Jesus & the Holy Spirit

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 13, 2012 at 6:26pm

Yes, and it was taught to Him, correct?

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 13, 2012 at 6:46pm

He said His teaching comes from God. Did He have to learn it during His earthly life? I don't know but I have always believed He already knew it because He is God.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 13, 2012 at 6:59pm

Yet, He did what the Father told Him and not His own will? I believe it was revealed to Him because of the veil he willfully took on we He clothed Himself in human flesh.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 13, 2012 at 6:37pm

I said and then You said:


But however Jesus resisted Satan, we know Jesus was relying upon God (whether it was of His own deity or of Holy Spirit) and not the flesh. Can we agree on that part? :)
I agree to a degree. The problem I have is in the wording here. He is God and thus if operating on His own He need not depend on God, for He is God, but If He subjected Himself as a man to the ways and principles of this world and required the help of the Comforter to overcome as a man He does two things. He gets the full experience of being a man that enables Him to operate as the High Priest with experience that associates with us and He sets the example of what God can do through a life surrendered to the will of the Father. With that last statement do not focus on the miracles that Jesus was prepared to do, but rather a life that did what the Father had planned for Him to do. Each of us will do different things as we are all part of God’s plan with pieces to accomplish.

This is the whole part that I am struggling with and believe it is very important to understand.

Jesus was and is fully God and fully man. No matter what, He does get the full experience of being both. I, on the other hand, am never going to be both. So how can I ever hope to live the life He lived during His earthly ministry? I can barely hope to just live the life He would have me live during my time left here. But if He was only a man here and lived as a man filled with the Spirit, having chosen to set aside His own deity although still fully God, then why aren't there more people doing what He did? There's never been anyone like Jesus. The apostles did many things but nothing like that.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 13, 2012 at 6:51pm

Each miracle had a purpose beyond just being a miracle. If the purpose was fulfilled is there a need to replicate the miracle?

 

Regarding "The apostles did many things but nothing like that." Think of all the miracles Jesus did and try to name the ones that no one else did according to Scripture. Before you do that ponder the root of the miracle. For example, Jesus fed the five thousand with a very little physical resources. He manipulated the laws of nature and multiplied a substance. Elisha told a woman to collect jars and oil poured out until every jar was full. Jesus calmed the storm. He manipulated the weather. Elijah prayed and it did not rain for three years. Jesus walked on water and Elijah made an axe head float. Jesus raised the dead and so did Peter. You get the point. Only Jesus could be the Lamb of God, but what of the miracles? All of these came by the power of God for a purpose.

 

I think you are looking at the glass have empty. If God set the example, and I believe He did, as to how a man can live surrendered to the Holy Spirt we have something to aspire towards. If Jesus lived "as" God while in the flesh then we cannot ever hope to emulate Him.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 13, 2012 at 7:08pm

I am going to agree with you based on something that Jesus said. 28 Then Jesus, still teaching in the temple courts, cried out, “Yes, you know me, and you know where I am from. I am not here on my own authority, but he who sent me is true. You do not know him, 29 but I know him because I am from him and he sent me.” (John 7). He never used His own deity while on earth. He was not here on His own authority. I see it now.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 13, 2012 at 7:13pm

:-)

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 13, 2012 at 8:36pm

When you said "Let’s use a different term for His power as God. He has all authority, but may choose to not use the authority and rely on the authority of another, the Holy Spirit" and I have been studying John 7 and 8 and suddenly it clicked based on the word "authority." 

Now, this brings me back to my initial post where I said:

Jesus was and is forever God incarnate. All my life I have believed Jesus lived from the strength of His divine nature and did miracles from it as well. I believed it wasn't that He didn't sin but that He couldn't sin because God by definition can't sin. I believed when Jesus left earth, He sent the Comforter in His place to help us and to fill us. But I'm not so sure about this anymore ...

So now I see that Jesus did not use His own deity while on earth but did live and minister as a human only and was dependent upon the power of the Holy Spirit. 

I thought that if I did adopt this POV -- that Jesus lived and ministered as a human, dependent on the power of the Holy Spirit, then I must also adopt the belief that, as fully human, Jesus could have sinned but relied upon the Holy Spirit and overcame.

I see that I was right in believing that Jesus was impeccable and was never in danger of sinning because He is God and was God and always will be God.

I don't think Jesus was ever afraid that He would sin or would fail. I think He knew what would be the outcome when He faced Satan. I think fasting and praying helped prepare Him spiritually to resist Satan even though it made Him physically weak. He was subjecting the flesh but His flesh was not fallen.

I had asked if it could be possible that Jesus did not know He could not sin. But I doubt He would have that kind of self unawareness. I think He knew He could not sin and never feared that He would sin. No matter how tired or hungry or weak or thirsty He became, He knew he would not sin. So the weakness of his flesh would never have mattered when it came to resisting Satan. We, on the other hand, do sin and face temptation knowing that we are able to sin and that makes the life of Jesus different from ours.

Do you think Jesus ever walked in the flesh, then, but lived as a man filled with the Spirit and was always walking in the Spirit? None of us are able to do this as far as I know ... at least not 24/7. That makes the life of Jesus different from ours.

Also, did Jesus use faith to do the miracles? I have always believed that Jesus did not need faith in Himself or to do the miracles because He is God but if He did them as a man through the power of the Holy Spirit, did He need faith to do them, as we need faith?

I agree with you that Jesus did not use His deity while on earth and Jesus could not sin. I have always thought that Jesus knew who He was. I know He testified at age twelve about His Father. Maybe He did have to be taught everything including learning who He was but knew it all by age twelve. I guess I don't really need to know those things. But I believe in Him and I love Him because He first loved me. Yet I fail in many ways.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 14, 2012 at 3:17am

This morning, I've decided to go along with what I have always known and that is the fact that Jesus did for me what I can never do for myself no matter how much I surrender or am filled with the Spirit or seek to do the Father's will instead of my own will. 

Jesus lived a perfectly sinless life, fully satisfying the Father's righteousness and then Jesus made the perfect sacrifice of Himself, fully satisfying the Father's justice. Jesus is the Resurrection and the Life. 

Until I experience the resurrection, I will have a fallen flesh for as long as I am in the world. When I am absent from the body and present with the Lord, I will no longer have the ability to sin. When I receive the resurrection, my flesh will no longer have the ability to sin. Jesus began a good work in me, and He will finish it. 

One day there will be no more sin, sorrow, sickness, or death. For now, I am in the battle of living in a fallen world and a fallen flesh. I need the Savior just as much now as i did before I was born again. In the OT there were several people who were anti-types of Christ but none of them was able not to sin. If I could go back and be Adam in Eden, I would choose the tree of life instead of making the choice Adam made. But that's only because of everything that has happened since Adam made that choice. Otherwise, I would have made the same choice Adam made. 

Jesus did the Father's will without erring. Jesus said, Has not Moses given you the law? Yet not one of you keeps the law. John 7:19

Jesus kept it completely. No one ever did before Him and no one ever will after Him. 

Heb 10:5-10 Therefore, when Christ came into the world, he said:

"Sacrifice and offering you did not desire,
but a body you prepared for me; 
6 with burnt offerings and sin offerings
you were not pleased. 
7 Then I said, 'Here I am — it is written about me in the scroll — 
I have come to do your will, O God.'"  

8 First he said, "Sacrifices and offerings, burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not desire, nor were you pleased with them" (although the law required them to be made). 9 Then he said, "Here I am, I have come to do your will." He sets aside the first to establish the second. 10 And by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all. NIV

I am forever grateful for what Jesus has already done for me and for what He is going to do for me in the Resurrection. 

Yes, there is a right way to live and a right reason to live that way and as I battle the fallen flesh in a fallen world, I fail in many ways, while waiting for the time when the world and the flesh will neither be fallen anymore. Yet, because of Christ, I am acceptable to the Father. Jesus did for me what I will never be able to do for myself. 

There's no need for you to trouble yourself with replying to my last response.

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 14, 2012 at 3:53am

Good word ... amen!!!

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on December 12, 2012 at 4:04am

Tam,

I haven't read every post that is here but I didn't see a post on the Trinity. Jesus is the Son and Holy Spirit is the Comforter. Two different Persons. Then, there is the Father. They are 3 different Persons. They make One God. An interesting version of the Bible is the Reese Chronological Bible. It attempts to line up the Bible as it happened. The interesting part, to me, is the life of Christ.

Because there are other important players in His life, and the fact that they had to be ready, I believe that is why He didn't have a public ministry until He did.

I was thinking about the time, at age 12, when He got separated from His parents, and was found with the teachers in the temple. John also said that if everything that Christ did was written, the world couldn't contain the books.

Hope this helps some.

Blessings.....

Rita

• ▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Tammy on December 12, 2012 at 4:55pm

Thank you Rita

• ▶ Reply

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• …
• 6
• 7
• 8
• 9
• 10
• 11
• Next ›
• Page