All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
S.O.A.P. #5
Greetings all,
I will continue to try something on TheNET. I would like to see if we can engage in a Bible study using the forums. I hope to simulate a small group setting, but realize that there will be lag time. Here are the parameters that we will work with ... and this is open to everyone.
1) We are attempting to work our way through the gospel of John.
2) We will not tolerate negative comments made about a person or persons.
3) We are using the S.O.A.P. approach which = Scripture - Observation - Application - Prayer.
... 3a) Scripture text from the Gospel of John using KJV (no copyright attached)
... 3b)Observations about the particular text. What is being said, what is going on, who is involved and what might be the points being made?
... 3c) Application of the text/teaching to our lives today.
... 3d) Prayer pertaining to that which we have sought to discern.
4) It is appropriate to ask questions along the way.
5) I operating as the facilitator and teacher of this online group/class, but want the open participation of others.
6) At the end of each week (Friday's) I will close the current one and start a new one.
This weeks discussion:
John 3:1-9 KJV There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: (2) The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him. (3) Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. (4) Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? (5) Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. (6) That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. (7) Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. (8) The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit. (9) Nicodemus answered and said unto him, How can these things be?
Views: 370
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Amanda on
-
It needs to be said that few feel compassion for those who have emotional pain, especially when the pain is from an experience that happened in the past. I'm familiar with psychodynamic therapy, but I've only read about Theophostic. Yet, even in the therapy I've received, the goal was to grieve and to feel the pain and to get to the end of the hurt, where really healing will finally begin. If we feel anything when we see someone grieving about something from years ago, it's probably just ourselves experiencing a triggering of our own past pain, and that isn't true compassion. I've accepted that compassion isn't something I need from others. I used to want empathy, but I don't anymore. Sure, if something terrible just happened to someone, we ought to feel compassion for them. Yet, just like psychology teaches, people ought to be able to move on with their lives, no matter what. I've always liked this quote:
“Life is all memory, except for the present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going. ”
— Tennessee Williams
Anyway, I've gone off topic and I'm sorry. -
-
Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
-
Amanda,
The wind happens mysteriously, and so does being born again.
That is profound.............so true.
Here's my experience of coming to the Lord Jesus Christ in the late 60's......I was in my 30's.
Answering the invitation at church, I recited the public confession, was immersed, and welcomed into an independent Christian church. I came from a large denominational church. Now I became a member, with my new wife, in her church.
Here's the deal - After coming up out of the water.......I didn't feel any different.....people all around me, congratulating, hugging, rejoicing.......I just smiled and thanked them.
It even took a while before sanctification set in, and started changing my life. Things changed very s-l-o-w-l-y.
And Amanda, as I look back (which I have done many times), I really cannot tell when it was I was truly born again.........
As you say.......like the wind.....it's mysterious......when we're born again.
Thank you for sharing this.
Grace and Peace.
-
-
Greetings Brother and Sister,
IMO many believers/non-believers have problems with the words - "believe" and "works". This includes folks sitting in the pews each weekend.
Interesting passage in John 6: 28-30, " They said therefore to Him, "What shall we do, that we may work the works of God?"(29) Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (30) They said therefore to Him, "What then do You do for a sign, that we may see, and believe you? What work do You perform?" N.A.S.B..
Those people, like others for 2000 years, think in human terms when relating to Almighty God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
I still like James 2: 14-26 for an excellent word picture of faith (believe) and works. They go together like - a horse and carriage......love and marriage.......well, you get the idea.
I have a problem with the thought of Jesus, or God, doing 100% of the relationship.
Jesus said that a believer "shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment". ( From Matthew 22:37-38, N.A.S.B.).
My question is when we love someone like this......what do we do?.........How do we show this love?.......How do we let them know?.......How do we let the world know?
-
Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
-
Richard,
I think the key to your question is found in our motivation, which James also addresses. Do we seek to please God or appease God? The person living by a religious code will seek to appease God with their efforts and the one walking in covenantal relationship with Jesus will seek to please God. The difficult part for us as we watch others live their lives is that the external actions of both will look very similar … at least for a while and up to a point.
One key factor to watch in this is “love.” John states that they will know we are His disciples by our love for one another. The religious person will usually be void (or at least be lacking) of love, but because loving others is part of their religious code they will seek to show kindness and mercy as far as their code will allow it. On the other hand the one walking with Jesus will demonstrate love because it is the love of Christ flowing through them, the Spirit of God living in them.
It is always important to remember that life in Christ is not passive; it is a call to change and a call to action. He changes us and then we are called to make godly choices in our lives as He tells us to be holy as He is holy. For the one walking in the covenantal relationship the desire to make godly choices is driven by our love for Him and our desire to please Him.
Since it is difficult early on to tell the one walking in covenantal relationship apart from the religious person (wheat and tares) we must follow the Biblical teaching and be slow to put someone into a position of leadership. Time (as guided by the Holy Spirit) is an ally. For over time it will be revealed as to what the person’s motivation is and whether they actually love the brethren or simply tolerate them because the religious code dictates it. I will add one more thing. Some would say that we are not to judge, but especially in this instance where we are selecting people for leadership we need to examine them very carefully … for not all are called to lead or teach.
Lord Bless,
LT
-
-
I see what you're saying, and, I have often felt just tolerated, but must admit that I also have tolerated others, and, I know, according to John 13:34-35, we are to have love for one another, and Luke 6:32 says, “If you love those who love you, what benefit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. ESV
Yet, some of us find it difficult not only to feel love from others (not that we don't feel love FOR others) but also to show our love and express it TO others, as well as to accept love FROM others.
Love is an attribute of the fruit of the Spirit, but so is kindness, and mercy is a gift of the Spirit. But I know that love should become a visible fruit, eventually, as should all nine of the attributes. Naturally.
IMO How to spot the fake versus the real -- one will have only a nice show of pretty green leaves, while the other bears fruit without being forced. The feeling one has when happening to find no fruit among the green leaves can be similar to how Jesus felt when He was hungry but found the barren fig tree. Also, we have the verses of Luke 13:6-9. When I read those verses, I panic. Is there actually a time limit for repenting?
Please, don't think I'm only arguing. It's just that I'm not so sure that love (in the form of good deeds) is the litmus test for knowing wheat from the tares, but even if we could know who is who, it looks like God wants them to continue to grow together (I know you haven't suggested destroying the tares but others do attempt this at great harm to new seedlings, and that's one of the reasons why I'm very tempted to give up assembling altogether -- I don't know how to deal with tares) since pulling up tares could uproot the wheat, too. Matthew 13:24-30
From Luke 6, ESV
27 “But to you who are listening I say: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29 If someone slaps you on one cheek, turn to them the other also. If someone takes your coat, do not withhold your shirt from them. 30 Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31 Do to others as you would have them do to you.
32 “If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners love those who love them. 33 And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even sinners do that. 34 And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners, expecting to be repaid in full. 35 But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be children of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36 Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful.
-
-
When we find a teaching in Scripture on at least three occasions we can trust that it is a sound doctrine. Our love for the brethren is one such doctrine that is taught and it reveals whether we are really His (Keeping in mind that based on maturity our level of love may vary, but love must be present and exhibited in our life). Here are four teachings, two from Jesus, one from Paul and one from John and of course all by the inspiration of Holy Spirit.
Joh 13:34-35 NIV84 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. (35) By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another."
Mat 22:37-40 NIV84 Jesus replied: "'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' (38) This is the first and greatest commandment. (39) And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.' (40) All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
1Co 13:1-13 NIV84 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. (2) If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. (3) If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing. (4) Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. (5) It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. (6) Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. (7) It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. (8) Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. (9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part, (10) but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. (11) When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. (12) Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known. (13) And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love. (Emphasis mine)
1Jn 3:10-11 NIV84 This is how we know who the children of God are and who the children of the devil are: Anyone who does not do what is right is not a child of God; nor is anyone who does not love his brother. (11) This is the message you heard from the beginning: We should love one another.
Lord Bless,
LT
-
-
I understand that we are to have love for one another. What I'm saying is that it's difficult to tell the real from the counterfeit. Knowing if someone is genuine can be tricky. It's hard for me to discern if people really are or aren't what they seem. Not everyone has good discernment. Then you just have to learn the hard way :(
-
-
That is why in many cases it takes time to discern the truth, or for it to be revealed. If we look on the externals, which is what we do if we do not allow time to play a factor, we will make snap decisions instead of wise ones. Even with time on our side we might be fooled from time to time for a period of time, but our success rate will be greatly enhanced.
-
-
Richard,
To your specific questions at the end of your posting:
Walk with Jesus seeking to surrender to Him day by day allowing the Holy Spirit to live the life of Christ through us. The evidence cannot be a moment in time or one single event, but will be seen in the totality of the person's life over the long haul. One example, a person may dive on a live grenade to save his fellow soldiers lives. Some will call it love, but is it? Was it caused by duty? Was it caused by training? Was it caused by peer pressure? In essence, what was the motivation? I think it takes more than a snap shot to answer that question.
Lord Bless,
LT
-
-
Agreed. A snapshot won't do. 1 Timothy 4:12 mentions being an example to others "in word, in your way of life, in love, in spirit, in faith, and in purity" and that seems only for starters.
-
-
Amanda and LT,
Excellent words........
I'll agree to your meaningful posts with:
Jesus said, "You shall know them by their fruits.
Also, God knows the motivation of our hearts.......and that's a good thing, because He knows our hearts.
Grace and Peace.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- Next ›
Welcome to
All About GOD
The Good News
Meet Face-to-Face & Collaborate
© 2024 Created by AllAboutGOD.com.
Powered by
