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Hebrews 6:4 - 6:6
Hebrews 6:4 - 6-6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
I came across these verses a few minutes ago while doing an engine search on something entirely different. When I read the verses I was stunned. The few of you who know me ,know that I have a hard time with believing that God would except me back after walking away from Him or even accepting that I belonged in the first place. I read these verses over and over again and I cant see them meaning anything different than what they say. In one time in my life I thought I had tasted of the heavenly gift and was made partakers of the Holy Ghost. <--- not words I would have used but I did believe that I had beautiful dealings with the Holy spirit...
These verses must be why I always feel lost. If any one reads this and feels led to respond, it is my hope you respond with what you believe these scripture verses mean to you and hopefully not think I am wanting to talk about OSAS . Thank you for any replies. I am really upset about this. Is it now impossible for me?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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Janie,
If I may, I think being really upset about this is a really good reaction to have , it's also one that points to the fact that you aren't beyond redemption, forgiveness, and salvation....
I believe that this passage is talking about total and complete apostasy from the faith.
You cannot fall from grace and pardon if you still have the desire for pardon and grace. This is an impossibility unless the world is rolled up like a carpet today. It is a complete and utter rejection of Christ after enjoying all of His goodness and blessings.
I'm not sure if this verse is even relevent here, but it is to me: Matthew 12:45 - Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation.
I don't believe it means intellectually either...it says "and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to open shame."
Experienced it, tasted it.... I'm probably not much help, but Matthew 12:45 comes to my mind. I think that verse of Matthew is the outward appearance of godliness, but not the really true Godliness that flows forth from the heart.
Luke 9:62 also comes to mind...As well, Luke 17:32--Remember Lots wife.
Do you remember the story of David & Nathan helping him to see his offense? David was a "man after God's heart" & he did some horrible things, like adultry, lying, murder...I won't say whether I believe David was going to be saved while involved in these things, but what I WILL say is that David when confronted, understood & repented to God. He didn't make excuses, he just said I have sinned against the Lord God.
Janie,
I hope that you know what a beautiful Savior, a Redemptive Savior we have...I believe that you know this, but I want you to be confident and assured. You mean the world to me and you have taught me greatly...I hope someday to return the favor. I love you lil Sis, God is going to sweep you off of your feet!!!
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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I question this statement: "David was a "man after God's heart" & he did some horrible things, like adultry, lying, murder...I won't say whether I believe David was going to be saved while involved in these things, but what I WILL say is that David when confronted, understood & repented to God."
Why not? When was David going to be saved? Can't a truly saved person fall prey to such sins?
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I can't speak for Watchman but am going to anyways. She didn't say he couldn't be saved, she said she won't say whether he was saved during this time as if she has no clue & not knowing, she's not going to pass judgment on his salvation. Actually, she said whether he was "going" to be saved. I also took that statement as him being saved at that particular time of sinning as you. I feel she wasn't giving an opinion of whether or not he was saved. That's just what I got from it.
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I guess I think of King David as being saved before he committed these sins. In Psalm 51, David prays,
11 Cast me not away from your presence,
and take not your Holy Spirit from me.
12 Restore to me the joy of your salvation,
and uphold me with a willing spirit. ESV
In Romans 4:6-8 it says:
English Standard Version (ESV)
6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:
7 “Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven,
and whose sins are covered;
8 blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin.”
Paul was quoting David from this Scripture:
Psalm 32:1-2
New King James Version (NKJV)
The Joy of Forgiveness
A Psalm of David. A Contemplation.[a]
32 Blessed is he whose transgression is forgiven,
Whose sin is covered.
2 Blessed is the man to whom the Lord does not impute iniquity,
And in whose spirit there is no deceit.
David certainly needed restoring and forgiveness but the fact that he had God's Holy Spirit and was in God's presence prior to this has to mean something about his previous spiritual state. Under the Old Covenant people didn't receive regeneration -- the new birth -- but even then people were saved by grace through faith, as I understand.
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I totally understand what you're saying here. Not all the Psalms are in the right order. Now, I don't know if these spoken in this discussion are in chronological order. They definitely could be. I'm thankful that we have someone like David as an example so we can see that no matter how far away we may fall, He is always there to restore. If one doesn't belong to Him in the first place, He's reaching out to bring them into the fold.
And, yes, the OT also lived by faith. We have the museum of faith walkers in Hebrews 11.
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Psalm 51 opens with the heading, To the choirmaster. A Psalm of David, when Nathan the prophet went to him, after he had gone in to Bathsheba.
Whether Psalm 32 was written before or after David had gone in to Bathsheba isn't important. Those words are more about the blessing of when God does not impute iniquity to someone. David suffered consequences for the sins, including the loss of the baby.
Yes, in Hebrews 11 we see those of old who walked by faith. Saved by grace through faith and works follow.
Psalm 51 is often used to support that salvation can be lost, but I've never heard that David wasn't one of God's chosen and saved already, before he was with Bathsheba. I suppose it could be debatable.
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Well, we were talking about his salvation & my only point was that one could have possibly been written before his "salvation". So, I guess the importance in my mind was because of this.You know them by their fruits & you have to admit, his were quite rotten at the time. lol. Not saying he wasn't of God. Just a thought.
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Yes, we look at fruit as evidence of salvation. Philippians 1:6 and Romans 8:28. We are works in progress. At times people mess up badly. That's why these kinds of questions turn up, I guess. I've asked them, too. I'm still learning.
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Good night to you.
Perhaps these verses will encourage some readers. People do backslide.
Jeremiah 3:22-23
New King James Version (NKJV)
22 “Return, you backsliding children,
And I will heal your backslidings.”
“Indeed we do come to You,
For You are the Lord our God.
23 Truly, in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills,
And from the multitude of mountains;
Truly, in the Lord our God
Is the salvation of Israel. -
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