All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
We Should Have Left With Him
A little levity - When the Supreme Court kicked God our of our schools, maybe we all should have got up and left with Him. We didn't and ever since we have been guilty of giving our children a godless education. Could that have anything to do with what we are seeing today?
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Permalink Reply by RoyW on
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Maybe what you have is a combination of two. However, that is not my point. My point is that Satan cannot cause any of these storms without God's approval. If I am the boss in charge that still makes me responsible. Who was it that said, "The buck stops here?" It was Harry Truman who was from my area.
He did not deliver the A bomb but was certainly the one who had to take the responsibility. So it is with God. Even if the causes are natural ones, God is still responsible as He could stop the disaster. Truman could have stopped the bomb but did not. He didn't even build it yet he took the responsibility.
We could argue all day long about who did what but I don't think there is any argument for Who eventually is responsible for these disasters. As we mentioned in Is 45:7, He takes full responsibility.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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It's been an ongoing debate for a long time -- are natural disasters acts of God? Did God create the world to allow disasters from the beginning or is it that, because God created nature and nature creates disasters after it became fallen, and so like Truman, God takes responsibility?
Death entered the world through sin. The world became fallen through sin. There is a reason why God allows it to go on and why God allowed man to have the choice to disobey. God was not blindsided. There are many birth defects. Are they allowed by God? The answer has to be Yes. God is allowing sin to persist in the world and is allowing the consequences of sin to persist. God is also giving out discipline and punishment for sins. Many times in the OT if the people repented, they found favor in God's eyes. But God already knew they would repent. Does it rain because the farmer prays for it on his crops, or because God knew the farmer would pray? Or did God lead the farmer to pray for it and then give the rain? What about the prayers for rain and no rainfall comes?
The lamb was slain from the foundation of the world.
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Since Jesus gave good instructions on prayer encouraging us to ask, I think the asking does make a difference. Over and over we are encouraged to ask. I would have to say that I think a farmer can bug God enough that eventually He will send rain. I think God's system is so advanced He could go just about in any direction without violating any of His laws. He is so advanced to us we could never figure Him out. Every man, woman, boy, girl are all eventually going to die. Death should not be a major problem to the believer. We think God is so unjust just because someone dies. That is a part of His system.
I cannot understand hell but do believe in it since I believe His Word. I believe His Word is absolutely true. I believe someday I will understand God sending souls to hell and so trust God in the meantime. However, death is not a big problem to me. Dying is just a part of this life. It will come by disaster, disease, old-age deterioration or something of the like.
However, I do believe in prayer. I think even our short little prayers in the prayer room can make a difference. I think it is always correct to ask God to help others. We ask and leave the rest up to His well. He is a glorious God and this is an absolutely glorious plan. He has guaranteed life to anyone who chooses to have life. He saves all who call on Him. Even though I am Calvinistic I have no problems saying such things. I think these comments are in perfect agreement with His Word.
We have been gloriously saved by His grace. Praise His name.
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Amanda,
Your post is a good one. When I see something bad happen, I know it's part of the *human sin system*. What is difficult for me to see is the evil that man contrives to bring on others. I don't believe those things are even thought of by God. I tried to find the verses where God states that He never imagined a particular sin. I believe it was regarding the sacrifice of babies in a white hot idol or statue. Does anyone have information of this verse or verses?
Man's imagination is often evil. Even the imaginations of a Christian can be evil.
I believe God allows certain evils...meaning He allows them to happen. What I don't believe is that God causes every evil thing. Yes, God allowed Satan to pester Job. He told him he could do everything but kill him. God knew Job. HE knew Job would come through the test. At the end of the test, He restored what Satan had destroyed, and restored it in excess.
Blessings.....
Rita
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Amanda,
Found it! Jeremiah 32 starting at verse 26 -36. Also is in Chapter 7.
I'm wondering if there aren't other things that God never had in His mind that would happen, and did happen. Maybe someone has some insight about the verses I stated.
Blessings.....
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Roy, my brother.....
Very well said.
Thank you for starting this post. Excellent timing for some interesting views......Amanda, Chris, Dave, and Charles.....
Hang in there Charles.... You have friends here praying for you.
Let me insert some Biblical historical thoughts to consider:
During Jesus' earthly ministry, the promised land was under Roman rule....and that had to be worse than any president the USA would ever elect. The Jewish people were under severe physical danger (Luke 13:1-3), higher taxes (than any healh care plan could cost), The Romans introduced crucifixon as punishment for whatever they wanted to charge a person with.
In this trying, dangerous climate........Jesus did His thing without giving a hoot about the authorities. (Can we do any less???). I don't remember Jesus going around complaning regularly about the Romans in any of the four gospels............
Jesus did clense the temple, twice, because the religious leaders had negated the responsibility God had charged to them. How's the Church of Jesus Christ faring these days?
Remember this, guys........God has always had a remnant. If we're still around here when that day comes....I'll see you there. Otherwise, I'll see you all at HOME.
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by Tammy on
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Shucks, all of you guys are doing lunch. I wanna come esp if Roy is paying.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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An interesting discussion. My two cents:
A sovereign God can allow Satan to have constituted authority and give man liberties that all fit within God's construct and plan. Satan and man can only go but so far and God reserves the right to override us and Satan at any time.
A Sovereign God can etablish the laws of nature (ie gravity) without having to micromanage every moment. If a man chooses to jump out of a plane without a parachute that is not God's fault, but man exercising his liberty. God can also override the laws of nature (ie Jesus walked on water and fed 5,000 with only a small amout). God can also bring destruction as described in the OT (ie the flood and Sodom and Gommorah). We only know these actions were of God because the Bible reveals it to us. What about today? We do not get to see behind the veil to know if it is God caused or a result of the fall and the natural laws in action that God established. We no longer have new Scripture being written to reveal whether Katrina or Sandy were direct judgments or simply the result of judgment on mankind resulting from the fall and creation becoming corrupted too.
A soveriign God need not be the causation of everything, but must be the overseer and sustainer of all if He is truly sovereign.
Back to the original question of the post: God has given man liberties to chose certain things without Him surrendering His sovereign rule. God also has the right to say time is up as seen in Genesis. In Genesis 15 God tells Abraham that He is going to give Abraham and his decendants the Promised Land, but not yet, because the sins of the Amorites had not reached its full measure (Gen. 15:16). After the 400 years in Egypt God called them out of Egypt so that they could now go and possess the land ... the time of judgment for the people living in the land had come and the time for God to fulfill His promise to Abraham and his decendants had come. Where does America stand in that time line? Are we awaiting judgment or is there a chance like Ninevah we could repent as a nation and avoid the judgment due a nation who rejects Him? Only God knows and in due time we will find out.
At least this is my two cents on the matter :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT,
Amen. It is my prayer that we repent. However, the news that I am hearing lately is that the Republican party is moving more and more towards the left to gain more of the electorate. I hope that which I am hearing does not prove to be true.
God bless you all this Thanksgiving. I will be heading to Wyoming later this evening. I am grateful for all of you and AAG for the blessings of His love and fellowship. God is so good. He will do everything necessary to make all things work to the good to those that love Him and are called according to His purpose.
I pray that if anyone is alone that God would be very close to you at this time.
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LT,
Your two cents worth makes perfect sense to me.
Blessings to you and yours through this week of Thanksgiving and remembrance......
Rita
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L.T.,
Well said with your two cents, Bro.............
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