All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Word of Faith, name it and claim it, blab and grab....
Or my newest fav that I believe JB coined...spit it and get it. LOL!
I've done some warring on this. Was confronted by someone I dearly love at my church Sunday about healing and he was doing the, you gotta believe to receive! You have to believe God has already healed you or you won't get healing. I tried to explain my views on it and that unless God reveals something to me, I simply feel saying that I'm already healed is akin to lying to me and whatever is not of faith is sin. So if I don't have faith in saying it that way, I'd be sinning to actually do that! Aye! Now I confuse myself.
But I've been praying for revelation at times. And so Sunday again, I got a bit more serious on it, asking God to reveal to me the truth of this. Since that time, my devotions, scripture, sermons I hear, they keep pointing to a theme. So I was listening to a sermon while getting ready this morning and a scripture just really stood out to me this time. I've heard it before, but never like this.
Mark 11:24 Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.
Well, in context, Jesus is talking to his disciples about the fig tree He cursed. But verses 23 and 24 state: And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.
So when He says whosoever, He's not just saying this to the disciples, but to anyone. But it speaks as if we must believe that they WILL/SHALL come to pass, that we SHALL have them. It doesn't state immediately or that we have to believe we already have it. If we're sick, we don't have to say I'm healed, I'm not sick. But we can believe that we have prayed for healing and WILL receive it. Perhaps today, tomorrow, maybe in the next minute, maybe in a year...we don't know that.
But one thing I had trouble with is that claiming something was akin to commanding God, and yet these are the words of Jesus, so we're not commanding God, just believing what He's told us.
And then I checked John Gill's commentary:
believe that ye receive [them], and ye shall have [them];
the petitions that are desired, and the things asked in them: for the sense can never be, that they should believe they received them before they had them; this would be a contradiction in terms; and Beza's ancient copy, and one of Stephens's copies read it, "believe that ye shall receive", as in ( Matthew 21:22 ) , and so the Vulgate Latin version; with which agree the Arabic and Ethiopic versions, which render it, "believe that ye shall enjoy", or "obtain"; and the Syriac version, "believe that ye are about to receive".
All in all, I've determined rather than try to answer it when told I must believe I'm already healed physically, rather than believing I've already been granted my petition in the spiritual realm and will receive it in the physical realm at some point, that I will simply smile and nod. Easier than to argue the point. ;-)
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Often times the problem comes from the view of faith and how it is applied or placed. My experience with the WoF is that they tend to have faith in faith, that is they trust if they have enough faith that they can claim anything in the Word of God for themselves. There are two great problems with this approach. 1) We have only one faith and the focus of that faith is Jesus and Jesus only. Now our faith in Him can be multifaceted, but it is still faith "in" Him. 2) Too often people want to pick a verse and hold God accountable to fulfilling that verse in their life. Often we find that the verse being claimed is not a universal promise, but a specific promise to a specific people or person. In order to claim a promise of God we must first establish that this promise is for me today and that God desires to do this in my life. If I can establish these two points my response is not faith in the Word (probably get chewed out on that one), but rather faith in the One who can carry out the promise of the Word.
A.B. Simpson (paraphrased by me) used to tell people that if they are sure that God is going to heal them stand on that promise, for all others ... go to the doctor. That is not a put down, but rather has one come to recognize the promise as applicable to them and are they sure God will fulfill this promise in their life? If yes, stand on that promise trusting Jesus to do it.
Here is a contrast that I believe is applicable in many circles today:
If I believe it God will do it, when the reality is if God has promised it, and assured me, I need to believe it.
One is "Me-ism" where if I I I only have enough faith then God is compelled to do whatever I ask. The other is coming to realize who God is (and what He is capable of), recognizing His promise(s) for me and then believing Him, trusting Him, standing in Him, for the outcome that He has promised. One tells God what to do, the other responds to what God said He will do.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Well here's one that Jim quoted to me Sunday: Psalm 103:1-3Praise the LORD, my soul, and forget not all his benefits— who forgives all your iniquities and heals all your diseases. Gill's commentary likens it to diseases of the soul, especially in light of "who forgives all your iniquities". Maybe I need to really study healing...have so many things I try to study that I don't know where to start. I know that when I'd hear that by His stripes I'm healed, I would think about the rest of the verse. He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities....that suggest what Gill said about the preceding verse...that the healing was of our soul, not physical ailments. I look back to how Jesus allowed Lazarus to die. If a WOF person was around then, how would they have seen this? They'd have probably felt Mary, Martha, and even Lazarus didn't have enough faith to move Jesus to heal him. Sad really when that happens.
But when faced with Mark 11:24 this time, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith....
Hmmm
Well it has to abide by scripture. I'm sure if I believed that I would have fame and fortune to spend on myself I wouldn't have those because they would not be good for me. God wants to give us what we ask for, but He'll first work on changing our desires to those things He desires. I know He has a job for me, and to do it, I've gotta be here and be healthy for awhile. So ultimately, He'll take care of me, either personally or through doctors. My biggest desires and requests of Him were to give me the peace that passes all understanding and the joy unspeakable that His word does promise, regardless of what was going on around me. Well, I feel He's been answering that prayer and I'm confident He'll answer my others.
The biggest issues I had with you have to believe to receive is being told that I had to believe I already had my healing. Now thinking I already have the petitions...in other words, that God has already granted them in the spirit realm, that's one thing. But thinking that I have them in the physical realm is akin to lying for me. But so many who do believe this are so pushy about it, like they have to force you to believe in it too or make sure they try and dash your hopes by telling you if you don't believe it, God won't ever be able to help you. And that's such a dangerous thing to tell someone who is new to Christianity or struggling with it.
I don't believe those in my church who feel this way are into "me-ism", but they truly believe God wants them healed, etc. And perhaps He does, perhaps they have heard from Him in their own lives. But the pushiness of trying to force others to believe the same way.....
I'm just trying to clarify things in my own mind I guess. At least it no longer tears me apart to hear people say these things and I'm secure in what I believe of God.
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Seek,
Early in my Christian walk I believed that Isaiah 53:5c, ".......And by His stripes we are healed." meant ALL healing.
Matter of fact, a friend on his death bed of a disease.......his last dying words were, "By His stripes I am healed."
He sincerely believed in illness healing by the Lord.
Over years of experience and Bible study, there is no doubt in my mind - Jesus heals anyone of the sin of the world to anyone who claims John 3:16 for themselves. This is a spiritual healing. Now, that's not to say that God doesn't heal serious physical issues. I've been involved with prayer, in some miraculous illnesses that had doctors scratching their heads.
No doubt, Jesus came to save sinners from the sin of the world - unbelief. However, He did a lot of healing in His earthly ministry. I think that was part of His outreach. Granted, we still pray for the wellness of our brothers and sisters. Sometimes they are healed.....sometimes not. Fact is , we are in the world (not of the world) and there is a lot of sickness, evil, everything bad you can think of (Rev.12:12), and we will experience it.....until Jesus comes back.
In the meantime, I'm taking the healing of Christ to be spiritually and eternally meaningful.....and the physical illnesses and injuries on a basis of God's grace (II Corinthians 12:9) in each case of prayer.
Grace and Peace.
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I was reading in 1 Corinthians 12 last night and came across something that brought this to mind again.
27 Now you are the body of Christ, and each one of you is a part of it. 28 And God has placed in the church first of all apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, of helping, of guidance, and of different kinds of tongues. 29 Are all apostles? Are all prophets? Are all teachers? Do all work miracles? 30 Do all have gifts of healing? Do all speak in tongues? Do all interpret? 31 Now eagerly desire the greater gifts.
So if God gives different gifts, why would He give the gift of healing to some if we're all supposed to be able to claim we're healed and heal ourselves?
Jesus went around healing and said we'd do greater works and many take that to mean we will all go around healing everyone we come into contact with. I believe we do greater works because there are more of us to spread across the world and do the works.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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So if God gives different gifts, why would He give the gift of healing to some if we're all supposed to be able to claim we're healed and heal ourselves?
Claiming we are healed is just a conformation of God’s Word in our lives. We affirm it, because He said it.
Surly He has borne our GRIEF”S, and carried our SORROWS. Isa.53:4 , Grief’s, Heb. <H2470> (chalah); malady, anxiety, calamity :- disease, grief, (is) sick (-ness). So did He bare our sickness, according to the Heb. Deff. of Grief or not??
Sorrows, Heb. Deff. sometimes mak'owb, mak-obe'; also (feminine Isa. 53:3) mak'obah, mak-o-baw'; from <H3510> (ka'ab); anguish or (figurative) affliction :- grief, pain, sorrow
Now I ask again, Did He carry our sorrows according to the Heb. Deff, or not??
If then He did, then why can’t we claim it? He said Ye must be born again, when you received salvation, did you feel it, or did you accept it by faith? Actually you affirmed it, declared it, acknowledged it, confirmed it, admitted it, you self-confessed it etc., but you did not see, feel taste, smell or hear it. The flesh cannot receive it, just your Spirit. That’s why we can say, by His stripes I am healed, whether or not I sense it, without feeling I am lying, God’s Word is a fact, not theory. .
The only way man can heal himself, is by a prescription, medication, exercise, eat right etc. The carnal way, but no one can claim healing , and get it on his own. If by chance he gets healed, it is not him doing it, but Christ in him, He does the work. Even Jesus couldn’t heal anyone except He heard from the Father. Jo.5:30And neither can any of us, except we hear from the Father. Ro.8:26, tells us we don’t know what we should pray for as we ought, that’s why we pray in the Spirit, to get the will of God concerning the situation. It comes by direct revelation, or by believing and or trusting in the Word that God speaks to us through His Word. Called, faith in Him or in His Word. But it is the Faith of Jesus Christ that does the healing. Not man himself.
Hope this is not too complicated or confusing.
JB
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Malady, anxiety, calamity, anguish, affliction, pain.....all can be internal (mental). Where is the promise of physical healing to every person? Borne/carried....those don't mean the same as healed. The Bible speaks many places of where God does things in His timing, not ours, and many times of how He is with us through our pain and suffering, that He doesn't deliver us out of them immediately but in His time. Jesus asked many...Do you want to be healed? And then He either healed them instantly or He healed them in part and told them to do something further, like go wash in the pool, or the lepers to go show themselves to the priest. Sometimes He healed in stages, like putting mud on the blind man's eyes twice. In none of those instances did Jesus ever ask if they wanted to be healed, and when they responded yes, He never told them then believe you are already healed.
This is where I have a problem with this kind of teaching.
I believe God wants to help us through things, not always out of them, that He wants to heal us according to His timing and plans for our lives. But unless I can find scripture that says Jesus already healed me "physically" and that I'm to go around claiming I have no aches and pains and that I'm completely healed even when I don't feel well, I don't see how that is anymore than telling myself a lie.
To say I'm the head and not the tail, even if I feel like the tail end of everything...well that IS in scripture. But I have yet to find where the Bible says we're already healed of our physical ailments. I don't claim that I am healed but that I know God does plan to heal me in His timing, either through doctors or whatever method He chooses. But being that none of us get off this earth alive, we're obviously not healed physically from everything. We are all appointed a time to die...because our physical bodies do suffer disease and maladies.
As you said we heal ourselves by prescription, medication, exercise and eating right but we cannot get healing on our own. Some diseases aren't even healed regardless of doing all that. And again, you said even Jesus couldn't heal anyone except what He heard from the Father and neither can we. So claiming that I'm healed physically isn't going to heal me physically and if it sounds like a lie to ones ears....since whatever is not of faith is a sin, wouldn't I be sinning to claim that if I didn't have faith that i was already physically healed? Rather I claim I know God wants me healed because of what I personally hear from Him. That healing takes time. He's been healing my mind so that I can eat right and exercise better. He's already healed me of some things through prescriptions that have helped by leading me to the right doctors. When I left my former physician (who was either Hindu or Muslim) and went to a new practice. Where my new doctor is a Christian man, part preacher and part praise team leader. ;-)
I'm still trying to figure out though where scripture is that says we're already "physically" healed. And if anyone has any idea on that that I've missed, I'd love to see it.
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Permalink Reply by Miss Kitty on
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He is all powerful and can do anything he chooses. It must line up with his will for your life. He may choose to heal a person hear or take him home to heal him or he may use a doctor or medicine to do it. He gave us all gifts, some doctors, scientist etc He uses all of them to his glory. He may choose anyone to accomplish what he wants, any situation to draw his children. He wants to be Lord of your Life and every are no matter how small or large. When I ws remodeling my home after a flood from a broken water line, it was overwhelming at times, choosing colors, flooring etc But you know what, if I couldn't decide on a color, whatever, I would just say Lord, you know what I like better than I, bring it forth. He did it with discounts clearance, even put the right christian person right there!!! I'd just say Lord we're going shopping and away we would go!!! Sounds crazy right? Well, he's my everything and just to know it's only going to get better, our relationship. And the growing process is tuff at times but boy is it worth it!!! There are times when you have to wait and wait, that's the hard part, but he is never to early and never late. His timing is perfect !!! And we know our timing is not his timing is not our timing. This is what builds faith, it may be at that very last moment and boom there he is!!!!He doesn't always answer in a way that we think, but always it's for our best interest. Now that's more than a great Daddy!!!!!!!! It's that knowing in your heart that he is right there no matter what. Now that's security and what I'm talking about!!!!! His love is so powerful beyond anything we could ever imagine!!! Love in Christ KJ
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He is so amazing!!!!! You know, he will do something so unexpectedly at times . I've seen him move so miraculously at times, when you least expect it. He never misses a beat! I just want to be as close as I can be to him. I want to be in his perfect will. I know when he's taking me to a higher level, it's hard, but it's worth it. When you ask for more of him, he will give you more of him. He confirms things in so many ways, it's amazing! Love you KJ
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Surely, surely I say to you (I think Jesus would say)- Seek - seek the Kingdom of God above all else, and live righteously, and I will give you everything you need.
If we concentrate on seeking him, the other things fall into place and we find ourselves in a state of thanksgiving, for we serve a Good and Holy God.
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I agree with that David. I love my church so much and feel that's where I belong. But so many there believe one has to claim they're already healed in order to receive their healing and it's hard to take when put that way because it doesn't encourage and causes the new believer to think they'll never be healed then. I like the part about walking out our own salvation. And if claiming one's already healed works for a person that is great...for them. If it doesn't, I just really wish people wouldn't try and claim that is what one has to believe or else. That's where we fall short so many times. We get stuck on our own beliefs that complicate things for others I guess.
I'm sure you can see that from just a couple years ago, I'm definately more peaceful, joyful, thankful and positive. God has been changing me little by little and while I wouldn't wish to struggle again nor wish it upon anyone, I know it's all been necessary and worth it. Having people tell me I had to speak positive or God couldn't do anything for me made me more negative at times. It was realizing God HAS been doing something all along, even in my negativity that changed that. God can do anything He pleases and I should've realized the first time someone said God can't help me if I don't speak positive that they were wrong wrong wrong. The word "can't" alone should've been the indicator. LOL
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