"Starbucks CEO: If You Support Traditional Marriage, We Don’t Want Your Business"

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 2, 2013 at 10:06am

Something else about it, which may not be as beautiful as becoming a child of the light but is pretty wonderful and incredible, is the fact that we are lights, too, and God wants to use as God awakens sleepers. 

Ephesians 5:13-14:
But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
    rise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”

I remember as a child I had many days when I dreaded facing the mornings. I remember mom coming in to make me get up and go to school and she would turn the bright light on and I would close my eyes and throw the cover over my head but eventually my eyes would adjust to the light and I would finish waking up. People recoil from the light. It takes awhile to adjust to the light. Many have yet to come into the kingdom. We are to be lights for them. I wonder sometimes if I'm blocking the gate to the narrow path for others. They surely will enter but it seems sometimes they have to go around some people before the way is cleared for them. Then it's so easy to get off the path. In my personal experience, I've encountered those who have blocked the light for me. I'm sure I'm guilty, too.

Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. (Matthew 5:15-16)

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12)

After Paul saw the light he spent the rest of his life showing it to others. We don't have the right to stop preaching salvation to sinners.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 2, 2013 at 7:42am

Janie, When we are covered by the blood of the lamb, God sees Jesus when He looks at us.  At the point of Salvation we have the righteousness of Christ.  God poured His wrath and vengeance against sin on Christ, so that He could pour His Love and Mercy on us. 

Love according to God always involves Sacrifice....It's not about 'feelings'.

Jesus sacrificed His life for us so that we could be reconciled with God the Father--That is Love. 

For anyone who rejects the sacrifice of Christ, God's wrath remains on Him.  God loved us before we know Him in the sense that He sent Jesus to die on our behalf so that we wouldn't have to die in our sin.  In that sense if you want to say God loves the sinner, but hates the sin, I suppose you could say that, but technically, it's not completely accurate.  It can be misleading.  If God loved the sinner but hates the sin, what's going to stop today's world from going to far as to say 'well then, since He loves me, why can't He just save me the way I am...?'

I spend a fair bit of time evangelizing atheists...and this is always the conclusion they come to.  They say "If God loves me so much, and if He truly is Love, then I don't need to repent because He should just let me go to heaven IF He truly loves me"   but---People have to see their bankruptcy before Him.  They have to see that they have nothing to offer to Him.  They need to see their sin before a Holy and Righteous God...otherwise, are we not just opening the door to hell for them to enter?

Love always speaks the truth--even when it's not popular or well received...even when it's a hard truth.

So-- How do you know God loves YOU-- You know because Jesus died for you and defeated sin and death and rose again Back To Life.  Jesus lives and intercedes on our behalf at the right hand of the Father.  When we do sin...satan accuses us 'look what they did',  BUT- Jesus says 'hands off--This one belongs to me'.

I remember listening to Paul Washer years ago... He was teaching on the gospel message and the Love of God.  He said something to the effect of ..."When we tell people that God loves them there is a most narcissistic response....they think something like (though they may not say it outloud),,, YES-- that's great, we can agree on that because I love me too."  They don't see their sin.  They are not 'poor in Spirit'... they don't see their need for God.

Matthew 5:3 says "3“Blessed are the poor in spirit, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."NASB

the NLT version says:

3“God blesses those who are poor and realize their need for him,^a

for the Kingdom of Heaven is theirs."

 

We have to never stop pointing to Jesus as Saviour and Lord and showing people their need for Him. 

I've seen the desperate need for this because of the time I have spent time talking to atheists about it... They just don't see their need for God...

It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the Living God. (Hebrews 10:31)

 

I'm not suggesting that we should walk around the street holding crazy signs....We need to always speak the truth in Love.  It's tempting to soften the message, but if we're not careful it's like opening the gates of hell wide for a person to enter. 

 

If nothing else, the thing I want you to take away from my post is YES God loves you.  How do you know?  Jesus died for you and rose back to life.

 

Blessings, Carla

 

Permalink Reply by Seek on April 2, 2013 at 7:53am

Coming from something similar to Janie's feelings, I want to touch on this a bit. 

Where it says:  For anyone who rejects the sacrifice of Christ, God's wrath remains on Him.....

I would have something like this hit me wrong time after time.  Thinking since I couldn't feel like Christ died for me, that maybe He did it for everyone else, but maybe I wasn't actually called or chosen, or why else am I not feeling free, saved, etc., that this meant I was rejecting what He did.  But that's not the same.  I haven't rejected it, but I have a hard time believing it is for me, believing I'm loved due to so much wrong love in my past. 

And that goes to your last line:  YES God loves you.  How do you know?  Jesus died for you and rose back to life.

That would send me right back to what I just said.  I didn't know He loved me because I kept thinking He died for those He chose and I must not be chosen to be in such grief and struggling so hard.

And those are FEELINGS.  We FEEL God doesn't love us, because we've been unloved for so long.  We FEEL He's rejected us, FEEL we aren't saved, etc.  And it takes time for feelings to line up with the Word, time and lots of reading the Word.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 2, 2013 at 8:02am

Thanks for sharing this with me beloved...  It's certainly a process particularly when coming from a difficult life. 

I also don't believe that God chooses some people over others.. I'm not a Calvinist.  I am confident to say that Jesus died for the sins of the world, and for who-so-ever will come. 

 

We have to consider all groups of people when we're evangelizing... So many people are coming from a narcissistic worldview (me me  me), but so many others are coming from an abusive past.... some even may have a combination of the two.  God is a personal God and He knows how to reach each one of us....not denying that it will be a process though. :-)

 

Blessings, Carla

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 2, 2013 at 8:05am

Seeking,

I had those exact same feelings while pastoring an Assembly of God Church in Kansas. I was convinced He loved everyone more than myself and that He died for everyone else. I knew I was still sinful and didn't even know if I would make heaven. I was 27. Then, I had a supernatural revelation of God's love and that all changed. The people I was pastoring thought I had gone crazy. I knew beyond doubt that God loved me and that all my sins were covered by His blood. I knew that heaven would be my home for eternity. I was convinced beyond doubt that I was completely and eternally saved.

However, I was loved as a child. I don't think those feelings have a whole lot to do with our environment. I think God wants to show us His love and wants us to swim in it. I think He wants us to be overwhelmed with it. He will not allow us to be comfortable with anything less than really knowing Him. He wants us to think of Him as  our Father. He doesn't want us to be fearful of Him but happy to see Him even when we do wrong. He wants us to praise Him all the more when we fail as we completely understand that it is not by what we do but by what He has done.

Yes, He will discipline us when we do wrong but that is only because of His great love for us. How could we ever doubt His love after reading what He has done for us? He does not want us to have those doubts and fears. I may be a loser in myself, but in Christ I am fantastic. I am victorious. I am an over comer. I am complete. Everything that God requires in me, I have. I do not boast  within myself but I will boast is what He has done. I will boast all the more when I fail. I will boast of my salvation. I will boast of my great Savior. He loves me and I love Him. I will boast in His love and  I will not be ashamed.

Permalink Reply by Carla on April 2, 2013 at 8:08am

Yes.. Amen Roy.  Good word.

Permalink Reply by Seek on April 2, 2013 at 8:10am

Roy I pray and pray for such a similar experience.  I've been prayed for at church for a revelation of God's love, so that when I fall into depression I don't start thinking those thoughts again.  I keep saying I believe He does love me and He's going to work it all out, and then depression overtakes me and all that kinda flies out the window.  And I know if I believe it truly deep deep down in my heart, nothing, not even depression, is going to make me think otherwise. 

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 2, 2013 at 8:18am

Char, my understanding is that feelings are neither right nor wrong. We just have them and they just are. However the things we believe are either right or wrong. When our beliefs line up with God's truth, then we understand that feelings don't determine what is true. We might still struggle with emotions but the truth never changes.

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on April 1, 2013 at 10:19pm

Hi Group,

What an interesting discussion.

 

Let's take a closer look at the word hate......Greek- miseo.....basically - to hate.

In Vine's Complete Expository Dictionary the breakdown includes section c = "of relative preference of one thing over another, by way of expressing either aversion from, or disregard for, the claims of one person or thing relatively to those of another........"

 

That would explain Matthew 6:24, " No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon."

And also explaining Luke 14:26, " If anyone comes to Me and does not hate his father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters, yes, and his own life also, he cannot be My disciple." 

 

Section "c' has to apply here in that we don't have to literally hate family, friends, ourselves, and things on earth, that we won't have any thing to do with them. It means we should love Jesus MORE. ie: My wife and I have always had this understanding: we love each other, been married for 47 years.......but we both believe Jesus is first to each of us before the other.

The Scriptures say that "God hated Esau, but loved Jacob." The Word is saying that God loved Esau LESS than Jacob.

 Also, my personal interpretation of hate can sometimes just get down to completely ignoring someone or something. What is the worst SLAM you can do to somebody?............completely ignore 'em.

I do agree that the statement of God loving the sinner and hating the sin is very mis-leading.

 

Grace and Peace.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 2, 2013 at 8:07am

In Matthew 6:24 Jesus is telling us we can't serve God and mammon. Many are trying it. In Romans 1:25 Saint Paul also tells us about people serving the creature rather than the Creator. The lost are not serving God. The saved are but they start out as babies in Christ. They are growing. God surely does love them as He loves Jesus for they have been accepted into the Beloved. It's not about re-defining man's hate and love. It's about understanding the attributes of God. We can't reduce God to man's level.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 2, 2013 at 4:21am

Hi  All,

I'm not sure how we would want to say, then, that God hates sin but loves the sinner. Richard, I am not thinking that you are saying that God loves sin less that righteousness. Your interpretation as applying to the Luke 14 passage is very good. However, the word hate as specifically referencing certain sins as Carla has specifically made references to in a previous post is certainly within our understood vocabulary of that word. 

It is my understanding that God came to Moses and spoke to him face to face as a neighbor speaks to a neighbor. That is what is reported to us in Numbers. With that in mind, Moses would have gotten a feel for God more than any. He reports to us in Lev 18 certain sexual behaviors we are not to enter into. We receive the instructions that we are not have sexual relations with close relatives, our neighbor's wife, etc. Then Moses speaks of homosexuality and bestiality. The tone seems to change. These are described as detestable and perverted. These are detestable sins. Now, who cares about this? It should not necessarily be our campaign against these sins or any of the sexual sins as described. It is simply ours to report that God's attitude towards these sins is one of disdain that will bring judgment upon a land. He speaks of judgment in that very context.

Now comes the modern day scholar that would say that applies only to the Holy Land and days gone by and not to us today. Yet, that particular sin is once again in the New Testament pointed out as being unnatural and perverted. It remains detestable. There are many other sexual sins. When a man lies with his neighbor's wife, he is committing sin. When a brother has sex with his sister such as Amnon, that is sin but is not perverted. Tabitha was a beautiful girl and Amnon was strongly physically attracted to her. That is natural even though very sinful.

I believe that God hates sexual misbehavior because of the terrible consequences of those sins. For instance: if a man lies with his daughter, think of the damage he is causing his daughter and to himself. He will never be able to live with that and the daughter would struggle with it for many years to come until God gives that healing. None of these sins, however, are sins unto death. All of these sins can be forgiven and the perpetrator can be made whole. I believe that with all my heart. I do believe God does love all these vile sinners that will come to Him in repentance and asking for His help. I do not believe that God winks at any of these sins but hates them. Yet, He will cleanse the sinner and make him whole.

We must maintain that salvation is by grace and by grace alone. Does the man who struggles with pornography and other sins lose his salvation every time he falls to that sin? Or, does God's grace maintain the man's salvation during the time he struggles against his deviant behavior? I believe the latter is true. Jesus pointed out to us that even looking at a woman to lust after her is sexual sin. I think it is clear to us how desperately we need a Savior. I think it is also clear that God does love the sinner so much that He died for his sins. The blood of Jesus cleanses us from all our sin. Do we ever in ourselves overcome all our sin? I don't think so. We need a Savior from start to finish. We all need to keep our eyes focused on Him, the Author and Finisher of our faith.

I believe it is extremely wrong for the church to take the stance of equality in marriage. Marriage, according to Scripture, is between a man and his wife. The two will become one. That is God's Word. We do not have the authority to change that. However, at the same time, we must take the stance that God can forgive all sin. He will forgive all sin. The reason: He loves the sinner. We should all be very grateful for His great love. It covers every single one of the sins that I have mentioned here and multitudes more.

Jesus has saved me from all my sin and for that I am eternally grateful. As a result of that, I am better able to cope with the sins of the flesh even though I still fail. God still hates those sins as they cause so much damage to the perpetrator and the one sinned against. He is our Father and wants us to be free from all these things. He even will  discipline us to teach us not to do these things. However, He will never take away our salvation. His love for us is eternal and will never fail. I love Him more than life.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 2, 2013 at 6:29am

Good word Roy. Amen!

 

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