Strip Club

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RoyW on July 16, 2013 at 2:25pm

Thanks, LT. I feel better. The better definition for the word is a comment not to be taken seriously rather that definition I gave. However, the correct definition for the word is a whole lot closer to the intent of the comment rather than the word "vicious." I hope that makes sense because now I don't even know what I mean. lol  The word as I have heard it pronounced would sound like this to me: 

fa shish us

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 16, 2013 at 8:34pm

Roy,

Actually I wasn't being facetious. I was flustered-- agitated and confused -- because I can judge between right and wrong but there are many gray areas. Black and white is easier. I want life to be easier. I wish for one right answer and one clear wrong answer about all things.

For me, this is a gray area and so I will have to take a neutral position now whereas at first I considered the women in the Scarlet Hope ministry as strong Christians able to use their freedom in Christ to be all things to all men (women) that they might by all means save some, and I didn't know if going into the clubs was wrong or not but if it was then the other parts of their ministry were very good IMO and that was good enough for me.

I've had to reconsider my stance after hearing what all of you others have had to say about them, and I understand also that the strong must be considerate of the weak and perhaps those offended by what they are doing in the strip clubs are weak in conscience in this area.

Since we are not to exercise our freedoms and hurt those weaker in faith, the ministry would be erring in this case. Maybe this is why any such incidence was omitted from Scripture of the apostles actually preaching in a tent or establishment where sexual immorality was occurring in this manner. Or, maybe they avoided such places to keep themselves unspotted from the world.

You see, I can only speculate because, for me, it's a gray area. I have no evidence that the early church christians did go into similar situations. Paul was a tentmaker and it's likely many tents were set up in the marketplace in Athens and Corinth and he likely did spend time inside of tents with other people who were lost. Paul likely witnessed all manner of evil. Acts 18 says Aquila and Priscilla were fellow "tentmakers". Can anyone really make the case that none of the apostles entered tents or dwellings where lost people committed sins even while they preached to them? There again we need evidence that they did more than proof that they didn't.

Where the bible is silent, many say we should be silent. I want to let God judge the ones in any ministry and convict them of sin and righteousness on things that are not clear in scriptures. I know I won't be serving in any ministry. My spirit has been crushed by life. As I said I will be one barely escaping the flames. Everything I built is worthless.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on July 17, 2013 at 4:38am

Amanda,

To me it is black and white. I have no doubt that Jesus would go into that kind of establishment to get one of His. He was known to eat with publicans and sinners. On several occasions the self-righteous Pharisees would criticize Him for doing so. On one occasion He told them the story of the ninety-nine and the one lost sheep. Jesus would not end His journey until He found that lost one. I am very glad He was like that or I might still be lost. If one of His sheep were in there, I know He would go get that sheep.

 However, we assume it is bad to enter that kind of establishment since God has not given us that kind of grace to do so. It is wrong for us to assume that He gives no one that grace. The ministry is not for everyone. Since I believe Jesus would enter that place, I also believe that He just may have given this person the grace to do so. Once Jesus was eating at a Pharisee's house. A lady such as these strippers came into the home, spilled her tears upon His feet, and washed His feet with her hair. She did not stop there as she began to kiss his feet and anoint them with perfume.  Jesus allowed her to do that. Again, that kind of ministry is not for all and certainly offended the self-righteous ones. Can you imagine the disgust as she was kissing His feet? Yet, it was right for Jesus to do that. It was right because that lady belonged to Him while many of the self-righteous did not. 

We think the strip club is a bad place since sin goes on in there. Sin goes on everywhere. Why do we say this sin is worse than others? It is because we have become a little self-righteous ourselves. We are all sinners and Jesus had to come and get us wherever we were. We would never consider entering a nice expensive corporate building to witness as bad. Yet, I tell you that in many of these places there are just as many evil sins taking place as in those strip clubs. Would we consider it wrong to enter the White House a sin? Yet, now we know that vile sin has taken place in the very Oval Office itself. 

If we stop going into places where sin is taking place, we must stop going anywhere. Are we not to go into bars? Are we not to go into corporate offices? Are we not to go into places where sin is taking place? Do not judge these great ladies. They are carrying out the mission of our Lord to go into all the world. Jesus knew the world was evil when He said that. We know our great weaknesses and feel that is a place we should not go. I agree that it is not for all. However, I do believe it is for some. Perhaps some would be tempted with great money. They probably should stay away from the new casinos across our country but for some, they could find a lot of sinners in there. They might even find one of His or maybe more than one in one of those places.

Permalink Reply by Seek on July 17, 2013 at 6:00am

However, we assume it is bad to enter that kind of establishment since God has not given us that kind of grace to do so. It is wrong for us to assume that He gives no one that grace.

A big amen Roy.  You said it better than I.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 17, 2013 at 6:15am

Roy,
In 1 Peter 4:8 we read:
Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

The irony is that we can't seem to get past seeing the mistakes of others to allow love to cover a multitude of sins. Yes, no one can make the case that the apostles didn't enter such establishments to sow the message of faith in every creature they came across, and we have evidence that they did go into cities known for great immorality and the members of the church in Corinth were having a difficult time overcoming sexual immorality.
1 Cor 5:1 says,
I can hardly believe the report about the sexual immorality going on among you-- something that ... as is not so much as named among the Gentiles, that one should have his father's wife.

If it's happening in the church we have been instructed what to do but as far as in the world it says He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. Mark 16:15

That's the part about this that isn't black and white to me because obviously there are places we aren't to enter but we have to really dig to come up with why. So it's pretty gray and dismal. I'm too afraid of making mistakes in ministry so I'm not even going to try. I made many before and probably did more harm than good. I'm being serious about this last part -- I am too afraid to go back to work or volunteer at church or serve in anyway. I know how fallible I am.

Permalink Reply by Seek on July 17, 2013 at 6:36am

So it's pretty gray and dismal.

Amanda, I am trying to come to a point where, while there is so many areas that seem so gray and God has not yet given me understanding of, that I'm where He wants me right now and doing all I know to do and trying to learn to just be ok with that rather than continually beat myself up internally for what I don't get.

I love how Roy put it somewhere....God gives some people the grace for certain things.  To us who may feel that area is gray, He won't send us into that ministry but put us where we can be of good use. 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on July 17, 2013 at 7:23am

Amanda,

We cannot give up simply because we know how fallible we all are. "Go," and if you fall He will pick you up. You have way too much to give to not go. Of teachers and prophets, He requires much. You have much to give. You will be fine. AAG has the most wonderful people in the world. We are all here to give you support. I pray you will get through this difficult time. In Jesus name. 

I hope this reply falls in the right place. I had to go back another page to find where to reply.

Char is so right on with her comment that God will put us where we can be put to good use. He just did that again for me. I thought I was done and He put right back to work in less than a month. There are so many needs out there. There are still so many lost ones. We never know where we are going to find one.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 20, 2013 at 3:58pm

Roy,
I don't want to discuss this ministry anymore but I do want to ask you about something you said.

It was this:
"However, we assume it is bad to enter that kind of establishment since God has not given us that kind of grace to do so. It is wrong for us to assume that He gives no one that grace."

I'm learning more about grace. I was thinking that God gives us all the same amount of grace and the same kind of grace. Why are some of us still so weak as christians and what makes others stronger? Why does there have to be the weak and the strong? Why doesn't God give us all the same strength and the same grace?

Permalink Reply by Tammy on July 20, 2013 at 4:13pm

Amanda I agree with Roy about don't "not go" just because you're scared of your infallibility. We all fail & we'll fail again but don't let it stop you from using your awesome talents. He's got your back.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on July 21, 2013 at 1:54pm

Amanda,

I had to look awhile to find where to respond to your question. I hope I got it right. I think this would be a great question for another forum. What I am saying is that God gives different gifts or apportions grace much differently. We are all given the same grace for salvation. However, in our service to our Lord, we are all gifted differently for service. For instance:

Eph 4:7-8 

7 But to each one of us grace has been given as Christ apportioned it. 8 This is why it says:

"When he ascended on high,
he led captives in his train
and gave gifts to men." NIV

~or~

1 Cor 12:7-11

7 Now to each one the manifestation of the Spirit is given for the common good. 8 To one there is given through the Spirit the message of wisdom, to another the message of knowledge by means of the same Spirit, 9 to another faith by the same Spirit, to another gifts of healing by that one Spirit, 10 to another miraculous powers, to another prophecy, to another distinguishing between spirits, to another speaking in different kinds of tongues, and to still another the interpretation of tongues. 11 All these are the work of one and the same Spirit, and he gives them to each one, just as he determines. NIV

Not all are called to the same service. Paul acknowledged that it was the grace given him that he was able to do what he was doing. I cannot be a Paul. And, you cannot be one of those ladies (unless, of course, God gave you that ability.

I think that would make a good forum since you no longer want to talk about the clubs. This is only touching the surface of one like that. A title could be: "Does God call all people to speak in tongues?" Now, that would get some notice. haha

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 21, 2013 at 3:11pm

Roy,

I mean I don't want to talk about the Scarlet Hope ministry anymore. They aren't here to speak for or to defend themselves. However, I believe that talking about this type of ministry has value -- ministering to and sowing the message of faith to men and women who are prostitutes, pimps, strippers, pornographers, and sex slaves. This discussion is specifically about Rachel Starr and her ministry, Scarlet Hope, and what they might or might not be doing wrong. At least that's my perception of it. I don't feel good about that. I've had to pray about some of my comments about them and clear my conscience over a few things, like where I called them a bad ministry. I was frustrated at that point.

 

I actually have already posted discussions about spiritual gifts. I think I'm fixated right now on the strong and weak. Your comments about kinds or portions of grace caught my attention. Thanks for replying.

 

 

 

 

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 21, 2013 at 4:02pm

Roy, I started a discussion about grace and faith.

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/do-you-ever-feel-like-it-s-...

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