Can Ariel Castro be convicted of murder by acts that led to the termination of pregnancy?

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 11, 2013 at 5:55am

This is an old, short article I have in my files. I don't recall where I got it from. I did not write it, but I do agree with it.

What should Christians believe about capital punishment?

Does God support the death penalty or reject it? What does the Bible say? Would it be better to ban the death penalty and replace it with a jail sentence for life?

The Old Testament civil laws imposed the death penalty (capital punishment) for:

• murder (Exodus 21:12)
• adultery (Leviticus 20:10)
• rape (Deuteronomy 22:25–26)
• homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13)
• kidnapping (Exodus 21:16)
• bestiality (Exodus 22:19)
• witchcraft (Exodus 22:18)
• being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:1–10)
• prostitution (Deuteronomy 22:24).

The first death penalty

God was the first to set up the death penalty. After the worldwide Flood of Noah's time, God put safeguards in place against human violence. Of prime importance was the death penalty: “Whoso sheddeth man's blood, by man shall his blood be shed: for in the image of God made he man” (Genesis 9:6).

If a human or an animal killed a human, the killer was to be put to death (Genesis 9:5). This was because of the sacredness of human life. God created humans in His image, so murdering another human meant you would forfeit your own life.

Interestingly, God has never revoked the death penalty. Jesus said He did not come to destroy the law, but to fulfil it (Matthew 5:17). And the Apostle Paul preached about the government's right to invoke capital punishment on evildoers (Romans 13:1-5).

What about wrong convictions?

What if an innocent person is wrongly sentenced to death?

Well, there is no more famous case of an innocent person's being condemned to death than when God's own Son, Jesus Christ, endured an unjust trial on trumped-up charges, suffered, and died on a wooden cross. Yet God did not intervene. The need for justice is so strong that it seems He is willing to put up with an occasional wrong conviction rather than remove the death penalty.

But God is also merciful. He often shows charity and mercy when the death penalty is due. David committed murder, yet God did not take his life. In John chapter 8 we read that the scribes and Pharisees brought to Jesus a woman caught in adultery, and asked Him whether she should be stoned to death, as the Law of Moses required. Jesus said, “He that is without sin among you, let him first cast a stone at her.” They all left.

God allows governments to impose the death penalty. We should all be aware that if we do wrong in a country that allows the death penalty, we must be ready for the punishment.

Those who say the death penalty isn't a deterrent to crime miss the point. The penalty is not chiefly to deter others, but to punish and remove from society the one who would perpetrate such serious crimes.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 11, 2013 at 6:27am

Very well said by whoever said it. We may not like what the Word says but we must admit - He is God and I am not. The reason you agree with this is that you believe the Word of God trumps political correctness. David was granted mercy but in a way he was not. He had three sons die violent deaths and a fourth that died at a very young age. He suffered enough. He is now with His Lord that he believed in throughout his life. He is my brother and I will see him some day. I am also very grateful for God's forgiveness. 

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 11, 2013 at 10:35am

This is all in the OT right? I may be totally wrong but I recall you & Char discussing tithes one day & you said we're in grace & no longer under the law so the 10% law is no longer valid. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Thanks

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 11, 2013 at 11:02am

Tammy,

 

There is enough scripture that backs up the death penalty in both Old and New Testament.

 

Tithes are not discussed in the New Testament as a command that continous on for NT believers. The opposite is taught. The verses that are used to try to back up tithes as a New Testament command can be shown to be taken out of context and are forced.

 

Romans 13:1-5

New International Version (NIV)

Submission to Governing Authorities

13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. ² Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. ³ For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. ⁴ For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. ⁵ Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

 

---

1 Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord's sake to every human authority: whether to the emperor, as the supreme authority,

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 11, 2013 at 11:40am

I guess my point here is you are crying for blood. Now, you are blaming it on the government like Adam blamed God for his actions. Honestly, if someone hurt my family, I'd be the one in prison but praise God, it's not me. However, as a Christian, I shouldn't feel that way. I follow the government as the Lord says but if there is no death penalty in that state, you are still crying out for blood. It may not have been you but I believe someone said YES  They deserve to die. Well, we do too don't we? Just think about how scary that is that you love the idea of someone dying for their crime. What if we had gotten the judgement we deserved? Anyways, I just find it strange how Christians pull out those nails & horns when it comes to convicting someone to die but so gentle when loving our neighbors. Can pure & salty water come from the same spout? I think not. My view may change AGAIN if someone has injured someone I love but for the moment, I'm against killing anyone based on man's judgement. 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 11, 2013 at 12:07pm

Tammy,

 

Really and I mean really, I don’t care what happens to him. I am not his master. I pray for the world as God teaches me to do, but I don’t care if he gets life or death. Life in prison for him would be a bigger punishment, as I stated before, there are those already longing that he is place in their prison for entertainment purposes. Correctional officers have a way of placing such offenders “by mistake” in the wrong places in prison.

 

I hope he comes to saving faith. I pray God blesses him. If someone hurt my family I would also pray for them and try to show them Christ’s love. If I could physically stop them from doing it, I would, but I would not try to kill them unless I absolutely had no other choice and if they wouldn’t kill me first.

 

I have not said I love the idea of someone dying for their crime. I have said in multiple places that God has given us so much grace so we can give grace. I wouldn’t even want a person who has done horrible things to my own family to be killed. I would love the opportunity to visit that person in prison and give them the love of Christ. As I said before, by the grace of God, I am not devastated by the death of love ones.

 

Blessings to you.

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 11, 2013 at 5:31pm

Really and I mean really, I don’t care what happens to him. I think that is a sad statement to make from a man of God esp one that claims to be behind the pulpit that you could care less what happens to him. That is truly sad indeed.

Also, if he gets life, which I think he should, the vision I see of you while describing him in prison brought to my mind the Cheshire Cat rubbing his paws together & that evil grin: Bring him in Bring him in. We will do what we do best. He will wish he was on death row. That's exactly how I read it David. I promise I did. lolol. Like the spider to the fly. lolool. It just shocked me a bit but it's all good. You kill them & I'll continue to pray they receive Christ before you zap the

 juices flow. 

Blessings to you as well

Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 11, 2013 at 5:48pm

Tammy,

I don't know you at all as I don't comment too many times anymore. David's meaning is very clear to anyone that is really interested in knowing his position. You might disagree but I have to admit that I feel the characterization you have drawn of David is way off. I don't get that at all. I know David genuinely cares for the lost. He is simply not advocating that this man should be killed for his crime. Whether he does or does not get the death penalty is not the issue in the statement. You are mistaken in your characterization. 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on May 11, 2013 at 8:03pm

Really and I mean really, I don’t care what happens to him. 

 

Roy got the meaning of my statement and I hope most people did as well. The only thing it means is that I don't care whether he gets life in prison or the death penalty. I do hope as I stated multiple times before that he comes to repentance.

 

You often talk about killing people if they hurt your family. I have said that even if someone hurts my family I would love the chance to visit them in prison to give them the love of God, so Tammy that is all I will say about that. 

 

I have no desire for him to be hurt, but I was describing how horrible he will have it in prison was he sentence to life. You are the one who thinks he should suffer. How you take my statements to mean something completely different than what I intent to convey lets me know that you continue to want to knock me out. Maybe you shouldn't read my posts since it appears that you are prone to take them out of context hahaha and I don't want you sinning as you read them. You probably have visualize knocking me out and that is sin and I don't want you sinning so .... hahaha

 

It's all good. Love and blessings to you

Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 13, 2013 at 9:43pm

Tammy, now you really have me. I'm not sure who JP is. Do you mean JB? If so, JB is a friend that I defend as a believer even though our views are pretty different in some areas. That doesn't stop me from liking him or being a friend. I can't think of who JP might be. It is not that I have quit commenting. I just do most of my time praying for others in the net prayer room. It is a wonderful experience and one I high recommend.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 14, 2013 at 7:06am

Roy, are you not a teacher at a private Christian school? I find it funny how you so quickly jump to the conclusion that I'm demeaning David's character when you don't know me even tho we have spoken a gazillion trillion times. However, because my memory obviously isn't as bad as yours, I do remember you & know you to be a humble man of God so I'll take it as you just didn't word it correctly or I didn't read it with the greatest of humility that I've known you to write in the past. Sorry, yes, JB. I was kidding about that one even tho you do defend him many times, maybe not his views but him as a man of God which I've never doubted. Sorry JB for throwing your name where it don't belong. My bad. Thanks for the net prayer invitation. I'm a member & do pray often. I get the emails & pray. I just don't post my prayers often as I don't see it necessary always. So, know, I'm there in Spirit a lot maybe not in words. Be blessed brother.

David, I apologize for coming at you with daggers. I would never want to knock you out. That takes way too much energy. I posted this last night but it got removed. I rarely put my feelings out there so it comes thru my replies. That's not a good thing. It's been a pretty rough 8 months for me so I've grown a bit cold & rigid unfortunately. I use to bathe my replies in prayer & have failed to do that for some time now. I apologize for being rude if that's how you took any of my comments which I'm sure I meant them to be. We rarely agree on anything but one thing we can agree on is our Savior. I sometimes forget we're of the same blood line & feel I need to defend something that I don't. I so hugely apologize. You don't deserve anything I threw at you & I'm WRONG. So, write that down cause you won't hear it much.

On this issue, I grew up southern Baptists so I was tying nooses at the age of 5 & slapping the horses at 8. However, the Karla Faye Tucker story really turned a page in that for me & I began looking at it from a different angle as I feel we should do with all situations. No situation should ever go against the Bible but every situation isn't as cut & dry as we sometimes try to make it be. The older I get, the more I'm becoming so aware of this as more situations come our way. Amazing as young people, we knew all the right answers. Anyways, I may change my mind again. I probably did say I wish those men would suffer. I hate I said it but then again, I probably wish they would. If it was my family, I'm not as valiant as yourself as to want to share the gospel with them. I would love to say I would be but I'd kill you over my babies. I've seen mothers go forgive people in prison & I think that's incredible. I pray I never have to face that one because I think I would fail. Tell u what, if it happens to me, I'll send you. lol. I do want to say that your comment back to me last night knocked me out in a way. The Lord used it to slap me back into reality a bit so I thank you. I'm sure we'll still disagree on many issues as we always have but I pray I'm more prayerful in my responses.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 14, 2013 at 9:31am

Tammy,

Thank you for the kind words. Yes, I do defend Joe sometimes. It is because I know Joe as a personal friend. He does come under attack some because of his position on faith but I can tell you that he has lived his faith and is a remarkable specimen of a person. He is over eighty years old and probably looks around sixty. He looks a little like what I would expect Moses to look like when he was 80 and lived to be 120. I am kinda thinking Joe might actually make it to 120. I have never met another person quite like him. I know Joe to be a wonderful person. I don't agree with everything he teaches but I do not take the position that I am right and he is wrong. I know he believes and lives very strongly what he teaches. He is a very good man who lives his testimony of his faith in Christ. He will be in heaven but I am beginning to think that many of us will have been there quite a few years when Joe actually gets there. You would be shocked if you saw him and knew how old he was. He is a modern day Moses. 

David is also a friend of mine and when you appeared to be attacking his character I said something and I should have just kept my big nose out of it. I apologize.  I can tell that you and David are friends. I was out of place and will try not to do that again. I have quit commenting a lot because I realized that I did not do it right and praying that God can use me in other ways. However, I love to comment on AAG. I have developed many wonderful friends that I think the world of. I don't know them all personally like I do Joe and David but have developed a love for this family. You are obviously a powerful member of AAG as you are good at making us all really defend what we believe. We can never grow without that. 

Well, enough of this. I guarantee I will not forget again. haha

Blessings.

Roy

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