"Starbucks CEO: If You Support Traditional Marriage, We Don’t Want Your Business"

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on March 30, 2013 at 4:15pm

Preach

Permalink Reply by RoyW on March 30, 2013 at 7:39pm

If I am understanding the issue we are facing correctly, we are deciding whether or not a state has the obligation to recognize a marriage joining members of the same sex performed in another state. The DOMA deals with this issue and our president would like to void this federal law. California's proposition 8 states that California will only recognize marriage as between members of the opposite sex. This would be in line with DOMA. Since some states has recognized a marriage between members of the same sex, it is a very critical issue. It is an issue that must be decided.

The Bible ordains that marriage is between a husband and his wife. Jesus reiterated this in His teaching:

Mark 10:6-9 "But at the beginning of creation God 'made them male and female.'   7 'For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife,   8 and the two will become one flesh.'  So they are no longer two, but one. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate." NIV

It's pretty difficult to argue our Lord's position on what God originally intended. A man will be united to his wife. This is very clear. Marriage is a holy estate ordained by God to be entered into by a man and a woman. This is an union adopted by our country from its beginning. For centuries it was never questioned. Now, however, marriage is becoming more of a political institution with the government making different kinds of law governing it. What our government views as marriage is already somewhat different than what our government views it. However, there is no way to justify that a marriage can be described as being between two men or two women. Biologically, they cannot be joined together with the exception of an extremely perverted way.

I think Carla's position that God hates the sin but does not hate the sinner is a good position for the church. There is no way the church can recognize same-sex marriage. We can easily condemn homosexuality from Scripture. Attempts to make it acceptable to God is simply nonsense. Yet, at the same time, we cry out against same-sex marriage but are not saying much about two living together outside of holy matrimony. All sin is wrong whether it is homosexuality or having sex with someone other than your married mate and is equally wrong. I agree that the issue has nothing to do whether or not someone is born with homo or heterosexual tendencies. We are all born in sin and have sin to overcome. It is simply the nature of the humans we are. We should not treat someone with homosexual tendencies as worse than we with other sinful tendencies.

However, it is absolutely ridiculous to call the union between two men as a marriage. That is completely against what Scripture teaches. Those that teach that Scripture teaches that it is acceptable to God for two men to have sexual relations is absolutely teaching against the authority of Scripture. There are many other things that God does not condone. But, marriage is sanctioned by God to be a holy estate.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 30, 2013 at 8:23pm

Yes, earlier this week the Supreme Court heard oral arguments on cases involving the right for same-sex couples to legally wed. Several of the GOP have changed their stance regarding the issue and have gotten on board with the others and now see it as an equal rights issue. But others still think it should be decided by the individual states. You are right. Even if man made laws recognize it as a legal marriage, God doesn't recognize these unions as being covenants of marriage. I agree that we shouldn't treat homosexuals as being worse than any others -- we can't throw stones. We need to be in prayer for our nation. Deeds of darkness need to be exposed. I am confident that God is in control.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 1, 2013 at 9:05am

I think Carla's position that God hates the sin but does not hate the sinner is a good position for the church.

If I understand the post that Carla made, then she was agreeing with me that we shouldn't tell people God does not hate sinners.

Proverbs 6:16-19

King James Version (KJV)

¹⁶ These six things doth the Lord hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

¹⁷ A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

¹⁸ An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

¹⁹ A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren.

This seems to include certain people as well as their sins. But hating sinners doesn't mean God doesn't also love sinners. One thing we can't say is that God is apathetic or doesn't care.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 1, 2013 at 9:44am

My position is that God hates the sin and the sinner.  I never used to say that though.. but now I see it a bit differently.  Here's an article which says it well.  I hope to have more time to elaborate if needed.

 

Question: "Does God hate? If God is love, how can He hate?"

Answer: It seems a contradiction that a God who is love can also  hate. We are created with the capacity to both love and hate; it is part of our  being created in the image of God. The fact that we are all tainted with sin  does not negate the fact that the ability to love and hate is part of the image  of God that was created within us all. Therefore, if it is no contradiction for  a human being to be able to love and hate, then much more so would it not be a  contradiction for God to be able to love and hate.

When the Bible does  speak of God hating, the object of God’s hatred is usually sin and wickedness.  Among the things God hates are idolatry (Deuteronomy 12:31; 16:22)  and those who do evil (Psalm 5:4-6;  11:5). Proverbs 6:16-19 outlines seven things the Lord hates: pride, lying, murder, evil plots, those  who love evil, false witness, and troublemakers. Notice that this passage does  not include just things that God hates; it includes people as  well.

The question that begs to be answered at this point is why does  God hate these things? God hates them because they are contrary to His  nature—God’s nature being holy, pure and righteous. In fact, David writes, “For  you are not a God who delights in wickedness; evil may not dwell with  you” (Psalm 5:4 emphasis added). God is holy and hates sin. If He did not hate sin, He would not  be holy. God is love, but He is also wrath, justice, and vengeance. But His  wrath is a holy wrath and His justice and vengeance are holy as well. God’s love  is holy. Therefore, He cannot "love everyone all the time no matter what they  do," as some like to claim. Nothing could be further from the truth. God loves  righteousness and holiness and hates sin and evil. If He did not, He would not  be God.

So if God hates sin and loves holiness, how does He love us?  Simple. He loves us because we have the righteousness of Christ who became sin  for us on the cross (2  Corinthians 5:21). He poured out His wrath and vengeance against sin on His  Son, so that He could pour out His mercy and love on us. But without that  sacrifice credited to us, His wrath and hatred remain on us because He hates our  sin. The Bible never says He "hates the sin, but loves the sinner." In fact, He  is “angry with the wicked every day” (Psalm 7:11).  Is there a sense in which God loves everyone? Yes. Does that love preclude God  from also hating sin, wickedness, and evil? No.

Recommended  Resources: Logos Bible Software and  The Difficult Doctrine of the Love of God by D.A.  Carson.


Read more:  http://www.gotquestions.org/does-God-hate.html#ixzz2PE8LxmhV

 

one last thought... since we are NOT God...we are to respond in Love to the sinner in hopes to show them Jesus.  Our job is to be honest with what Jesus has done in our lives and approach all evangelism with humility remembering where we came from---otherwise we risk coming across as 'holier than thou'....that would not be productive.  We are sinners saved by Grace--we would all do well to remember that.

Permalink Reply by ribbon on April 1, 2013 at 10:18am

I seen where this was mentioned a day or two ago, "God hating". Its just now hitting me. Maybe this is why I know I don't belong with the chosen... because God hates me. I'm not pouting y'all I'm just saying my thoughts. It seems my only hope...( God hates sin but LOVES the sinner) is vanished. I'm getting it now as to why I just cant get the faith of believing I am saved. I guess I believed weirdly Because I believed He loves the sinner but not their sin but at the same time I believed God cannot look at sin so how could He even know the sinner. I felt emotional last night about the lord , today I'm down about the lord. I care about you both Carla and Amanda. So please know I'm not picking on y'all

Permalink Reply by Seek on April 1, 2013 at 10:20am

Janie we all feel up and down.  That has nothing to do with God but with our own "feelings", which is why we're not supposed to rely on them as hard as it is.  I know when I feel down, I can feel as if God must really hate me, yet in the back of my mind, I know that isn't the truth. 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 1, 2013 at 11:05am

Janie, I'm very sorry that my saying it has hurt you. God is still very much in your thoughts. So take heart.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 1, 2013 at 11:11am

Janie, we don't trust our feelings.  We know that God wants us to be reconciled with Him because He showed us by His Son Jesus coming to us.  For God love is an Action...not a feeling.  The action has already been done and Jesus has conquered sin and death...and when we trust in Him we do also.  I wouldn't want your faith to be reduced to mere 'feeling'.  I want to see it much more concrete and solid than that.  I want you to be able to stand and say 'Jesus loves me... He died for me.--My feelings will no longer dictate anything else.' 

 

When we come from a life of abuse it's sometimes hard to remember that Jesus thinks we are someone worth dying for... Janie, you are worth it in God's eyes. 

 

John 3:16,17-- For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life.  "For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him."

 

From 'gotquestions'

"The Bible clearly teaches that God is love. First John  4:8-9 says, “Whoever does not love does not know God, because God is love.  This is how God showed his love among us: He sent his one and only Son into the  world that we might live through him.” Mysterious but true is the fact that God  can perfectly love and hate a person at the same time. This means He can love  him as someone He created and can redeem, as well as hate him for his unbelief  and sinful lifestyle. We, as imperfect human beings, cannot do this; thus, we  must remind ourselves to “love the sinner, hate the sin.”

Read more:  http://www.gotquestions.org/love-sinner-hate-sin.html#ixzz2PERU3d67"

 

It's a confusing thing to discuss 'Love the sinner, hate the sin'....because we are imperfect.  No matter what we uphold God's standard because He is the Lawgiver and has the final say.

 

Janie, There is good news for all people.  His name is Jesus Christ.  If God didn't want you reconciled to Him He wouldn't have sent Jesus Christ to be born, suffer, die and rise again back to life.  God's Love is not a mushy 'feeling' kind of Love.  God's Love is serious business...It's all encompassing...but it will not excuse or make room for sin.  God is also Holy---and His essence is Love... That's why Jesus came for you and for me, and Amanda, and seek ye first, and Michelle, and David, and LT, and all of us... 

 

Sometimes people can become so rooted in feelings of rejection that they simply feel unlovable and unloved...  Sometimes our lives only seemingly show evidence that is true--- that's the enemies plan and he's very good at it.  The enemy seeks to steal, kill and destroy, Jesus came so that we will have life and have it in abundance (John 10:10).

Our 'abundant' life begins when we trust in Jesus and are born again.  Take your focus off the words "because God hates me" and meditate on 'Jesus loves me and died and rose back to life for me". 

 

Oh how the enemy loves to twist and distort words... please don't listen to him and fall victim to that beloved.  You know I love you, Carla

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 1, 2013 at 9:51pm

This has been on my mind on and off today...  It seems to me that it (this message)should drive us to Jesus so that we cling to Him all the more.  When we realize JUST HOW MUCH He is our only hope...  Then we truly will cling to the cross and never let go.

However, if we preach 'God loves the sinner but hates the sin'....then in a way we are telling people 'It's okay what you do, God's really okay with it...' ....I think we have to do away with that.  I think we need to let people know that God is Holy and Righteous....However, In His essence He is Love--That's why Jesus came for us.  We must cling to Jesus like never before and allow Him to renew, soften, change, redeem, re-make and re-mould us.  Jesus is the Creator of the world...and He is the Creator of new hearts and lives.  There is hope found in only HIM-- That's what people need to hear.

 

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 2, 2013 at 7:49am

I agree. The other part of this teaching is that we are all born in darkness, none of us deserving heaven, and when God awakens the sleeper and the sleeper comes into the light and then God performs the miracle of the new birth which is as much of a miracle as the Resurrection itself, then that person is no longer viewed by God as a sinner but is a saint and is a child of the light amd has been accepted into the Beloved -- the Beloved Jesus Christ. There are various teachings regarding coming into the light. Some teach that the awakened sleeper has a choice to either remain in darkness or choose the light. Others believe the light, which is Christ Jesus, who is the light of the world, is irresistable. But nonetheless a child of light is a saint in God's eyes. Even though the person may sin, the person has a different Master now.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 2, 2013 at 7:56am

Yes Amanda.  I agree.  and Certainly the 'how it happens' may remain as a mystery to us.  :-)

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