All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
S.O.A.P. 6
Greetings all,
I will continue to try something on TheNET. I would like to see if we can engage in a Bible study using the forums. I hope to simulate a small group setting, but realize that there will be lag time. Here are the parameters that we will work with ... and this is open to everyone.
1) We are attempting to work our way through the gospel of John.
2) We will not tolerate negative comments made about a person or persons.
3) We are using the S.O.A.P. approach which = Scripture - Observation - Application - Prayer.
... 3a) Scripture text from the Gospel of John using KJV (no copyright attached)
... 3b)Observations about the particular text. What is being said, what is going on, who is involved and what might be the points being made?
... 3c) Application of the text/teaching to our lives today.
... 3d) Prayer pertaining to that which we have sought to discern.
4) It is appropriate to ask questions along the way.
5) I operating as the facilitator and teacher of this online group/class, but want the open participation of others.
6) At the end of each week (Friday's) I will close the current one and start a new one.
This weeks discussion:
Joh 3:10-21 KJV Jesus answered and said unto him, Art thou a master of Israel, and knowest not these things? (11) Verily, verily, I say unto thee, We speak that we do know, and testify that we have seen; and ye receive not our witness. (12) If I have told you earthly things, and ye believe not, how shall ye believe, if I tell you of heavenly things? (13) And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven. (14) And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: (15) That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. (16) For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (17) For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (18) He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (19) And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. (20) For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (21) But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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There appears to be different definitions of growth, not just that it occurs at different rates. I see fruit as an end result from abiding and being nourished and watered, to blossoming, then bearing fruit, but even then the fruit must ripen. Others see fruit as instant formations.
I'm reading this today but I don't understand if God reserved the 7000 because they didn't bow to baal, or if by God's grace, God kept them from bowing. You have mentioned perseverance and preservation both existing together, so maybe both things are true in this passage, too, concerning the remnant. I'm seeking to understand. I will change my beliefs as God shows me.
Ro 11:1-6
11 I ask then: Did God reject his people? By no means! I am an Israelite myself, a descendant of Abraham, from the tribe of Benjamin. 2 God did not reject his people, whom he foreknew. Don't you know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah — how he appealed to God against Israel: 3 "Lord, they have killed your prophets and torn down your altars; I am the only one left, and they are trying to kill me" ? 4 And what was God's answer to him? "I have reserved for myself seven thousand who have not bowed the knee to Baal." 5 So too, at the present time there is a remnant chosen by grace. 6 And if by grace, then it is no longer by works; if it were, grace would no longer be grace. NIV
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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I see fruit as an end result from abiding and being nourished and watered, to blossoming, then bearing fruit, but even then the fruit must ripen. Others see fruit as instant formations.
Both are true. The fruit is instilled in us at new birth because we are indwelt by Holy Spirit and by virtue of our new nature in Christ we have these fruit from day one. Over time these fruit blossom and become visible to others, as well as to us. The evidence of the new life must begin to flow from us as we become more Christ-like.
Regarding the 7000. God does not distinguish a difference for us, but it would be safe to say that God preserved them and that they persevered.
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If it takes time for the fruit to be visible, then it isn't instant, and that's what I mean as far as people being fruit inspectors to assure themselves that they are or others are or aren't really saved. I'd rather look to what God's word says and what Holy Spirit is bearing witness to in my spirit for assurance of my salvation.
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Is 2 Cor 4:16 referring to the soul?
So we do not lose heart. Though our outer self is wasting away, our inner self is being renewed day by day. ESV
The spirit is a new creation, but what of the soul and body? -
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OK. We will disagree. I believe both are true. The fruit is absolute present in us and over time flows from us. We are babes that need to grow, but we are no less a child of God the moment we are born again than we are 50 years later.
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I'm not sure we truly disagree. I believe at new birth we are fully accepted into the Beloved and will never die again spiritually. What I'm saying is, even if the fruit is instantly in us, it doesn't visibly show instantly in everyone. It is disouraging to me to hear a message that my experience with being born again should include full experiential spiritual maturity. I don't know why we have to grow in Christ or why we can't simply take off the old self and put on the new self in one moment of time. I fully want that but for me it's a battle.
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The journey is lifelong with many bumps in the road.
Again, too often people make the mistake of suggesting that their story is the norm. Some experience amazing change at new birth while others grow at a slower rate. Neither are wrong, nor should one be viewed as the norm over the other. We are unique in creation and unique at new birth ... there is no one size fits all.
It is my opinion that what appears to be fast growth as well as what appears to be no growth usually turns out to be unhealthy. There is an area in-between that allows for safe fast growth and safe slow growth. I cannot give a specific detail of this POV, but acknowledge I have seen the fast burn out and the no growth never demonstrate any progression toward maturity.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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It is my opinion that what appears to be fast growth as well as what appears to be no growth usually turns out to be unhealthy.
I think Matthew 13 gives insight into this.
19 The seed that fell on the footpath represents those who hear the message about the Kingdom and don’t understand it. Then the evil one comes and snatches away the seed that was planted in their hearts.
I've heard many say they don't read the Bible because they don't understand it. And others say God gives us understanding. But in an instant? This says they didn't understand and the devil snatched the seed planted in their hearts. So the seed was sown but the understanding didn't immediately come and they quickly gave up. I didn't start understanding much of the Bible til I was starting my third reading. This is one reason I adamantly believe this to be vital from the start and tell people to make the time and find ways. Try another version. Listen to the Bible while doing other things. But you HAVE to make all effort to get in the Word. Understanding will come.
20 The seed on the rocky soil represents those who hear the message and immediately receive it with joy. 21 But since they don’t have deep roots, they don’t last long. They fall away as soon as they have problems or are persecuted for believing God’s word.
I believe this here can happen to many who grow too quickly. They accept Christ and are running the race but then are tried and tested and can't stand up under fire. As much as fire hurts and as much as we might beg God to deliver us from it, coming through it will enable us to stand firm.
22 The seed that fell among the thorns represents those who hear God’s word, but all too quickly the message is crowded out by the worries of this life and the lure of wealth, so no fruit is produced.
I've often questioned myself on this one. But I'm reminded even through financial difficulties I'm not lured away. It would be so easy to chase after something that would make life easier but those are things I didn't like when I gave them to God. And even when I couldn't see fruit others could. Yet some just slack off or fall away at this point. God places them in a good job and when the money comes in they see it as their own hard work and get selfish with it instead of using their position and resources for God's kingdom. Others get so worried because of trouble they fall away either thinking God must not love them or thinking they will never be able to overcome their sins...they throw in the towel.
23 The seed that fell on good soil represents those who truly hear and understand God’s word and produce a harvest of thirty, sixty, or even a hundred times as much as had been planted!”
Such a harvest needs good seed, good soil, plenty of sunshine and "water". Watered with the Word, fellowship and a desire to persevere so that the seed can grow to its full potential. -
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It is a good response, Seek, and I can see some of each soil in me in different areas of faith. The seed that would lead to trusting in God for protection has been the hardest for me to get to take deep root. The are other areas, too, but I probably won't be able to move forward until I learn to trust in this area.
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I can't tell you what will bring about that trust Amanda. For me it wasn't the unexpected check in the mail when I really needed it. Nor was it the raise. Nor the bonus or second bonus. It wasn't even the second raise. It should have been much sooner but broken trust needs mending. The last blow my mind bonus though? That one did it for me. I haven't been able to stop thanking Him or thinking on it with a ginormous smile.
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