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Genuine Faith against, the “losing your salvation” notion
I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses. So there is a question, how do any of you see these things? Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Brother Chris,
Amanda and LT.........
Ditto to what she and he said.
Blessings to you, Bro.
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Permalink Reply by Judith on
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Hi Chris,
Amen you are so right, The true proof of our Salvation, is the fruit that people see in our lives, not just on a Sunday, but every day. Our walk with Jesus Christ is a lifelong journey of repentance and faith.
God bless you brother.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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I have not had any time to engage in any discussions or blogs in a very long time but this discussion was on the front page of my mobile view and caught my attention and I've just spent the last hour reading it on tiny phone screen. So before I loose my eyesight I wanted to briefly touch on something specifically to Confused.
Joyce Myers talks often of how she used to be upset about spilt milk and so on. And she says thank God she's not where she used to be. When you're not seeing fruit are you trying to find it in a person in a year? two? three? Joyce speaks of all the years it took her. Satan would have us look for what "isn't" there so we question.
I'm going on 4 years myself and have begun seeing what I consider small changes in me but others have remarked on changes they see in me. I think that is because I, like you, heard lies for so long. The power of life and death is in the tongue so Satan starts on some he knows God wants to use at an early age. He causes others to tell us how worthless we are until its a part of us. He has you so convinced you're not, and possibly never can be, saved. Yet you worry about the salvation of others? Some might see that as judging I see it as God using you despite what you think of yourself.
As for the parable you mentioned Amanda, the inability to trust is instilled early on. God works in us to heal that. There us another parable of the wheat and tares and how the tares could grow to choke out the wheat. Consider also that the wheat can grow to choke out the tares...being the tares that grew inside us for many years.
I would like Confused to ponder something awhile.
Say you're raised by abusive and demeaning parents and told you are worse than nothing for 12 years. The state takes you and places you in foster care with wonderful people who say you're smart, beautiful and special? How many times do you think they'll need to tell you this before it begins to override 12 years of bad programming? God IS those foster parents. To the rude and prideful child He might tell them to come down off their high horse. To the grateful child raised to know they're loved He might call them immediately to ministry. To the hurting and unloved He is forever reminding He has loved you with an everlasting love. He is all things to all people.
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At a computer for a second. I wanted to respond to your question Chris. I too had difficulty with OSAS. But I now believe in it. The question however is....WHO is saved? Many use OSAS and think they got saved because they went to the altar once. But there is a thing about TRUE repentance. TRUE repentance brings Godliness. If no Godliness comes, it may be they were never truly repentant. To those who use it to say they can keep on doing what they're doing without their conscience being bothered, I remind you of Paul to the church of the man in the church sleeping with his father's wife. We're to treat them as pagans. Perhaps they weren't truly repentant. Perhaps God is still working on them. Time will tell.
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Seek ye first (Char),
AMEN............
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I have read these (or most) of these replies time & again continuously praying about whether or not to respond. Both sides have equally backed their belief up with Scripture. When I read this devotion this morning, it made me think of watchman & what she's possibly trying to say. I may be wrong & feel free to correct me anyone.
WHATEVER HAPPENED TO REPENTANCE?
by David Wilkerson
[May 19, 1931 – April 27, 2011]
Whatever happened to repentance? You rarely hear the word mentioned in most
churches today. Pastors seldom call for their congregations to mourn and grieve
over wounding Christ by their wickedness.
Instead, the message we hear from many pulpits today is, “Just
believe. Accept Christ, and you’ll be saved.” The text used to justify
this message is Acts 16:30-31. In this passage, the apostle Paul was being held
in jail when suddenly the earth shook and all the cell doors opened. The jailer
immediately thought all the prisoners had fled, which meant he faced execution.
In despair, he drew his sword and was about to kill himself when Paul and Silas
stopped him, assuring him no one had escaped.
Seeing this, the man fell down before the apostles and cried out, “Sirs, what
must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou
shalt be saved, and thy house” (Acts 16:30-31).
As we read this passage, it is important to remember that the jailer was on the
verge of suicide, with sword in hand. He was already at a point of
repentance—on his knees, broken and trembling before the apostles. So his
heart was truly prepared to accept Jesus in genuine faith.
In the gospel of Mark, Christ tells His disciples, “He that believeth and is
baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned” (Mark
16:16). It is clear from what Jesus says here that salvation is found in simply
accepting Him and being baptized.
However, Jesus prefaces His statement with this word: “Go ye into all the
world, and preach the gospel to every creature” (verse 15). He is saying, in
essence, that before people can believe in Him, the gospel must first be
preached to them.
And what is this gospel Jesus refers to? It is the gospel that Jesus Himself
preached—the gospel of repentance!
Think about it. What was the first message Jesus delivered after He emerged
from the temptation in the wilderness? Scripture says, “From that time Jesus
began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand”
(Matthew 4:17).
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Wikipedia states that repentance is the activity of reviewing one's actions and feeling contrition or regret for past wrongs, and that it generally involves a commitment to personal change and resolving to live a more responsible and humane life. In religious contexts it often involves an act of confession. This typically includes an admission of guilt, a promise or resolve not to repeat the offense; an attempt to make restitution for the wrong, or in some way to reverse the harmful effects of the wrong where possible.
Websters states repentance is to feel or show that you are sorry for something bad or wrong that you did and that you want to do what is right.
So if we accept Christ, why would we do it unless we were repentant?
About.com Christianity states it well: Repentance can be shallow, such as the remorse we feel because of fear of punishment (like Cain) or it can be deep, such as realizing how much our sins cost Jesus Christ and how his saving grace washes us clean (like Paul).
So there's a "true" repentance that leads to Christ. Some would give sacrifices or do good, not because they were repentant or because they wanted to do good or follow Christ, but they wanted to appear justified to escape judgment. True repentance is going to mean that things we used to do or want are going to become undesirable to us. That we will want what Christ wants more and more. That the more we walk with Him, the more we'll realize how bad we were, that we'll keep desiring to change more and more into His likeness.
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Dear Char and Tammy,
Bless your pea-pickin' hearts.
There's no doubt in my mind.........it's all about repentance. A true repentant heart is once saved- always saved.
This is exactly what Hebrews 6:4-8 is all about. This critical matter of eternal salvation must be approved and accepted by Almighty God.......not man.
This question will go on until the cows come home.........or Jesus's second coming, whichever occurs first.
I'm convinced.....once a person truly repents....is sanctified.....there is a lock on eternity, and the saved person knows it in their heart......OSAS. Amen.
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Hey Richard, I grew up on a farm and I can tell you it is going to be a long time before the cows come home. It is a good imagery as you do have to round them up. Sometimes, Jesus has to go after those who are His since they go astray and have so many problems finding their way back.
For me, I think every person needs to have the confidence that Jesus will get them home. For some of us, that is quite a task. I am confident, however, He will complete that task. That is part of His job as our Savior. He will save us from all our sin and get us home. So many feel their salvation becomes their responsibility once they have it. They work and work to keep it. Working is good but has no effect on whether we are saved or not. I wish all could meet our Savior Jesus. I am resting in Him. I do not work at all for my salvation. Amanda spoke of the Sabbath rest. This is the rest that we have in Christ. It is a blessed experience.
I struggle with so many things. I have a grandson who is struggling with eczema. He is in constant pain. I have asked God to heal him but he is still suffering. I worry about how much more he can take. I must admit that I do get upset that he is not healed. I am a terrible sinner. I actually find myself questioning God. I am very repentant of that but I am a real human with real human weaknesses. If I didn't have a Savior I would be lost and like so many cows, I would never find my way home.
Jesus came to save me of all my sins. I am now eternally saved. He will discipline me for my sins but I will never be tossed out of His family. If I lose faith, He will gift me more. My salvation is complete not because of anything I have done or will ever do. It is all because of my Savior Jesus.
We must get our focus off of ourselves. We are all HUMAN with human weaknesses. We cannot succeed in ourselves. We can only be saved through Him.
I am here not bragging on myself but bragging on my Savior. I have not done anything worthy of what I have. I have no idea why I am saved but I know I am. Jesus saved me for some reason that I know not. I do believe in Him but don't even take credit for that. I know His Word is true and wonder why so many do not believe.
Forgive me but I am enjoying my eternal salvation. He did sanctify me wholly. I did nothing. I am overwhelmed. I feel extremely sorry for those that are saved that don't know that they are saved. So many still do believe they could have that salvation taken from them based on their inability to keep it. That has to be so terrifying. It is terrifying. I was once there.
I'm with you. OSAS. Amen.
Thanks, Char, for the abbreviation.
And yes, Richard, Jesus will come before those cows come home. Thanks for reminding me of my boyhood days.
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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I have picked peas. Known others who have farms. {I am just trying to "fit in"}
Roy your Grandson is in our Prayers and thoughts. I know constant pain, as most of you know. Yet, I am older and cannot know his, yours, and the rest of your family and friends pain. "I must admit that I do get upset that he is not healed. I am a terrible sinner. I actually find myself questioning God." Roy I do not think you are a "terrible sinner." I have shared in the past about my times when I have been angry with God. I believe having those thoughts and trying to hind them from God, is wrong. It takes courage to share the words you have shared. I also believe that courage comes from your Knowledge of your Salvation.
As I have read and shared in this discussion, I have shared many thoughts. For me I guess I would like to add these thoughts. I have been Born Again, Baptized in Jesus and The Spirit for, 38+ yrs. } As I consider the words Born Again, in the eyes of one who is maturing in The Lord, I believe those two words sums much of it up. I also would like to join Roy's words,"I am enjoying my eternal salvation. He did sanctify me wholly. I did nothing. I am overwhelmed."
I only know His Grace. I might have already said this, but I am known for reiteration. How I grow in this Knowledge does, change me. I am unable to deserve Salvation, however as I grow I do and I believe I should honor this Gift. This is why and how I change my actions; my behavior; attitude. To be Renewed, to mature in Him, I see things like I need to feed my spirit man and not my flesh. I want to seek how to bring Him Glory. If He is able to use one like me, He is able to use anyone.
I had to leave another discussion early, I do again. Bless you all.
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