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We Should Have Left With Him
A little levity - When the Supreme Court kicked God our of our schools, maybe we all should have got up and left with Him. We didn't and ever since we have been guilty of giving our children a godless education. Could that have anything to do with what we are seeing today?
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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JB,
In your view are there consequences in this life for the child of God who makes decisions outside the will of God? Another way of saying it, does God ignore the actions of a child of God because they are saved or do they face consequences for their bad judgment followed by bad actions?
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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In your view are there consequences in this life for the child of God who makes decisions outside the will of God?
LT,
I believe the severity of the consequences is in direct proportion to the magnitude of the transgression. In other words; we know what ever is not of faith is sin; Ro.14:23 “Faith being that conviction of the heart.” therefore if I know that eating a certain thing is not good for me, and I eat it anyway, there is usually no immediate consequences for eating it; The wrath of God does not come down on me at that time, however if I keep on eating that same thing day in and day out, it could lead to my early demise. This would be in disobedience to the grace of God that is telling me not to partake of that thing. For the wages of sin is death. Rom.6:23.
An immediate consequence for disobedience; would be wanting to cross a busy street in the middle of the block, and ignoring the leading of the Holy Spirit in my heart not to do so, could be certain death.
So there are long term and short term consequences for the judgments we make while on earth.
While we are still under grace, and not under the law; the consequences for our actions will be made manifest at the end of life. Where He says in 2 Cor. 5:10; For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
So He is not beating us over the head every time we miss the mark “sin” but we are being judged or convicted by the Holy Spirit within: whether or not what we are doing is permissible.
Though it says in Col. 3:5-6 For us to mortify the members which are upon the earth: fornication……etc. For which things sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience.
I don’t believe the wrath of God comes down on us every time we sin. He says in Jo.1:8 that if we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.JB
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JB,
For the most part we are in agreement, though you choose to use certain words that need not be used or avoid other words to attempt to make your points, and this often confuses people. I would point out one thing, God does reserve the right to discipline His children here in this life for our good and the Bible says that the discipline is not pleasant (Hebrews 12), thus there are consequences in the worldly realm and consequences from God for disobedience. This does not mean that He is beating us up everytime we miss the mark, but that His discipline is administered as He sees fit as a loving Father looking out for His child.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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I agree here that God doesn't sit with a lightning bolt to strike us every time we mess up. I praise God for that for sure.
I agree LT but I couldn't put it under your reply.
In His Love
Tammy
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Joe,
Can you expand on this statement:
We must learn and know who we are “in Christ”, and who “Christ” is in us. “Christ” being an epithet of Jesus should be our epithet as well.
Blessings,
JB
I know you didn't mean to sound "new age" but I have to admit that I do not understand that last statement. I understand the term "Christ" to Jesus being our Messiah. How are you using that term?
Blessings back and it is really good to know that Jesus is the Christ. I am not. Are you talking about Him being the "anointed one" and that we can also be anointed?
I did catch the part where you did say that God does not overlook sin. I don't think Taminator was referring to you.
I was watching O'Reilly one evening when he had three Evangelical pastors on his show. One was telling the black Evangelicals that they could not support Obama because of his support of homosexual marriage. Two of the pastors, however, said homosexual marriage issue wasn't that important and insisted that the people support his anyway. You could probably google the program and listen to it. I was very shocked by these Evangelical pastors treating homosexual marriage as no big deal. I didn't realize that we had gotten that far. I know that much of the mainline denominations do not feel it is a big deal. I was surprised by the response of these Evangelical pastors. I personally it is a big deal and dangerous journey for us to be on. I don't think we can ignore what is happening in our country. I think it is time for the church to get serious about the direction we are headed.
I think the reason that some would say that it was not that big of a deal is due to our extreme lack of understanding and knowledge of Scripture. That is my thinking and I may very well be very wrong but I don't think so.
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Joe,
Can you expand on this statement:
We must learn and know who we are “in Christ”, and who “Christ” is in us. “Christ” being an epithet of Jesus should be our epithet as well.
Roy, there are people that do not believe that Christ is in us or that we are in Christ.
So who are we in Christ? Are we not children of God, born of the same Spirit as Jesus was born with?
Is it not man with God indwelling him? Are we not the temple of God, and the Spirit of God dwelling in us?
1Cor.6:17, “But he that is joined unto the Lord is one Spirit” not a different or another spirit, but the same Spirit. See the promises were not made to you or me directly, the promises were made to Christ, and now that we have Christ in us, we are made the children of God, by faith in Jesus Christ, and we enjoy all the promises made to Abraham and his seed. Which is Christ. Gal.3:16. This same Christ is in you and I.
I see Jesus as being the son of man; I see Christ as being the Son of God. To me this makes up the New Creation. "Jesus Christ" This is also something that most Christians do not understand.
Are you questioning the part that says; Christ being an epithet of Jesus? Or the part that says; “that should be our epithet as well”? Eph. 4:13-15, goes something like this, “as far as the perfecting of the saints” till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”; that we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; but speaking the truth in love, may grow up into Him in all things, which is the head, even Christ. Also in 2Cor.3:18, beholding as in a glass, the glory of the Lord, are changed into that same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord. So does this scripture apply to us. “As He is, so are we in this world”? 1Jo.4:17.
So I say, we must learn who we are in Christ and who Christ is in us.
I hope I addressed most of your concerns.
Blessings to you as well,
JB
PS. Are you talking about Him being the "anointed one" and that we can also be anointed? Yes!Anoint or Anointed; to smear or rub with oil, or with the Holy Ghost. Or with the oil of gladness Heb.1:9
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Roy,
You have asked a good question: Why do we think that this God has ceased to exist? Today we are indwelt with the Holy Spirit and empowered but those in the OT seemed to know God far better than many today.
In Lamentations 3 we read some things, too, that may seem surprising to think of God doing:
25 The Lord is good to those whose hope is in him,
to the one who seeks him;
26 it is good to wait quietly
for the salvation of the Lord.
27 It is good for a man to bear the yoke
while he is young.28 Let him sit alone in silence,
for the Lord has laid it on him.
29 Let him bury his face in the dust—
there may yet be hope.
30 Let him offer his cheek to one who would strike him,
and let him be filled with disgrace.31 For no one is cast off
by the Lord forever.
32 Though he brings grief, he will show compassion,
so great is his unfailing love.
33 For he does not willingly bring affliction
or grief to anyone.34 To crush underfoot
all prisoners in the land,
35 to deny people their rights
before the Most High,
36 to deprive them of justice—
would not the Lord see such things?37 Who can speak and have it happen
if the Lord has not decreed it?
38 Is it not from the mouth of the Most High
that both calamities and good things come?
39 Why should the living complain
when punished for their sins?40 Let us examine our ways and test them,
and let us return to the Lord.
41 Let us lift up our hearts and our hands
to God in heaven, and say:
42 “We have sinned and rebelled
and you have not forgiven.43 “You have covered yourself with anger and pursued us;
you have slain without pity.
44 You have covered yourself with a cloud
so that no prayer can get through.
45 You have made us scum and refuse
among the nations.46 “All our enemies have opened their mouths
wide against us.
47 We have suffered terror and pitfalls,
ruin and destruction.”
48 Streams of tears flow from my eyes
because my people are destroyed.49 My eyes will flow unceasingly,
without relief,
50 until the Lord looks down
from heaven and sees.
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Amanda,
Just the other day my wife and I as we were watching events in their present conflict were talking about all the suffering the Jews have suffered over the years. This present conflict, of course, is due to their disobedience occurring some 3500 years ago. Their history dates back some 4,000 years while ours only dates back a few hundred years but we can certainly see similar trends. Sometimes their judgments took many years to be fulfilled while others were much more immediate. When they sinned in the desert through unbelief, the judgment was immediate being forced to die in the desert.
We are most certainly witnessing judgments being dealt upon us. We must turn around. I think AAG is a great place to place warnings to us and others. There is so much sin in our nation. We so wanted to identify with our nation. Our motto is "In God We Trust." Yet, at the same time there are so many areas where we identify ourselves with Satan that we must continue to say that we are not of this world. We are Christians living in a great country called "America." Our identification must be with those from all over this world who also claim Christ as their King.
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Roy,
And yet, grace was existent in the Old Testament, too. There are many examples where God showed mercy and kindness and compassion.
Cain is an example. He was the first man to shed human blood. God drives him out into the earth to be a wanderer but does not require his life for the life of Abel that Cain took. And even the brand on Cain’s forehead protects his life just as well as it marks him as a murderer. Isn’t that grace? No man was to touch Cain. But later the inhabitants of the earth grow so wicked that God pronounces just judgment against them. Still, Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord (Genesis 6:8, KJB). Later on, people start building a tower high enough to reach heaven and seem to have no limit to their arrogance and ambition. God does not destroy them but frustrates their intentions and their purposes.
It bothers me a great deal when people certainly appear to believe and trust in God but do not heal and then others say, Oh they had some sin and would not repent so God couldn't help them – like you said the woman in the wheelchair was told she had unforgiveness in her heart. I want to say, Who can speak and have it happen if the Lord has not decreed it? (Lamentations 3:37)
Maybe God does shut out prayers and maybe that is why some are not healed -- because their prayers don't get through and if that’s the case, then it most likely is due to their sin but who are we to judge another and say that is why they didn't get their healing? Only God knows the heart. In one of your posts you said:
A lady came in a wheel chair hoping to be healed. She was told that she had unforgiveness in her heart and as a result could not be healed. She begged to be told what the unforgiveness was. She was ignored and the service continued with everyone exclaiming how wonderful it was to learn why some are not healed.
That poor woman. I really struggle with understanding why people say and do things like that, too. It’s almost like manipulation – of God and of people.
I have seen believers on their death beds and they were not living in sin as far as I could see. They were actually very concerned about forgiving others and making sure they had the right standing before God and most of them wanted to live and some of them could not accept that they were going to die and others prayed for strength to get through the dying process … for help with the pain and with letting go. One of the things I learned while working with the terminally ill is that people are most fearful of loss and of the need to let go.
Hezekiah's prayer was heard and God added 15 years to his life but King David suffered from a long illness before he died and God did not heal him or add years to his life. God didn't heal the child that was born to David and Bathsheba and the child had not sinned. David prayed and fasted for the child to live and the child died.
Is it not from the mouth of the Most High that both calamities and good things come? Lamentations 3:38, NIV.
It’s really up to God, isn’t it? Like Esther’s request to the king, all we can really say is, “If it pleases the King, let the King …” and make our requests.
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Oops ... lol. I guess I shouldn't have said Cain received a mark in his forehead. I was writing from memory. I went back to read the text and discovered it never says what the mark was or where it was. Is that a good example of making the wrong inference or of just having wrong data and information :) Have you ever heard of the DIKW Hierarchy? Data, Information, Knowledge, Wisdom Hierarchy? I find it an interesting concept. Data is symbols, facts, measurements. Information is data with meaning -- who, what, when, where. Data must have integrity and not be in error or may lead to misinformation. Knowledge provides the how -- the application of data and information. How to use it. Wisdom provides the why -- the knowing of when to use it.
I lack wisdom and have trouble keeping things straight in the other three categories as well :)
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Roy,
I just want to say to you......you are not wrong...........and I'm sorry to say it.
The world....but this country in particular, is building one large modern Sodom and Gomorrah from coast to coast.
And some churches are supplying brick and mortar for constrution.........
Because as you say, Roy, an "extreme lack of understanding and knowledge of Scripture'.
Too many folks are subscribing to the ridiculous " politically correct" way of life...".because God wants us to show love, doesn't He? God is love.....isn't He?".............Sad,sad,sad........
Grace and Peace.
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