All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Is Obedience to God necessary for salvation?
I like to read all the replies here, they are very insightful and thoughtful.
The reason for this question, is that I've read more than one reply that states that there is nothing left for us to do regarding salvation. Is this biblical?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Rest for our weary souls, Roy. It's beautiful, isn't it? Sin is intolerable. God's moral law is valid. God's Word is without error and is infallible. It is the absolute authority on every issue. Just because the President endorses same sex marriage and declares them legal doesn't change God's Word. Sin is sin and we aren't ever to find it acceptable in any way. Thank God for the gift of Jesus, our Savior, and His love and forgiveness.
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Permalink Reply by ribbon on
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Roy.
Everybody and their kindergartner would know I am not more knowledgeable than anyone not even their dog. Please don't make fun of me on that. I cnnot help my lack of knowledge. You may not condone sin.. Im sure you don't.... but many Christians do defend it and then blame God. I have heard them say I sin because God didn't set me free from it. I drink because God hasn't helped me. I want to quit smoking because God wont put the cigarette out for me ... I lust for my neighbors because God has not chosen to intervene with my thoughts ect ect ect . I am not saying these people aren't saved. But I am saying that soooo many people blame God for their lack of obedience. I was one of them. I cussed even while thinking I was saved. My excuse was God would have tp clean my mouth. As far as staying focused on others sin.... I normaly don't except for in this topic of obedience. Plus me defending myself .Plus anytime I hear of a preacher being perverted yes I judge and focus on them. But really yall I am not the type of person that sit around and focused on others sin. Even before I started going to church I didn't. Unless it was done against me or mine. I am trying to stay on topic of is obedience necessary.... I understand what yall are saying that only Jesus saves by grace through faith. I believe that too but here comes my focus again....... I don't believe if people continue in the same sinful lifestyle they are saved. Man , the other day I was thinking about Gods judgement... I was thinking about the way I am and was... talk about knees knocking together.. That is a scary thought. I was thinking also that even if I were to be saved ... having to face God with all my ugly layed out there... My every idol word <--------that's a tremendously scary thought. Plus my every thought. Yes I am afraid of the almighty God. I heard that even if your sin has been confessed that God still lays everything out there including our ugly words and thoughts. I have no idea why I a telling yall this. Anyway I do believe that God shoved me away and there iis no hope and I believe His word He will have mercy on who He will have mercy. Roy before I stop here.... I can not remember King David. The name seems familiar. He must be old testament. I stopped reading the old testament even when going to church. God seemed too mean as did some of His followers that He loved. Like the man who was going to murder a woman whom he said was a whore. Apparently this was their way. He only spared her life after learning that he himself was the father to her baby. I hear that God is the same as yesterday and today. This was Gods man. I had asked someone about that... they said it was because of thm not taking in someone they would have to feed. Maybe I am focusd on the big bad and ugly. But if I were in that day I may have been murdered by Gods people also and He is the same today as yesterday. Yall ... no need to reply. I am overyly tired and may seem stupider than my regular stupid. Anyway thank you for responding and trying to help me see what yall see. Plus Roy I wish you would blog sometime of your struggle when you were a preacher as you mentioned.
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Janie,
When I speak of you being more knowledgeable than I, it is probably true in very many areas. Some of the things you speak of, you are more knowledgeable that I since you have been in places I have never been. There are so many things I cannot speak of. I am not making fun of you. I am certainly aware of some of the limitations I have in certain areas. Also, I do not consider myself to be one ounce better than you. You must certainly be beginning to pick up on that. But, when it comes to struggling with these horrible feelings of not being good enough for His Kingdom, I am very knowledgeable in that area. I have been through some very difficult times. I reached the point of refusing to eat until something was resolved in my life. If I couldn't quit sinning, then I was willing to die. I am a professional in that area. I know what it is to struggle against the flesh.
King David was a man greatly loved by God. God spoke of His love for David. He also made David the ancestor of our Lord and speaks of His throne as being the throne Jesus would reign upon. In God's Kingdom, this a a very great man. But, David had big problems with sin. One day he saw a beautiful married woman, summoned her to his palace, had sex and then sent her home. When he learned that she was pregnant because of his lust, he called her husband home (who was faithfully serving his king on the battle field) and told him to go home and sleep with his wife. The man refused stating that he could not do such a thing when his men were dying in battle. David got him drunk and again tried to send the man home to his beautiful wife. The man still refused. David then had the man killed and took his wife as his own.
So, why did God call David a man after his own heart? Why did God love David so much? God certainly did not approve of David's actions. Why did He love him so much? The reason is simple: David was a believer in God. David loved God in spite of his weaknesses. The truth is: David was no worse than any of the rest of us. None of us have the power to carry out such actions but we are just as bad. None of us have any room to boast about ourselves. Janie, we are all in the same boat as you. I know you might think you are worse than the rest of us but I guarantee that you are not. God loves you so much because you believe in Him. You are not one bit worse than any of the rest of us. Perhaps you have carried out actions that I have not but you are no worse than I. God's love for us is not based on how good we are. I am so glad for that. We are children. Jesus died to take away all my sin.
Even now, you continue to talk about other people as to whether or not they are saved. Forget the other people. Leave that up to God whether or not they are saved. When we get to heaven we are going to see murderers, fornicators, adulterers, homosexuals, liars, thieves - the worse people you can imagine - they will be there.
What you won't see are people that think they deserve God's love - people that speak of their success in overcoming sin and feel that they have earned the right to enter into heaven. I personally feel that God would rather go to bars than some of our churches. He likes people like you and me that know we are no good. I can tell you that you are one of His favorites. I know you do not believe that but I guarantee to you that I am right in this. David also felt this way. But he came to understand God's grace. My only purpose is to get you to see what he saw. David understood that there were some people that God would never count their sins against them. You are one of them. I guarantee it. You will never have to answer for your grievous sins. Maybe you deserve to be called on the carpet at the end of your life, but you will not. You will be ushered into God's glory and never a word will be spoken about any of your failures. You will be treated as royalty. You will be placed in a position of high favor. Janie, this is going to happen as sure as I am sitting here. You will never be able to get away from Him. I tell you, you might as well go ahead and submit to His love. He will never let you go.
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Amanda,
No, a thousand times 'NO." I should not speak of such things. Those are not the things that make me a success. By the way, I could not find that thread to answer below your comments and starting over.
I don't want anyone to admire me for anything that has been done through me. Do I need to tell you how terrible I am? I do not like to speak of those things. But, I certainly could. I am no better off today than I was the day I received Him. I know, I grew up thinking that the more I did the more rewards I would receive. Wow! I begin to work to get stars in my crown. I wanted those rewards. O, I wanted to hear my Lord say, "Well done, Roy." I also wanted to hear Him brag just a little on me. O my - how sinful I am! I wanted the Lord to line us up with me towards the front. I knew I could never sit on his right or left but I wanted to be close to the front. I am so sinful. I do not want to speak of this. I wanted recognition. I wanted Him to acknowledge me before the others.
Amanda, my success is Jesus Christ. We will all be placed in a seat of honor. But, it will never be because of anything we have done or stopped doing. It is good that we might actually overcome a sin in our lives but that is not my ultimate goal. My goal is to know Him more and more. O, we want Him to recognize us. We work so hard for Him. That is good! But, He just wants us to know Him. Are you a Martha or a Mary. I used to be a Martha but now a Mary. Now, when I work, I do not work for anything. I work to get the job done. I work that children would not be taught Satan's philosophy of evolution. I work that they might know how much God loves them. I work because His love is so great in me I can't help it. I am not working to earn anything for I realize I already have it all. But, that just makes me work all the more but my work is much more efficient. I am not wasting time focusing on myself. I no longer count victories. I do not count how many stars I might receive. My crown is already full.
You are a great teacher. I do not need to tell you any of these things. I just needed to make sure that all know that I do not consider myself successful because of any of the things that others might consider successful. My success is that I know Jesus in a world that has rejected Him. I know the Creator of this world. I know the One that brought all things into existence. I belong to Him. I am greatly loved by Him. I am a success because of this: Jesus is my Savior and He loves me. This I know.
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Roy ,
I will reply to what you said to me later on.... but I had to stop in and say that your above comment to Amanda made me laugh and loud. My neighbors may know I am home now....... I am always quiet. I am sure you didn't intend for what you said to be humorous but the way you said it was funny. lol
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Roy,
I have worked in order to not end up being a cast away. Sadly, I always feared God would tire of my constant failures and tell me to depart from Him -- cast me away. :'(
I really wasn't trying to win rewards or recognition, as you aimed, but I did think I needed to win God's approval and love.
Some of the lies that I've believed about God and myself are: My prayers are not heard. God can't use me. I'm not good enough. I can't forgive myself. I can never change. I'm worthless. I can't meet God's expectations. I'm not worth loving. I can't measure up. I'm inadequate. I'm a failure. There's no use in going on, no purpose for my life.
I know it is the truth that sets us free and that means God is showing me the lies I have believed and then showing me the truth and I'm also learning about who I am in Christ.
It is a slow process, and healing from the past is difficult, too, and, for some, I think it must not even be possible. It is common that adults will continue to feel the same powerlessness that they felt in childhood. I was powerless as a child. Things have happened to me as an adult over which I was powerless, too.
People have said that's just God breaking me. I don't want to believe that it's just been God breaking me. I've always felt broken anyway. I don't know. I don't understand. I already know I can't go on living without God, and, I feel the same way as you, I'm nothing without Him.
I do seek to walk in His righteousness and holiness. I know I have none of my own. All my righteousnesses are only as filthy rags.
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On the other hand, He does see value in us. What is it that He sees? Why did He choose us? We feel we are the worst of the whole litter but it is us He chose. Why did He choose You Amanda? What is the value He sees. He saw you as so valuable, it was worth it to Him to give all He had to give. Read this and see yourself as the pearl:
Matt 13:45-46 "Again, the kingdom of heaven is like a merchant looking for fine pearls. 46 When he found one of great value, he went away and sold everything he had and bought it. NIV
He sold everything He had. You are that pearl of great value and that is exactly the way He identifies you. You do not see yourself as that. I certainly don't see myself as that but how can you deny His Word? You see, you have to be the pearl. We cannot identify Him as the pearl as we have nothing to buy anything with. We didn't purchase Him. He purchased us and purchased us at a great price. So, for us to say we are worthless is really not in agreement with His Word. We feel worthless; yet we are the greatest value of all. What is that value. O, we see Him as everything. But He sees something in us that forces Him to go to the cross. What is that He sees? You have great understanding. He allowed in you what He allowed to help you to get that understanding. I cannot figure out our value. What is that value that is so great that He gave His life for. He could do no less. He left no room for error. He paid the full price for us. The enemy can never make any claim for anything upon us.
Well, I can't figure that out. I think you will be given some insight. God is going to use you to teach others. You saw something in Hebrews that very few ever see. It was because of your experiences. I think I will start calling you Pearl. Your worth is beyond anything in this world. What is it about you that is so valuable? Hmm. Wow. I guess we may not know on this side.
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Carla I don't see as being obedient as being perfection. And doesn't the bible mention to do these things? I still say there are so many folks who think they are Christian who are not. I know that aint my business but still it is horrifying to think of all these misled folks to believe they can still rape ect ect ect. The way I am learning here is that even if ... say Jeffrey Dolmer believed he got saved one day when he was a kid.... years after he murders all these kids.... he goes to prison and does not ask forgivness... makes excuses for what he has done.... This man is in heaven? I don't know if he asked or not... just trying to use hi for an example. I know yall will say maybe he wasn't reaky a Christian. What I am saying is so many believe as yall do and aren't afraid or fear God because hey its party time. Im not saying I better... I am just saying I don't understand. I need to stop here I am just repeating myself. I don't think I am better either. I know without a doubt I am not good. Also before I stop.... how can something washed clean with the blood of Jesus be dirty?
I am sorry if I seem like an idiot.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Obedience to God is not necessary for salvation. Obedience to God is a right response of one who has been transformed and is now a child of God. Though we may not experience perfection, life without failure to obey, in this life that does not change the fact that our desire and goal is perfection. We must be very careful that we never ignore sin or seek to minimize how much God hates sin regardless of who commits it ... He hates sin.
1Jn 2:3-6 NIV84 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands. (4) The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (5) But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: (6) Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Yes, God does hate sin. The great worldwide flood is certainly proof of that when He killed every living human being on the earth except eight. There are other times when He becomes pretty irate with the people and brings great devastation. He reminds us in Isaiah that it is He that brings about devastation. He is going to do it again. He is going to bring great devastation upon this earth. He tells us that He is going to destroy half of the world's population. There is going to be destruction, starvation, war, and deaths in the billions. That God is still in charge and will always be in charge.
Yet, there is another side of God that is presented in God's Word as well. It is a picture of a loving and forgiving God. It is a picture of One that is willing to forgive over and over and over again. He is One that shows Himself very kind to a certain group of people and that is the people that believe in His Son and in His sacrifice. To those who open their hearts to the Son He completely heals. He takes away their sin. He does not count their sin against them.
These people have the joy in their heart - not because they have been able to stop all their sinning, but because all their sins are forgiven. These are not people that see themselves any longer but they see Jesus seated on the throne of God and know He has saved them and that no one can change that. They rest in His love.
There are people that when they sin, they don't run and hide from God but they run to Him They don't want to be like they are but are so grateful for Jesus and His love. God is their Father. He will never ever again judge them guilty for sin but will lovingly correct them through conviction and discipline. He restores the fallen, lifts them and carries them through their difficult times. There are times these people are very victorious and times they are extremely vulnerable. He loves them through all those times and keeps them as His own.
We are all aware of that God that brings about great destruction upon this earth because He hates sin. He is also a God of love and wants to teach His children about that love. I grew up with a preacher who kept reminding me how terrible I was and how close to hell I was. Is that our purpose or is it to share God's love. His love will cure all.
1 John 3:21-24 21 Dear friends, if our hearts do not condemn us, we have confidence before God 22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him. 23 And this is his command: to believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and to love one another as he commanded us. 24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.
Our Father loved us so much that He gave all to get us. He does not want to harm us. He does want to completely save us and show us the way to love and peace. People suffer so much from condemnation. We in the church are really good at constantly reminding people of all that we must do. So many have literally gotten the idea from us that we must do to receive. They just do not realize that it has all been done for them and all that is left is to receive. They are everywhere all around us. They are suffering, hurting, stymied by all the guilt associated with their great sin. I want to see them shouting to the heavens for His great love. I am completely confident that God will deal with their sin effectively and sufficiently.
Again, Jesus had more problems with those who convinced the people they were all sinners than the actual sinners themselves. On His way to Jerusalem, as He passed through Jericho, He found one of His sheep actually up in a tree just trying to get a glimpse of Him. That was the house He chose to go to that day. That person was one of the worse sinners in town. He had actually joined the despised Romans and was working with them. Jesus changed that man's heart that day and He will change our hearts.
2 John 4-6 It has given me great joy to find some of your children walking in the truth, just as the Father commanded us. 5 And now, dear lady, I am not writing you a new command but one we have had from the beginning. I ask that we love one another. 6 And this is love: that we walk in obedience to his commands. As you have heard from the beginning, his command is that you walk in love. NIV
The command of God for His children is that we walk in love. On the other hand, there is so much sin in this world. We are all wondering how much longer God will allow all this sinfulness to carry on. The world has gotten once again very sinful. America needs to turn from the terrible sin of unbelief and return to God. We are full of those who no longer teach the doctrine of Christ but teach the doctrine of a new god. I'm not sure just how much farther God will go with all of this but I personally believe that America needs to get it turned around or pay the price for its great sin.
God will always have those He loves. He will save them from all their sin and take them home to live with Him forever and ever. I am very thankful He loves me. I want all to know of His great love. What a great world that would be.
Blessings.
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