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Four General Belief Systems: Which is yours?

Ok, I've been in a pit of depression over quite a lot of things taking place over the last week and a half that I won't even go into.  I'm still not sure where I stand internally right now.  But it seems every time I go through these, I come out with something to say. 

So as I sat listening half-heartedly to the sermon tonight, it was all about faith.  It was....James 1:6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.  It was God can't help you unless YOU (by yourself) have faith and speak positive and change your words.  I sat there getting more upset by the sermon than I already was.

On the drive home I realized that I have heard basically four principal beliefs.  And thereby many of the reasons we have so many denominations.  Please tell me which you believe and why you believe it.  I will tell you which I believe and why I believe it, then I will tell you what came to me as to why you AND I believe as we do.

The Four General Belief Systems:

1.  The above message that without faith, it is impossible to please God.

2.  A step further that there is life and death in the tongue, that we must speak a thing into existence (name it and claim it?)

3.  That God won't do anything outside His will no matter what we speak or pray.  We gave this world to satan and God will step in where necessary but for the most part, satan's going to hit us with everything he can.

4.  That God will step in and show Himself in our lives and solidify our faith/belief.  That He will bring it to pass and "Lord I believe, but help my unbelief (doubt)". 

I believe #4 is closer to the truth for many reasons.  This passage in particular.  Jesus did not tell the man go away you doubter.  He also didn't spit in the face of doubting Thomas but instead stuck out His hands.  God certainly is pleased by faith, but He ALSO said He came to heal the brokenhearted. 

What does a brokenhearted person look like? 

bro·ken·heart·ed

adjective \-ˈhär-təd\
: overcome by grief or despair
a. 1. Having the spirits depressed or crushed by grief or despair.

de·spair

verb \di-ˈsper\

intransitive verb

: to lose all hope or confidence em>despair of winning>

Hmmm, interesting.  So God heals people who have lost all hope or confidence.  Brokenhearted people, people who have suffered one traumatic blow after another throughout their lives perhaps, have learned:  You can't trust, you have nothing to hope for, life stinks, it's every man for themself to survive, no one cares, people lie, etc. 

So how does God heal this without doing things in your life to show you that He's there, that He hears, cares?  That means #4 is true....God will step in and show Himself to solidify our faith/belief. 

So here's the kicker.  Does that make #1 a lie?  No.  And therein lies the answer to:  So why is it that #1 says the man who is double-minded (doubts) won't receive anything and #4 says I believe but help my unbelief (doubt) and Jesus helped the man?

Going back to the discussions of....does scripture contradict itself?  How would you explain these two verses side-by-side?

Well here is how I explained them tonight in my head driving home.

The Bible wasn't written to Paul.  It wasn't written to the Corinthians.  It wasn't written to the Philippians, the Gentiles, the Jews....the Bible was written to EVERYONE. 

It was written to Joe Blow who grew up in a loving home, attended church faithfully, accepted Christ at the age of 8, has a strong mental capacity, is a go-getter, graduated college and met his loving wife of 20 years raising 2 kids who he now puts through college and his dog Bruno.

It was written to Jane Doe who's father molested her, who's mother turned her back to it all and berated her for it, who had health issues most of her life, who's family never showed her love, never bought a dog, and kicked her out of the house pregnant at 16 so she could be beaten by the father of her child for the next few years.  Maybe heard the Gospel preached for the first time at the age of 25.  She now comes to Christ, dejected, hurt, unable to trust, unable to love, emotionally scarred.

Message #1 is going to be a slap in her face and message #4 won't appeal to forceful Joe. 

And here's where the church I believe falls into so many problems.  We split off.  We label one another.  We start tossing out the term false prophets. 

In 2 Peter 2:1 it speaks of false prophets who deny the Master.  Matthew 24:24 speaks of false Christs/Messiahs.  Galatians 1:6 says "I marvel that you are turning away so soon from Him who called you in the grace of Christ, to a different gospel."

The Gospel is the Gospel of Christ, the message of Christ Jesus, son of God, come down in the flesh, died on the cross and rose again.  The message is to be like Christ.  The false prophets teaching a false gospel are those teaching something other than Christ.  They are not those who teach you can speak in tongues, you can't speak in tongues, you can cast out demons, you can't cast out demons, you can speak it and claim, God will bring you through and give you revelation. 

I am praying fervently that I do not keep falling into despair.  I likely have sleep apnea and after my sleep study have been scheduled for a CPAP mask study.  I have hormonal issues that hopefully a minor operation sometime soon in the future I hope will take care of, and I have major traumatic childhood experiences and current experiences in life that go on and on without a seeming end.  Yet right now, perhaps the despair, these events, are all so that I have something to impart.  And what I impart here...let's stop beating each other down and shouting out false gospel.  Instead let us realize we are all from different backgrounds, different personalities, and way different life experiences.  And the Bible is written in such a way that it has a message for us all depending upon where WE are personally at.  It is not meant to be something we beat each other over the head with using A scripture.

So the next time someone has a doubt, rather than say "Let not the double-minded man think he should receive anything from God", tell him "Lord he believes, but help his unbelief".  Because one message helps him and the other doesn't.  Which do you think Jesus would impart to him?  The message of hope or the message of get away from me you worthless doubter?

I know this is long and if you read this far bless you.  And I'm hoping for some opinions on this.  This is what came to me tonight.  You may have a different opinion of it, for better or worse.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 14, 2013 at 1:11pm

Faith comes by hearing and hearing comes by the word of God. You implement a teaching of the word and you see the results, at times, you see the results the bible specified after years at other times you see immediate results, it depends in what God is working in the person and the response of the person.

 

Love and blessings to you sis

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 14, 2013 at 2:39pm

Well Chip.  I never realized you were such a sappy music kinda guy.  LOL 

I'm once again gradually feeling better but still got an awful lot of unanswered nagging questions and concerns.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on February 15, 2013 at 4:59am

Faith is a system that enables us to believe even when things are not going our way. It is easy to believe when things are going well. But, what about when we are really going through it? Do we still believe? How do we react during times like this:

Isa 24:10-13
10 The ruined city lies desolate;
the entrance to every house is barred.
11 In the streets they cry out for wine;
all joy turns to gloom,
all gaiety is banished from the earth.
12 The city is left in ruins,
its gate is battered to pieces.
13 So will it be on the earth
and among the nations,
as when an olive tree is beaten,
or as when gleanings are left after the grape harvest. NIV

We do not like difficult times. How do we react when the gaiety is gone? How do we respond to times when we feel we are being beaten? These are the times that define us. I get so tired of hearing the prosperity gospel. It is not a true gospel. It is not one promised us in Scripture. Sometimes it appears that we have lost everything. There is nothing left. There is no reason to rejoice in the streets. We have been struck down. Yet, that is the true times when we can truly see God. Faith is surviving wind, fire and water. Faith is going through the tough times. Faith is experiencing all this old earth has to throw at us and coming through refined as pure gold as by the fire. That is the only faith that has any value. All other is just wishful thinking.

Faith is being able to say to our fellow man, " You can do it." Faith is being able to experience our absolute total weaknesses and realize that the strength of our walls are His salvation. Our defense become impenetrable. We conquer. We win. We are more than conquerors. We realize our life is in Him. It is over. The battles have been fought. We now understand He is taking us through these valleys that seem like death only to bring us to total victory. Our faith is still there. We have faced the giant and slain the wicked one.

We win! Fire hurts but it brings forth gold that has been refined. I see some real jewels here.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 15, 2013 at 5:37am

Roy,

Preach it , brother. Well said.

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on February 15, 2013 at 6:00am

Hallelujah - Amen! Good word Roy.

 

That placed a smilie in my heart.

 

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 15, 2013 at 6:41am

Faith is experiencing all this old earth has to throw at us and coming through refined as pure gold as by the fire.

What I hear over and over is that faith is going through all of that with a smile on your face and pure joy, all the while saying, oh well, satan can't hurt me.  I've heard faith is about lying to ourselves and those around us, to "pretend" we don't really hurt when we do, to smile when we want to cry so we don't make others feel bad around us, to jump with joy and shout and worship with enthusiasm even when we feel like curling up on the pew and bawling.  I hear faith is about never ever getting angry at God and if we do we should be ashamed of ourselves (feel condemned) for daring to do such a thing and that even if we don't understand, even if we are in it and having to deal with it, we can never say God where are You, WHY or why didn't You do something. 

So when I go through those exact questions and thoughts, and I'm so hurt I can't read my Bible for days or even up to a week a couple of times, when I can't pray because all I can do is cry, I get told I'm not trusting God and haven't died to self, and those words condemn and hurt me just as much as the incident that put me there.  With encouraging words that God will bring me through it and that we all go through times of doubt (admitting it or not) and that God won't abandon me even if I have gotten angry with Him, He understands, I could probably pull back out of it faster.  But it's almost like some people love digging a knife into our backs and twisting it sometimes. 

And as I sat and listened to Wednesday night's sermon, it was exactly that.  I've gotten several pieces of bad news the last week or so, still having some health issues AND that hormonal period struck up at the same exact time (of course).  I know the guys don't get this, but let's just think about when you have worked 12 hour shifts for 6 straight days and your wife wants you to get up at 8 a.m. Saturday and mow the lawn.  You'll come up out of that bed with a bad case of the hormonal mood shifts right fast even without hormones.  Trust me on that. 

So I'm battling that along with all the other stuff and it puts me into a bout of depression that goes for days or a week at times.  And the pastor can SEE I'm depressed.  He knows it.  So what does he preach?  He belittles people who are depressed and aren't shouting and praising like they should be (dig), he accuses us of not receiving the same message (twist), he talks about the good seed of which the depressed folks aren't (stab).  Many of his sermons lately are all about reaching out to the hurting in our community.  He can't even reach the hurting in his own pews.  :-(

I still love my church, the people for the most part.  We have really great children's and youth ministries.  And for the most part, I love my pastor's preaching.  But he scores -100 on the empathy/sympathy scale. 

I'm still in Proverbs now that I've picked my Bible back up to read again last night.  And I had left off after Chapter 26.  So here I begin reading in Chapter 27....

Proverbs 27:23 Be sure you know the condition of your flocks, give careful attention to your herds;

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 15, 2013 at 7:46am

What I hear over and over is that faith is going through all of that with a smile on your face and pure joy, all the while saying, oh well, satan can't hurt me.  I've heard faith is about lying to ourselves and those around us, to "pretend" we don't really hurt when we do, to smile when we want to cry so we don't make others feel bad around us, to jump with joy and shout and worship with enthusiasm even when we feel like curling up on the pew and bawling.  I hear faith is about never ever getting angry at God and if we do we should be ashamed of ourselves (feel condemned) for daring to do such a thing and that even if we don't understand, even if we are in it and having to deal with it, we can never say God where are You, WHY or why didn't You do something.

Char, how about faith relating to simply having a real and vibrant relationship with Jesus that will include highs and lows in this life as we go through various trials and tribulation while at the same time we have an awareness of Him, trust in Him and a view our eternal future ever before us?

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 15, 2013 at 7:50am

Ok but what's your definition of "real and vibrant relationship"?

To some it means when I hurt, I shouldn't even, even slightly, get angry with God, even if I don't understand and He knows I hurt.  To others it means we stop even caring about anything in this world, such as caring about even if a family member is suffering, because we trust Jesus so much that it somehow magically takes away all other concern and miraculously washes out any worry or any feelings we have.  We're not supposed to walk by feelings, but we have feelings nonetheless, and in fact were created with feelings. 

So how you define this real and vibrant relationship may differ from another's idea on how having such a relationship should affect us and that's when it starts to muddy things for some people.  As far as I can tell, I do have a real and vibrant relationship.  But it doesn't stop me from hurting or questioning why.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 15, 2013 at 7:53am

Know He exists, be real in that relationship and yet treat Him with reverance as God. That means being honest in your coomunication with Him, David was. That relationship will not stop you from hurting or questioning why. What it does is give you a peace, hope and comfort because you know that He will walk with you through the storm and that the end of the story is in His hands.

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 15, 2013 at 7:58am

I get the peace, hope and comfort, when my mind is quiet, and when I'm able to listen without falling asleep....going for my CPAP study tonight that will hopefully take care of this.  My sleep study last week shows possible sleep apnea due to either stress, a 1991 car accident neck injury, or the heart conditions I was born with. 

But when something hits me hard, it blind sides me for a bit.  Or I fall into a bit of depression during a hormonal stage.  And during those times, I can't hear Him at all and can't have any peace because I'm hurting and crying too much. 

Some folks act like if we have those moments, we're no good.  And sorry to say, but that kinda irritates me and gets me a bit peeved.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on February 15, 2013 at 8:03am

Char,

Everyone has bad moments. We all are affected by something and that will differ from person to person, will vary in degrees and in length of time. That is called being human living in the fallen flesh that exists in a fallen world filled with fallen people and has an enemy who wars against us. Life is hard, but our true joy is not based on this world. Our true joy is based on our relationship with our Savior who has given us so many promises to hold on to while we make our way through this difficult life.

I will add that you have grown tremendously, but that does not mean that we will not have set backs or tough times. Yet, God is with you and that is not a cliche ... it is the truth!!!

Permalink Reply by Seek on February 15, 2013 at 8:08am

Hmmm

Most of the Pentecostal beliefs I was raised on I believe in, but in being in this, I'm coming to realize that the belief that we're supposed to have this beautific peaceful look of serenity on our face when the doctor tells us we're dying is a load of bunk.  At least that is how they are preaching it and it's left me with even more turmoil because I couldn't seem to find that kind of peace in the middle of all that's going on.  That's kept me thinking I'm not getting it or something...that something is wrong with me if I can't trust God enough to have that perfect calm. 

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