All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
tithing
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi Brothers and Sisters,
I've had the privilege of being an elder and then pastor for 25+ years now.
This subject of giving to the work of the Lord is usually not looked forward to with great relish. Our personal financial resourses are close to our hearts. That's why Jesus says in Matthew 6:21, ' for where your treasure is, there will your heart be also."..............A nd if we look at it, the reverse also holds true = Where our heart is, that's where our money goes.
The tithe debate is as old as the hills.
Here's a point that few have noticed......Genesis 14: 20," And blessed be God Most High, Who has delivered your enemies into your hand. And he gave him a tenth of all." (N.A.S.B., bold type added).
This is Abram giving Melchizedek, king of Salem, a tenth of the booty collected in battle spoils.........A tithe given long before the Law was given.
Personally, I get a little weary of hearing "the tithe is for those under the Law."
My feeling is if anyone whats to use a tenth of their income as a base for their spiritual giving...............AMEN.
Oh, and for the debate of giving, based on gross pay or net pay..........Do you want your blessings before.....or after......taxes?
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Rich,
Abraham did not tithe as the modern church tithes, nor did he tithe regularly from his income or work. The tithe he gave, a one-time tithe was customary practice in the ancient world. It was a tithe from the spoils, not from first fruits. The Jews ended up paying approximately 23% of their income, not just 10 percent, because they lived in a theocracy.
New Testament born again believers are not commanded by God to tithe, UNLESS THE HOLY SPIRIT TELLS AND INDIVIDUAL TO DO SO.
Check out this vid:
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The Truth About Tithing
by
Tony CapocciaThis article is copyrighted © 1999. All rights reserved.
Tithing is an Old Testament command that was for the Jews and was in reality their "taxation" system. The tithe consisted of the Temple tax, the Land Sabbath Tax, and the Special Profit-Sharing Tax (leaving the corners unharvested, for the poor). The required giving for the Jew was approximately 25 percent per year. In addition to all of this there was voluntary giving in the Old Testament which included first-fruit giving and freewill offerings.The emphasis here was not on a percentage but on the attitude of the giver and the quality of the gift. The point is that "tithing" is an Old Testament practice that was equivalent to our modern-day tax structure. Tithes were not gifts at all, but were required giving. In the New Testament things really have not changed, for the Christian is still required to pay his taxes to support the government. This taxation is the New Testament equivalent of Tithing. But the Tithe is no longer a part of the "religious system" of a Theocracy, rather our "tithe" today is simply the taxation system of a Democracy. The only references in the New Testament to tithing is to Jews and their requirement to support their religious system of government.
The New Testament does teach that a Christian should give to God but only in the sense that it is freewill giving from the heart. While no specific percentage is given, we are to give: 1. In response to need - Acts 4:35, Acts 11:27-29 2. In a systematic and purposeful manner – 2 Cor. 9:7, 2 Cor. 16:2 3. In a sacrificial way that "costs" us - Mark 12:41-44, Luke 19:8 4. In a secret and humble way - Matthew 6:1-4 5. In a cheerful manner - 2 Cor. 9:7
Now some will get all excited if we say that the requirement to tithe is not for the church. They will say that the church will go "broke" in a week if the people are told that they don't have to tithe. I would remind them that if the church is supported because Christians are wrongly taught to tithe then we need to stop that practice. Many churches today would have to "cease operations" if their tithe were taken away. But the churches that God wants to exist would continue to be supported by freewill offerings of the people. God said, "Seek my Kingdom and my Righteousness and all these things will be given to you." If a church will preach and teach God's truth and not man's tradition then she will "never" lack for the money she needs. One writer put it this way, "God's work done God's way will never lack God's provision."
I believe some churches today exist because they have convinced many to tithe, when in reality the church itself is not teaching the truths of the Bible. For many pastors it is easier to teach people to tithe than to teach them to be holy people of God who would then give from their hearts because of their deep love of their Savior.
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Char,
God has designed our walk to be such that we MUST depend on the leading of the Spirit to accomplish many things in the body of Christ and/or our lives. God has also given us clear instructions on how to deal with an abundance of topics, but with this topic, the topic of giving, he has chosen that the Holy Spirit will lead us to how much He wants us to give on an individual basis. If you however want to practice a practice that you are not commanded to practice, because _______ (fill in the blank), that is fine and acceptable before God as long as you remember that what is sin to us is sin according to Romans 14-15. So if you think that tithing is what you are suppose to do and don't do it and your conscious condemns you, than that is sin.
You could use tithing as a starting point. I give to the church, I will never say how much, for that is between me and my Lord, but I give joyfully and according to the leading of the Spirit. Sometimes that calls for more than tithing at other times less and still other times God tells me to meet the needs of a member and skip giving to the church for that week etc... I do according to how God leads me and not a command that is not meant for New Testament believers.
If there is one thing I can tell you about my Lord is that He is faithful. Oh our Lord is beautiful in his faithfulness. If you like tithing, praise God beloved. Keep on keeping on, but to teach (not saying you are) that tithing is a MUST for New Testament believers is a duty and a command is to lie and not tell the truth.
Blessings to you
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Char,
My following statements may come off as arrogant, especially to those that do not know me, but I pray God's Spirit bears witness of what my heart is stating.
Let me start by saying that a teachable a spirit is a MUST in order to be pleasing to God and to grow into his likeness. We must all be willing to learn and modify our understanding of scripture when we are showed with God's word what the truth of a subject is. I have modified my believes in multiple doctrines as I have grown in understanding. Is my prayer that we all have such an attitude.
Endeavoring to understand the word of God is not a futile effort, but the most rewarding one and by no means am I saying you are saying the contrary, but in many of your posts you allude to how scripture is not clear or at least you allude to the difficulty to come to a concrete doctrinal conclusions based on the whole/entire consul of the word of God. God did not give us a revelation that is not intelligible or confusing. He gave us one that takes a lot of study, but not one that we can never comprehend in totality for the most. Most doctrinal topics and issues are not up for individual interpretation, though of course we all wrestle with our understanding against the authors intended meaning of the passages. But is not a wrestleling with the text that will never cease in most of the doctrinal issues we are called to study.
Testing the Spirits means to test the teaching, motives of those approaching us, with teachings, among other things, but we have the Spirit of God and nothing else in us. We have God's Spirit who has Promised us to lead us to ALL truth, that pursue of truth will look differently in each person at times and take longer in some than others, there is something to be said for those that have a teachable attitude.
I do not agree with your following statement at all: "So therefore I will never claim to be absolutely right on any subject as frankly none of us ever can be." What a horrible thing that would be if your statement was to be true. I love this walk God has called me to because in him we have the absolute truth. A truth that we can be 100% sure to be right. Now it will take us sifting through many different interpretations, but if we keep a teachable spirit as you mentioned and we continue to study God's word, asking for wisdom and to apply what we learn, we can be assure that we will get to the place of doctrinal maturity in Christ. It takes years and a life time for some and some don't ever get there, they are ok with just believing the Gospel and do not feel compelled to get to the bottom of other issues. I suppose that is fine for them, but for some there is a burning heart to know the truth, so we can practice and teach the truth. A truth that can be known and grasp. We do not serve an author of confusion, we serve a God of order and truth, absolute truth and as his people, we have the amazing privilege to know and treasure of the word and share that truth to all who want to hear it. Some will not want to hear it, even though they love God, but that should not deter us from shouting the truth at every corner.
You say scripture can be interpreted in so many different ways, and that is true, but it should not be so, we are to come to the unity of the knowledge of Christ and God has given us the Holy Spirit to accomplish that task. It is for us to know the mysteries of God's revealed revelation, as scripture states. Is a long and frustrating process for some at times, but it has been nothing but joy for me.
Scripture only has one intended meaning by the author, our job is not to find out what scripture means ”to me," but what God says that scripture means and then is my duty to align to that truth, even if it means I let go of familiar errors.
Tithing is not among the topics that we will never know what the truth is, not even close, is it not as difficult as how God's sovereignty and men's ability to choose, his liberties, work together, again, not even close. This topic has been debated through the ages as many others have stated, because men is sinful and would rather continue in error at times than to adjust to God's truth for whatever reason. We can absolutely say without a problem that tithing is not commanded for the New Testament church, check out this point by point video on the subject, how can anyone kick against such clear truth? Well I know how, human traditions etc run deep:
God is not simply giving us a guide but specific instructions. You keep saying God is simply giving us a guide, what kind of God would that make our God; God has given us the absolute truth period dot dot. That is not up for personal interpretation. He has given us the absolute truth. It will take study, beautiful joyful study to get to the truth in view that Satan has been busy from the garden until today twisting God's truth, but that does not mean that we can't come to definite answers and truth. Especially in topics such as this one. This is not quantum physics, where there are no concrete guidelines to follow, this is simply the topic of tithing, in which there has been an abundance of false teaching, but we can know the truth of this and all topics in scripture.
>>I love giving to my church and I love giving to others as well, not one OR the other, but to both.
Awesome - amen to that. It is beautiful to give. Oh my, it is just wonderful to give; I love to give - Hallelujah!!! It is good to be in the truth.
>>I've always been taught to tithe, so is it sin to not do what religion teaches us or sin to not do what the Spirit teaches? And how do you differentiate between the two until you've spent a long time walking with God and know His voice above all the religious clammer you've been taught?
Are we called to please men or God, the answer is obviously God. What does God have to say about the subject that should be our priority? Test all things. Question all that I have said and test my spirit to see if the Spirit bears witness of it, but when you are face with truth regardless of how uncomfortable it makes us, adopt the truth, be willing to change for him. I love few men that have loved me enough to spend their time sharing truth with me. I have really never had that, God, his word and minister through videos has helped me, but how I love them for helping me in my search for God's truth and not my own understanding.
If anyone in this site can show me with scripture that we are called to tithe, I would love you even more, I would love you for helping me see the truth, I have no problem changing, conforming and modifying my views, to his truth, but scripture must compel me and not human teachings and traditions.
Sister Char - our God is not a God of confusion and this topic is should not confuse us after we have done some research. We can know the truth; only the truth sets us free. God has given us more than a guide:
Proverbs 1
The proverbs of Solomon son of David, king of Israel:
2 for gaining wisdom and instruction;
for understanding words of insight;
3 for receiving instruction in prudent behavior,
doing what is right and just and fair;
4 for giving prudence to those who are simple,[a]
knowledge and discretion to the young—
5 let the wise listen and add to their learning,
and let the discerning get guidance—
6 for understanding proverbs and parables,
the sayings and riddles of the wise.[b]7 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge,
but fools[c] despise wisdom and instructionTell me scripturally why we should tithe, don't just tell me your belief; tell me with scripture, it is a worthwhile effort. It is the most valuable and most profound effort in our lives.
We are called to live for Christ, not a life of Sacrifice. Our walk at times may involve many aspects of sacrifice, but our live in Christ is the most amazing life. Again I may sound arrogant or I don't know how it comes off, but life in Christ is beautiful, to me is not a sacrifice, but a privilege. Yes, at times we sacrifice personal things etc, but that does not compare to the joy of the Lord, here and now.
Again Char, your opinion is simply your opinion. Unless you show scripture and interpret that scripture in light of the whole consul of God and in context, which is available to us, it is only your opinion. The truth is worth digging for, it is a joyful thing.
Blessings beloved.
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Char,
It's ok beloved. It's all good. I Love you all and I am not here to win (not saying you are) arguments, just to teach the truth, which I take EXTREMELY SERIOUS, I will be held accountable for every word that comes out of my mouth or write down.
I love you all enough to spend the time teaching truth, but I am under no delusion that not all will agree or like it. I am only call to do as God commands me to do, all else is beyond my control, but if anyone here can love me enough to take the time to help me out of error should you see me be in error, I would surely love you and thank God for you.
Blessings family.
One thing only:
>>Not even gonna attempt it cause every scripture I could give in reference to tithing, you could refute with some other scripture and it becomes a tit for tat and I'm outta tats except in my hair.
It doesn't have to be so, it can be a loving, learning, exciting exchange of God's people, who love sharing, learning and modifying their views, to God's truth. There is only one truth about the subject, not two, we can both be wrong, but we can't both be right and if we have a teachable Spirit, when we are confronted with the truth we will love it and embrace it.
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Char,
I will harp on this one thing:
God's truth is only one. Every verse in scripture only means one thing, when studied and guided by the teaching of the Holy Spirit. It may have more than one application, but in context and in light of scripture, it only means ONE thing. Scripture is not up for private interpretation. Private interpretation is horrendous and what has placed the body in the mess we are in. But it is what it is, what we need is to mature to the place where we can lovingly study this and any other subject in the word, so we can be the body and rightly divide the word of God, not according to personal interpretation, but by allowing scripture to interpret scripture.
It is a doable and well worth effort. The truth is one.
Ephesians 4:
Unity and Maturity in the Body of Christ
4 As a prisoner for the Lord, then, I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. 2 Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. 3 Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace. 4 There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I don't get involved in the tithing issue because like Richard said, the debate has been ongoing for years & will be a debate until the coming of the Lord. However, I do want to say that I have absolutely no problem with giving the Lord 10% & then some but I'm one who believes that Jesus didn't abolish the law but fulfilled it. When we start deleting Scriptures we start becoming God. I'm never comfortable with saying this Scripture doesn't matter any more or that Scripture doesn't pertain to me because Jesus crossed it out. Who am I to delete passages? I would also like to say that I don't give because a preacher demanded it. I am not convicted by man but by the Holy Spirit & the Word. I have no problem in showing others the Old Testament as being God's word. If I'm teaching a lie, I'd have to say to take it up with the Lord. He said it.
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Tammy,
We now are living in a bless time, we have @2000 years of church history and many more tools to understand clearly what scripture teaches. We above all have the Holy Spirit who guides us to all truth.
Just because a subject will be debated until the coming of the Lord, we should not stop seeking the truth of it. That would mean we stop our pursue of truth, since there is no doctrinal teaching of scripture that has not been the cause of debate through the ages.
Ephesians 2:15 .....'Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances.' .....
It is obvious that Christ did away with the old Covenant; He established a new one, come on you all this is elementary, I do not want to insult your intelligence, but that is basic Christian doctrine.
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Excellent question Char,
God has now written his laws in our heart that is absolutely true. The law of the Spirit, the law of love. The laws that can be summarized in two commandments - love God and love your neighbor. We do that and we have fulfilled the law. We are not bound to keep the levitical or sacrificial laws or the laws that are intended for a theocracy. Jesus did away with them.
In a time of transition for the people of God to become the church, only these instructions were given:
19 “It is my judgment, therefore, that we should not make it difficult for the Gentiles who are turning to God. 20 Instead we should write to them, telling them to abstain from food polluted by idols, from sexual immorality, from the meat of strangled animals and from blood. 21 For the law of Moses has been preached in every city from the earliest times and is read in the synagogues on every Sabbath.” Acts 15
Jesus - indeed came to fulfill the law, but by fulfilling it, He was also doing away with it.
The Righteous Shall Live by Faith 10 For all who rely on works of the law are munder a curse; for it is written, n“Cursed be everyone who does not oabide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them.
Jesus brought with his death a replacement of the old Mosaic covenant God made with Israel in some ways, as well as a renewal and completion of the old.
Jesus did not get rid of the moral law, which law remains accomplishing its perfect work to bring conviction to the heart of men. But he did get rid of many of its requirements.
So Jesus, both fulfilled the law and abolish the written requirements of the law that were against us, but He first fulfilled it. With his death He established a new covenant.
We are under grace and not the law, but the law remains perfect and holy.
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Just because a subject will be debated until the coming of the Lord, we should not stop seeking the truth of it. That would mean we stop our pursue of truth, since there is no doctrinal teaching of scripture that has not been the cause of debate through the ages. - Totally agree. I'm always open to what the Word has to say. I have seen many things a lot differently over the years of studying deeper. It's a great journey as you have stated. I'm not closed down completely on this belief because if there is more that the Lord wants to show me, I'm always an open book. Never would I shut down & not be open to something new He has to show me. When we think we know it all, we've stopped learning & I love to learn. I've read all of your replies & am going to take these with prayer & be open. I have found some of them very interesting for sure.
No insult to my intelligence brother. I've never claimed to be a great theologian, just a simple woman trying to grow in the Lord thru His Word. "Don't misunderstand why I have come. I did not come to abolish the law of Moses or the writings of the prophets. No, I came to accomplish their purpose." Matthew 5:17
I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth have passed away, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Matthew 5:18 - To me, this is saying nothing disappears from the Law until EVERYTHING is accomplished. There are prophesies in the OT that have yet to come to pass so it's not accomplished yet. It also says UNTIL heaven & earth have passed away. If my interpretation is incorrect here, again, I'm open to another one. Mercy knows I'm definitely not always right.
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Praise be to God Tammy, Praise God!
Your burning passion for truth and your willingness to conform to that truth is from God the Father. He has giving you the understanding you have. I rejoice with your post, how I wish we would all be willing to examine our faith. That is a good thing, a most beautiful thing.
Know-it-alls- are scary people - I know I come off as one hahaha at times, because of my assertions, but I assure you that our Lord does not allow me to fall in that camp. He continues to challenge me with the word to modify my previous understanding(s), not always in drastic ways, but important ways none the less. We want to know the truth, for only the truth sets us free, only the truth is worth dying for, Christ is our truth, in him there is life and truth. HE IS THE WAY. Anyhoo you have brought joy to my heart with your post, how I long to see others mature to a place where we can talk about difficult doctrinal issues in love, with a teachable spirit. I remain learning and after 17 years of studying all things pertaining to God and Godliness that God has blessed me to study, I Know for a fact that as long as God is around, I will be learning from him for ETERnity. :)
Let me once again state what I have stated throughout this discussion for the record again: I am not against tithing. I do not tithe nor do I teach tithing, but if a member of the body wants to tithe, praise God, Glory to God, I am sure God is not upset at that when the motives for practicing tithing or anything else for that matter pertains to God and Godliness are pure.
We know that the word of God does not contradict itself. That we can take it to the bank. Actually don't take it to the bank hahaha they are pretty crooked hahaha we can count on the inerrancy of scripture. Hence when we encounter an apparent contradiction we know to continue to study and to continue praying that God will reveal to us how the apparent contradiction(s) are reconcilable truths that co-exist or that nullify a wrong interpretation.
We have verses that state that God's word does not pass away and those verses are absolutely true, but when we say that the law has been done away with, we are not saying the whole law and further we have to study the multiple meanings of the word “Law,” according to the context in which is being use. The law may mean the entire revelation of God to us or the first 5 books of the bible or the levitical/sacrificial laws. We also have to keep in mind that if God who is the author of the word says that he will do away with practices that have now become obsolete by his doing, by his plan, then he is not going against himself, but doing according to his will. Old Testament practices are no longer practice, but that does not mean that his word has passed away. No, not at all. His word remains, but what happened is that the author of the plan reserves the right to make his plan take the shape He desires for it.
The laws instituted by God for animal sacrifices are no longer practiced, but they remain a schoolmaster that points us to Jesus, it has not passed away, but it has become obsolete when God's progressive revelation has been reveal to us. In the fullness of time He revealed to us what those laws pointed to in detail that was not fully disclosed in the Old Testament times.
When the time came, God gave Peter a vision and revelation that there was no unclean thing. He tells them to eat of anything placed before him and also teaches him that are no longer Jews or gentiles, but that we are one. That does not mean that the laws instituted by God have passed away and we should throw them always and discard them as useless, no, no, no, by no means. Those laws have an abundance of things to teach us, things that point to Christ etc...
Christ did not come to abolish the law, He is the author of the law and he never wanted to abolish it, he did change how his people were to conduct themselves. Those are two different things. He has neither made the word pass away nor has He destroyed it. He has simply given us further instructions, instructions that in many instances the laws pointed to, but the Jews did not get. That is why Jesus tells them multiple times, you have heard it said, but I tell you... He did not abolished the law, but he most certainly
You are absolutely right, nothing disappears from the law, it all has it's spiritual, practical, teachings from which we learned to be Christ like, but again that does not mean that God has not modified, according to his appointed times, for some of the laws (remember the word law has multiple meanings), to be modified according to Gods' already prophesied changes or modifications.
Tithing remains in the law, no one should dare take it out of the bible, God's word will not pass way in that sense, but that does not mean God in his appointed time doesn't have the right to modify his own commands in the fullness of time.
I will stop now because I fear I may complicate matters more than help with such long posts, but again sis, you have a beautiful attitude. I pray it’s contagious and that God leads you to all truth.
12Not that I have already obtained all this, or have already been made perfect, but I press on to take hold of that for which Christ Jesus took hold of me. 13Brothers, I do not consider myself yet to have taken hold of it. But one thing I do: Forgetting what is behind and straining toward what is ahead, 14I press on toward the goal to win the prize for which God has called me heavenward in Christ Jesus.
15All of us who are mature should take such a view of things. And if on some point you think differently, that too God will make clear to you. 16Only let us live up to what we have already attained.
17Join with others in following my example, brothers, and take note of those who live according to the pattern we gave you. 18For, as I have often told you before and now say again even with tears, many live as enemies of the cross of Christ. 19Their destiny is destruction, their god is their stomach, and their glory is in their shame. Their mind is on earthly things. 20But our citizenship is in heaven. And we eagerly await a Savior from there, the Lord Jesus Christ, 21who, by the power that enables him to bring everything under his control, will transform our lowly bodies so that they will be like his glorious body. Philippians 3
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