All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Genuine Faith against, the “losing your salvation” notion
I have never felt easy with the statement, “losing your salvation,” or “once saved always saved.” Both are statements are made by human pride. Many who say, “once saved always saved.” seem to act anyway they want. The words Genuine Faith are connected with genuine repentance. Genuine Faith is Led by The Spirit. I will share more with responses. So there is a question, how do any of you see these things? Yet, if you truly are saved, Fruit is produced.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Chris,
In the last few posts, we were discussing the possibility that the people in Matthew 7 are lying to Jesus about the good works they've cited as having done in His name. Like the two in Acts 5, are they merely misrepresenting themselves as having done things that appear to be good, even righteous, and hiding the real truth? The two in Acts 5 were told that they hadn't just lied to man, but to God (v. 4). As I think more about it, I realize that the Pharisees also misrepresented themselves as being good and righteous, but they actually weren't keeping God's laws because Jesus reprimands them several times for transgressing the commandments (Matthew 15:3-9; John 7:19; Matthew 23:28) as well as for making it look like they were righteous to people. Therefore, lawlessness in Matthew 7 may very well be hypocrisy -- not really keeping God's commandments but trying to appear righteous before men.
That's all.
I suppose I think about the Pharisees when I read Matthew 7 because that's probably who they are -- and people like them -- but they do tend to be self righteous.
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However, in the Matthew 7 text, they are guilty of lawlessness but hypocrisy isn't mentioned. There seems to be a distinction between lawlessness and hypocrisy (Matthew 23:28) but both are connected.
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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JB and Amanda
Thank you for asking. I think maybe I read the posts, in a "dim" light. I was not sure if, some thought I did not know or respect, "The Name of Jesus," or The Power that backs up His Name. Or, if The Name of Jesus lacked The Power I have always leaned upon. Forgive me for I think I may have judged wrongly.
Yet, to the question in Matt 7. I do not know how they could have done what, is stated. It has been a question of mine for a very long time. However, when Amanda posted the question, I saw the verses in a different light as never before. Their only defence was the works they had done, not a word about the relationship; their faith with and in Jesus. I have always wondered how they could have operated in The Spirit, yet hear the words,"I never knew you!" And I only have the answer I shared.
I have been working extra hard on verses like, " 36 I tell you that on the day of judgment people will have to account for every careless word they speak. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matt 12:36-37
10 But you, why do you criticize your brother? Or you, why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before the Tribunal of God. 11 For it is written: As I live, says the Lord, every knee will bow to Me, and every tongue will give Praise to God. 12 So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Rom 14:12 That is why I asked and shared my confusion. For I hold in high regard, those whose posted the words that, caused my confusion.
Lord Bless and Keep you All
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No worries, Chris. I had mentioned in my post to Richard, that I don't see why people assume these people are lying because, to me, they seem very sincere as they try convincing Jesus that He ought to know them based on the works they've done, or think they've done in His name. They are guilty of lawlessness. I'm not sure if they are lying or are hypocrites, but they are guilty of lawlessness. I don't know anymore than what the text says, but it's definitely positive that they have no relationship with Jesus. As we look at passages of Scripture, we must remember not to take even one single word out of context. So looking at the context of Matthew 7 and the before and after chapters, there is certainly a lot of room to go deeper and see more truth. Could it simply be that their lawlessness is failure to believe and receive His gospel, His message of faith and Him as Lord and Savior? That's another good question IMO. We know that keeping the law never saved anyone. Without Jesus we are all lawless no matter how well we keep commandments because we can't keep them without error.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Chris,
One of the interesting things in Matthew 7 is that these guys were making proclamations about themselves. They tell the Lord "Did we not ..." do the various things they mention. The Lord never agrees, nor does He even respond to their comment directly. What we do know is that Jesus proclaims that He never knew them. This simple truth of "never knowing them" reveals that they did not actually do these things in Jesus name (meaning in the power and presence of the Holy Spirit), but rather went through motions attaching a name, but His name is only of true value in this context to us when we are in covenantal relationship with Him. Thus, they actually thought they were doing it in the name of Jesus, but were only doing it in their own strength. A good parallel to this is found in Acts 19 where we find the seven sons of Sceva. They went around casting out demons, or so they thought, until one day they met a real demon and found out that just using the name as a calling card was useless to them. Thus, in Jesus name really means "in Jesus" and not just some attachment to our work as if applying a label.
Food for thought.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Very true, LT. Many are under the impression that their good works mean they are saved, and they actually are doing good things, or think they are (and I'm sure the enemy is good at duping people into thinking they're doing these kinds of things) but they don't really know Jesus and He doesn't know them because they haven't received Jesus. In John 8 Jesus mentions that Abraham did what was right, did good works, but that was before the law of Moses. The will of God is far more than just commandment keeping. In Matthew 7 I see people who reject Jesus, like the Pharisees did, in this life, and in that day, when they stand before Him, they want to persuade Him that their works should still be enough. They seem to say they still shouldn't need Him.
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39 They answered him, “Abraham is our father.” Jesus said to them, “If you were Abraham's children, you would be doing the works Abraham did.
40 but now you seek to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. This is not what Abraham did. John 8, ESV
Abraham loved Jesus and believed He told the truth. Abraham believed Jesus.
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Rom_4:3 What does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Gal_3:6 Consider Abraham: "He believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness."
Jas_2:23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
His obedience followed his faith.
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Those who believe their good works are saving them, are rejecting Jesus, too, aren't they? It seems so to me.
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LT and and all others
I want to Thank you all for sharing your thoughts in this discussion. Many views and ideas have been shared and my hope was/is, that as part of The Body, in The Spirit and through our Faith in Jesus we edified one another.
My thoughts about Matthew 7 as we look at the entire chapter, even previous chapters. Which are part of The Sermon on the Mount. To the vv 21-23 tie into the beginning of the discussion. No matter what we do or can do, it is Only our faith in Jesus that matters. I do not believe anyone would be able to tell a lie when, they are face to face with Jesus in Heaven. After we told that we can get back up, (every knee shall bow) to be in The Presence of God The Father, God The Son, and God The Spirit, we will fall on our face before them. Then told to rise, I am unable to believe we will be able to lie, when our hearts are seen clearly by Them. I don't think this scenario will or ever happen, anymore then the builders who, built on The Rock (Jesus) faith in Jesus, or built on the sand (faith in self). I just see Jesus saying what most of have been agreeing about. It is our faith in Jesus, not ourselves that enable us to reach and then walk through Those Gates.
LT I agree completely about the parallel of the seven sons of Sceva. I have always shared my belief about operating in The Spirit. The problem the brothers had was saying, “I command you by the Jesus that Paul preaches!" To operate in The Spirit is based on humility, understanding, knowledge, obedience, and faith in Jesus, as well as, The Spirit leading. This is for some how we are able to serve The Lord. None of those things will get us where we desire. As you and all the others, some may have used different words, yet I trust all have the knowledge that it is, our faith in Jesus which affects our change, the spirit man grows stronger, the outer (flesh) man diminishes.
Again, Thank you all for sharing.
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