All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Discussion on Discussions
1 Timothy from 2 through 6 discusses Godliness, instructions on worship, those in authority, qualifications of deacons and pastors, etc. In 6:3, Paul says: These are the things you are to teach and insist on. 3 If anyone teaches otherwise and does not agree to the sound instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ and to godly teaching, 4 they are conceited and understand nothing. They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels about words that result in envy, strife, malicious talk, evil suspicions 5 and constant friction between people of corrupt mind, who have been robbed of the truth and who think that godliness is a means to financial gain.
I began to wonder, are the discussions we tend to engage in here in keeping with this? Seems we often get so sidetracked on whether a person is always saved, whether or not we claim we're healed, whether or not depression is of God or not, what to say to homosexuals, etc. Mostly scripture tells us to proclaim the Gospel, which is proclaim Christ and what he's done for us. All the rest is geared toward church members toward OTHER church members and not towards unbelievers. We're to instruct one another in Godliness. All the side issues then, are they unhealthy interests in controversies and quarrels?
Is this discussion? LOL
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Actually much of what is written in the NT epistles is written to the child of God and deals with the manner in which we are to live and the proper function of the church (i.e. the one another principles). Thus, discussions are good and one key as to what is acceptable and right compared to unacceptable and wrong is seen in the the following warning "They have an unhealthy interest in controversies and quarrels." What is the motive for the discussion? Paul tells us elsewhere that we are to go on to deeper teachings and not just remain at the place where we started.
Questions are good when someone is truly seeking an answer and bad when the motive is to stir up controversies or seek to only prove one is right (pride).
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Many times we can even start a discussion seeking answers but it turns into quarreling. I think everyone has moments they can fall into it when strongly believing they're right.
I even searched commentary on this and yet it does seem Paul is talking of arguments over matters other than he was preaching and not to get caught up in quarrelling over unimportant matters. At least it spoke to me that way and yet I've not heard that taught before.
I've been so very busy that I haven't had time to be here but to be honest I was also feeling all the arguing viewpoints wasn't being productive and I needed to lessen my time in discussion anyway I guess for my own growth.
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I understand your point, though not in full agreement. Discussions can be, and are often, very healthy. The key, and one of the things I emphasize on AAG, is that we stay on topic and not begin to attack the poster personally (though we may question something regarding what they believe or have said).
There are some things that would have to be defined, because nothing seems to be so simple. What constitutes arguing? To some it is a strong disagreement to others it is much less and for others much more. Next, what is an important matter and what is less important or unimportant at all? Again a huge variety of answers would be given. For me on AAG I can give you what I go by as the coordinator. 1) Any question asked seeking an answer is not unimportant. The person who truly wants to know has a reason for asking and often that question will open the door to a greater question. 2) Disagreements are a part of life, but we must show respect for the person.
I really like the iron sharpens iron verse because in order for the piece to be sharpened it has to come into contact with the other piece and in the sharpening process there will be friction that improves both pieces.
The idea of discussing things is all a part of learning.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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What I have found is, that sometimes arguments start in discussions, when a person reads something in these discussions that is contrary to what they heard another person say” that they have great respect for” convinced them of just the opposite of what’s being discussed, especially on doctrinal issues. But one thing I have learned over the years is that once a person has learned, or found truth, these metaphysical religions which are nothing more than an ideology born of the senses has no appeal to them whatsoever.
I had a situation one time with a co-worker that said “what makes you think you are always right and everyone else is wrong” I asked him, why would you be arguing with me, if you didn’t think the same way?
I would have to admit though, that sometimes I wonder if the one posting the questions has ever read the bible. And if so, are they reading it intellectually, and it just doesn’t align with their situations, or circumstances, especially with the covenant or promises that God made with Abraham and his seed, not seeds as many, but the one seed which is Christ. When we don’t understand this one thing, that the promises were made to “Christ” and not to us as individuals, will cause much controversy.
When I read the bible I receive it as if it is God speaking directly to me, though sometimes it seems we/I am taking it out of context in that particular passage, but in context with the whole of the bible. So I get misunderstood many times.
JB
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To your first point (paragraph), I agree it is important to know what you believe and why you believe it, rather than standing on I believe it because that is what so-and-so believes.
To the second point, it is important that we remain teachable. We naturally will believe that what we believe is right, but must be willing to adjust if shown we are wrong. Many are unwilling to accept that what they believe has been in error.
To the third point, I would tend to agree, but I try to think that the motives for asking the question are good.
To the last point, I agree.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thanks LT. When I am discussing something, I never take what others say as concrete, or truth till I have studied it out for myself. And I usually advise others to do the same when I say something they are not sure is true. I am a man, so don’t take my word for it as truth. Study to show yourself approved unto God. Amen? I am really finding this to be so important, to know what and why we believe what we do. I’ve been talking to, or sharing with a couple that say they were crib Catholics, I’m assuming they mean they were both raised Catholic from birth. I did a little grading around their new building on their farm, and she had no trouble finding out that I was a Christian; that usually goes for about anyone I work for, or with. When I quoted scripture in our conversation, she became very interested and invited my wife and I to dinner at a local restaurant to get a little better acquainted with her and her husband to discuss a couple of areas of concern, like being born again, and new creation realities. I am glad now for my studies in the deeper things of God; that is by the Spirit and not by intellect, which I am very limited anyway. Ha. However they have so ingrained in themselves the way of the “Catholic religion” that they can’t understand the spiritual aspects of the bible. She even sent a PDF file showing all the various sacraments, the history of the church, the perpetual virginity of Mary, to whom they say they pray to, believing that she is sitting next to Jesus and making intercession for them. That she ‘Mary’ or her mother were exempt from the original sin. They were telling us that they were having a protestant pastor being converted or joining, or being baptized into the Catholic Church. Obviously someone hasn’t found the truth of God’s Word, wouldn’t you say? However we have been invited to their house, along with that pastor for a dinner to discuss the Word. My suspicions are, they are going to try to convert us to Catholicism. So to be fair with them, I have studied their religion quite extensively in the past couple of weeks, even about the Rosary, on the internet with their priests just to see why they do and believe the way they do. I found they will say “Hail Mary” 53 times during that, so-called meditation of Jesus. And as I said before; these sense ruled, and man-made religions, have no appeal to a truly born again Child of God.
I am looking forward to the meeting, I even told her, that if she wished, she could have her Priest there as well. Also the Guy I work part time for now is Catholic and very interested, asking if I think they are wrong by praying to Mary. I don’t try to preach, I just let the Word find its way into our conversations. I’ve learned to lean on the ever-lasting arm of God. The Word of truth.
Just wanted to let others know just how important it is to make your calling and election sure, for as the bible says in 2Pet.1:1-11, especially vs.10, to make your calling and election sure, for if you do these things, you shall never fall. Amen?
Blessings,
JB
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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What is meant when one is said to be reading the bible intellectually? Do you mean reading it just to be aware of what it says, such as one might read any other world literature, or even like you are reading up on Catholicism?
If that is what is meant by it, then I'm not reading it intellectually. If it means something else, then please tell me, so that I can discern more properly. Thanks.
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Yes Amanda, They read the bible as though it were a common book, and this is the reason for spiritual failure, and the reason why in daily life, the believer breaks down, why the enemy has no problem in over throwing them in a crisis. There seems to be no life in the Word for them, it’s just another informational guide to heaven.
I sold a piece of land next to me to a guy, and found out later that his dad bowled on my team several years ago, so we had something in common, and talked about it several times. One day as I was about to go in the restaurant as he “his dad” was coming out, and he was telling me that his son, had mentioned that we knew each other, we must have been talking about the bible, and he proceeded to tell me that he had just finished reading the bible through. I thought of course, that he must have been born again, so I asked him, and he said oh no I just like to read the stories, about the different things that happened. I was set back somewhat, because I wondered how anyone could take enough interest in a book like the bible and not get some sort of inspiration from it, other than just a good read. This happened also with my neighbor on the other side of me, about 3 lots down, an older man working out by the road, I stopped and began to talk a little about various things, till I said something regarding the bible, and he asked if I liked to read, I told him I did, I read secular books different than I read the bible. He said he had a book he wanted me to read, called “The Wonderings” I don’t remember the author, but it was about the captivity of the children of Israel in Egypt, to the Exodus. I ask him the same thing, if he was born again, he snickered a little and said no, so I asked him what that book meant to him, he said nothing, that it was all fiction, something that never actually happened. So we see that, though the bible “The Word of God” is a spiritual book, He said “the Words that I speak unto you, they are Spirit and they are life. Jo.6:63” they still remain just words, unless they are read and accepted, in and by faith. God speaks to us through His Word, Ps.103:20 says, “Bless the Lord, ye his angels that excel in strength, that do His commandments, hearkening unto the voice of His Word.” So I must wonder, why the Holy Spirit didn’t speak to them while reading the Word. And the only thing I come up with is, Ro.10:14, “How then shall they call on Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him of whom they have not heard? And how shall they hear without a preacher?” but the next verse says “how shall they preach except they be sent” Many times we miss an opportunity to tell someone about the Lord, when we question our intuition to speak at times like this; not remembering Phil.2:12, 13 ….Work out your own salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God which worketh in you both to will and to do of His good pleasure. So it is with the Word, when we read it with our intellect rather than our spirits, we will not get Truth, just stories. But unless the Holy Spirit speaks the Word to us, we will often get confused, trying to align the Word with our circumstances, and performances.
Blessings,
JB
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Thanks for clarifying. My view of the Word of God has never been that it's just a common book.
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JB,
Amen. Will be praying for your meeting. Please update me as you are able and see fit.
Lord Bless,
LT
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