"Starbucks CEO: If You Support Traditional Marriage, We Don’t Want Your Business"

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on March 26, 2013 at 7:15am

What? Huh? God is sovereign which is why he allowed Hitler to come to power? Can you explain what you mean by that? Plus, why bring Hitler into it?

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on March 26, 2013 at 7:25am

I will answer your question once you have answered mine.

 

You said governments are ordained by God. Did God ordain Hitler?

Your point is that God ordains the government and thus we must obey their man made law if they allow homosexual marriage then God ordained it ... is it not your point? Using that logic then one would have to say that God ordained Hitler and that Hilter's law to execute the Jews is ordained by God. That is absolutely insane and insulting, but that is where your logic takes it.

 

I have to leave, so I cannot respond right away, but  will get back to this.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Permalink Reply by Grazer #E2H on March 26, 2013 at 7:44am

Depends on the law being passed. Abolishing slavery was a good thing but it's hard to find anywhere in the bible to say it should be done, it says we should be nice to slaves. That was a law passed by man to abolish persecution, should we not follow that law then? I doubt you'd say no and whilst it was a Christian who was the main force behind it, many Christians were against it for "biblical" reasons. Hitler was doing the opposite, he was enforcing persecution and discrimination, something I doubt God was too fond of.

They are both (slavery and Hitlers actions) mans laws, it offends us to equate Hitlers actions with God (and rightly so) but not with slavery; yet they are both mans laws. Question is; does God approve of discrimination and persecution or equality? The answer to that drives everything. So no, Hitlers actions were not  God ordained (just remember you brought him into this discussion not me) but slavery could be either yet no one is calling for a return. Same with same-sex marriage. I do not believe in a God who enforces discrimination. What God do you believe in?

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on March 26, 2013 at 2:12pm

Great. We both agree that man's laws have no bearing over God's laws. I introduced Hitler only to get us past a bunch of insignificant debate.  Therefore, regarding the topic of homosexual activiy being sin or not is not dependent upon the decision of any court of man and manmade laws. So, we can simply toss that out of our discussion.

 

Have you ever asked your friends who are gay and celebate why they are celebate. I know people who are saved and still drawn toward the same sex. Many are celebate because they see the homosexual activity as sin and desire to please God.

 

I serve a God who does not discriminate regarding sin. He hates all sin equally. He does not and will not condone sin. Sin has to be paid for and Jesus is the provider of that payment. This payment does not come with the idea that we can ignore sin and pick and choose what we like or dislike. If we love God we will desire to live for Him according to His rules, not ours or swayed by some manmade court.

 

Regarding slavery ... a topic for another day.

If you are willing I am ready to leave this alone, but keep in mind that I cannot walk away as TheNET Coordinator. The move is yours. You stop and I will stop provided others do not chime in that cause me to respond.

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 28, 2013 at 6:14am

Grazer, I just want to say that whatsoever things are noble, whatsoever things are true, whatsoever things are honest, whatsoever things are pure....You get the gist. 

Homosexuality leads to disease, that's a given.  So does smoking.  Drinking leads to losing one's ability to concentrate and focus, to lose inhibitions, and can get one in all kinds of trouble.  Stealing is taking something that another worked for, it is unlawful for many reasons, murder...no need to say why, pretty easy to spot.

There are things the Bible speaks against because they are unhealthy, unproductive, dangerous, and unrighteous above all.  Abolishing slavery was a "good" thing.  It stopped beatings and bad behaviors.  Passing gay marriage goes against what God's Word teaches.  God set up the system of rulers, and He allows them to fall or come to power.  That doesn't mean He controls their actions once in.  He also doesn't control our actions.  He gave us free will to decide.  So you have free will to decide why you feel this does not apply like the rest of scripture:

Leviticus 20:13

King James Version (KJV)

¹³ If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

Romans 1:26-28

King James Version (KJV)

²⁶ For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

²⁷ And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

²⁸ And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Leviticus 18:22

King James Version (KJV)

²² Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Those aren't simply scriptures we can pass over and say well since God said He put the rulers in place, then He must want us to go against the other parts of His Word and agree with what those rulers propose, right or wrong.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 28, 2013 at 8:48am

I'm going to make one more reply which will probably not sit right with many people, but it's my view. It has to do with how many people witness to the lost by saying God loves the sinner but hates the sin.

There are many verses in the Bible that indicate that God's wrath is against the sinner for their sin and not just against the sin itself. God has no pleasure in destroying the wicked, but the wicked who do not ever agree with God about their sin and become born again will spend all of eternity trying to pay the full penalty for those sins and the debt will never get paid. This ought to break our hearts for the lost.

The world is going to act like the world. We can't expect the world to act like the Body of Christ. When God allows ungodly governments to rule over nations it generally is a judgment against that nation, if we can base it on how God acted in the OT with Israel and the many wicked kings that came to power over that nation. So while we're praying for our society, which is more ungodly than godly, to act godly and vote against ungodly laws, let's be praying that God will show mercy upon America and change hearts. Let's be praying that God will give people the gift of faith. We are saved by grace through faith.

Until people are able to see sin as sin, they aren't going to change their lifestyles. As long as sin is justified and legalized and rationalized, people are not going to agree with God about their sin. I know that the recent issue in the news about gay marriage has really shown me how far our nation has gotten away from God. Deeds of darkness need to be exposed.

The point Janie made in her comment is very enlightening as well. It shows how easily people can be deterred from the narrow path. If that dad had only been strong enough in his belief system, then maybe he could have helped his son to see his sin instead of ending up agreeing with his son in the sin. Here's the link. Just food for thought. I don't see the type of sinful lifestyle that someone is caught up in as being any worse than any other type.
They need the Lord. We all still need Him.
http://www.livingwaters.com/witnessingtool/howshouldiwitnesstoahomo...

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 28, 2013 at 9:15am

Amanda... very well said.  Amen and Amen.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 28, 2013 at 11:41am

I didn't expect any amens :) I expected verses stating God's unconditional love, which, when understood correctly, isn't disputable, and, maybe it's I who have it backwards, but I think many others are getting it backwards. Homosexuality is not the root of the problem, alcoholism is not, adultery is not, pedophilia is not, what ever the habitual sin is not the problem.

Those are things that Jesus said come out of the heart.  18 But the things that come out of a person’s mouth come from the heart, and these defile them. 19 For out of the heart come evil thoughts—murder, adultery, sexual immorality, theft, false testimony, slander (Matthew 15). And my understanding is that people are born in a lost condition.

The problem is the unchanged heart. Once again I point to Ephesians 5:13-14:
But everything exposed by the light becomes visible—and everything that is illuminated becomes a light. 14 This is why it is said:
“Wake up, sleeper,
    rise from the dead,
    and Christ will shine on you.”
Once the heart is changed, what comes from it will begin changing, too, yes or no? We also have to remember that those born again start out as mere babies spiritually. 

As a final thought, I'm still going to Starbucks. I really like triple venti lattes. Here, they don't cost 8 bucks, just a little over $3 and if you use skim milk and no sugar, they aren't fattening. Triple means there are three shots of espresso so it's like getting three cups of coffee, which averages out at $1 per cup. It's so good ... Lol. My point is we can fight fire with fire but we can't fight darkness with darkness. And I'm not saying anyone here in this discussion is doing that -- I'm saying I'm not going to do that anymore. Father, let the Holy Spirit lead us. Let His fire light our way. In Jesus' name. Amen.

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 28, 2013 at 11:42am

Only thing I go to Starbucks for is gooey hot chocolate, about once a year.  LOL  They don't get much from this non-coffee drinker.

Permalink Reply by Tammy on March 25, 2013 at 4:03pm

No problem. I don't like paying $8 for a cup of coffee anyways.

Permalink Reply by Carla on March 25, 2013 at 5:26pm

yup.. agreed..  AND it's fattening.....there are lots of calories in a starbucks coffee....yuck--no thanks.

Permalink Reply by ribbon on March 28, 2013 at 8:47am

Good stuff Seek Ye first.....

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 3
• 4
• 5
• 6
• 7
• …
• 10
• Next ›
• Page