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Before Christ, did anyone go to Heaven
I recently read an article by a Southern evangelist who stated that when Jesus died on the
Cross, that he went "down" into Paradise, which was a part of Hell. He also wrote that Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, David and all of the other Old Testament Saints were kept there against their will, captives of Satan, although he could't harm them. He sites the scripture as Luke 16:25. He claims that this Paradise is also referred to as Abraham's Bosom (Luke 16:23). He claims that this Paradise was a part of Hell, and Jesus did go there, but it was not the burning pit. He then goes on the say that Jesus captured these righteous souls from Satan and lead them captive to Heaven when he ascended on high thus fulfilling Psalms. 68:18. Prior to this, all souls went to Hades when they died along with the souls of the wicked who went to another compartment of that same place, who had a great gulf between them separating the two. (Luke 16:19-31)
What is everyone's input on this, will someone please clarify this? I am finding it hard to believe.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I don't have much time here. I'm sure LT or someone can get deeper. Before Christ, they were kept in the bosom of Abraham.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Luk 16:19-31 NIV84 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. (20) At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores (21) and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores. (22) "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. (23) In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. (24) So he called to him, 'Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.' (25) "But Abraham replied, 'Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. (26) And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.' (27) "He answered, 'Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, (28) for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.' (29) "Abraham replied, 'They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.' (30) "'No, father Abraham,' he said, 'but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.' (31) "He said to him, 'If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.'"
In this passage we find the dead in two places. They are either in hell or at Abraham's side, also known as Abraham's bosom. You find several interesting characteristics here. 1) They are conscious and aware of their surroundings. 2) There is a great chasm between the two regions. 3) This account (though some call it a parable) takes place before Jesus dies on the cross and raises from the dead. 4) In this place, not only are they conscious but they are also aware of those in the other place, thus we know that this is not heaven.
After the resurrection we understand that Jesus leads those on Abraham's side out and up to heaven.
Eph 4:8-10 NIV84 This is why it says: "When he ascended on high, he led captives in his train and gave gifts to men." (9) (What does "he ascended" mean except that he also descended to the lower, earthly regions? (10) He who descended is the very one who ascended higher than all the heavens, in order to fill the whole universe.)
This is quoted from Psalm 68:18
Psa 68:18-20 NIV84 When you ascended on high, you led captives in your train; you received gifts from men, even from the rebellious-- that you, O LORD God, might dwell there. (19) Praise be to the Lord, to God our Savior, who daily bears our burdens. Selah (20) Our God is a God who saves; from the Sovereign LORD comes escape from death.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Denise on
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Thank you LT and Tammy. I still have a question, is Abraham's Bosom a compartment of Hell and were the Old Testament Saints held there against their will?
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To keep it simple, there were two areas in one place with the two areas being separated by a chasm that could not be crossed. You have hell on one side and Abraham's bosom on the other.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Thanks LT. I am still studying the word and praying for understanding. Why would Abraham, Issac, and the other Old Testament Saints be held against their will?
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Not held against their will, but waiting for the blood of Christ, the sacrificial Lamb of God, to be spilled as payment (the only possible payment) for sin that brings true forgiveness and eternal life. Prior to His sacrifice they were not ready for heaven.
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Now that makes sense to me. I suppose that the article I was reading had a "bad" choice of words for me personally. I found it somewhat unbelievable when I read that the saints were held in a "compartment" of hell against their will. I find it hard to understand why a Saint would have to go to Hell? And to be held even in Paradise, "against their will" seems harsh and cruel to me, although he did state that the Devil could not harm them. My perception of Paradise would be something wonderful and a place that you would want to be, not held against your will. And I couldn't comprehend the fact that Jesus had to claim a Saint from the Satan? I suppose my ignorance is showing here, but I thought that if a Saint was in Paradise, Satan didn't have a claim to them anymore?
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It would be safe to say that he did not have a claim on them or access to them and that what we see in the Luke account they are in a place of comfort and safety, especially in comparison to the other side of the chasm.
We learn by asking questions, questions of Scripture, questions of others, etc. Plus there are no dumb or silly questions when we really want to learn and know the answer.
Lord Bless,
LT
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The law judges and Jesus judges. The law condemns and Jesus condemns. In this we understand that those apart from Christ are lost due to their sin, guilty before God. This is true now and the only hope is redemption which brings justification in Jesus. Yet, there is a day coming when the guilty will be sentenced and that sentence will be final. We know from John 5:28-29 that both the saved and unsaved will be raised. One is raised to life and one to be condemned.
We also understand that those in Abraham's bosom were there prior to the resurrection of Jesus and were conscious.
When we think of the word "one" in the Bible we must understand that it does not mean always mean one moment in time, but one event that can be multifaceted and seen over a period of time. The Bible talks about two resurrection. The resurrection of the living and the dead, the saved and the unsaved as mentioned above (John 5:28-29). Yet, Jesus was the first resurrection and we are the first resurrection, but these two events are separated by time even though they are only one event. From a human stand point we have our court system as a poor example, but one we can look at. A person is found guilty on one day and is usually sentenced on another day, but both the verdict and sentence are part of the same trial.
Hope that helps a little.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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Hebrews 11:39-40 speaks of this as well: And all these, having gained approval through their faith, did not receive what was promised, because God had provided something better for us, so that apart from us they would not be made perfect.
They were counted righteous, and yet even counted as such, until Christ came and died for all sin, they could not go to heaven.
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It is my understanding that when a person dies, he goes to paradise. Then when the resurrection occurs, those that are dead in Christ rise to meet Jesus in the air, their spirits get a new body and they go to live with Jesus in the new heaven. Is this correct? What is everyones thoughts on this?
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