All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others

We Should Have Left With Him

A little levity - When the Supreme Court kicked God our of our schools, maybe we all should have got up and left with Him. We didn't and ever since we have been guilty of giving our children a godless education. Could that have anything to do with what we are seeing today?

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 16, 2012 at 4:21am

Excellent post, Amanda.

The age of grace does not mean that God all of a sudden became more lenient with His creation. Salvation is to all mankind, Jew AND Gentile. David points that out very well in his post. However, grace does not mean leniency. If law was rough, grace can be even more rough. If the law was demanding, grace can be even more demanding. If God punished people for neglecting the law, it will be even worse for neglecting this wonderful gift of His Son. Through Jesus all of our sins are forgiven. However, people still need to come to Him and follow Him. Grace does not give anyone the right to ignore His Word.

Grace should make all mankind fall down on his knees, repent of sins and follow God. However, only a few do that and the rest of mankind lives exactly as they did when the Law was in effect. The Law was given so that mankind might be saved. Jesus came and did everything God demanded for a perfect sacrifice. The Law was in a way made for One even though obeying it had its merit. The Jews thought God had given them the Law for their own purposes. They missed God's plan altogether. The Law was given to bring us to salvation but it was Jesus that was able to obey the entire Law.

The dispensation of grace was in effect when God sent the flood. It was in effect when God destroyed Sodom and in effect when God destroyed Jerusalem. When Abraham believed God he was credited with righteousness. When Noah believed God he found favor. These were not perfect men in themselves as was not Job. Yet, they were credited with good works because of their faith. Hebrews chapter 11 shows us that all of these were considered righteous because of their faith. God was looking forward to the time when Jesus would come and do all that He demanded to forgive man of all their sins. Because of their faith even before Jesus came, God was able to grant credit simply because He is a sovereign God and knew the outcome of the life of Christ.

In a sense, nothing has changed other than the great story of Christ after His accomplishments rather than before man had seen that done. How great will be our punishment if we refuse to hear that blessed story. However, when Isaiah spoke of the healing from sin through Christ, it was as good as done. It was as good as done before Adam ever sinned. It was the plan of God and the plan of God is the same today as it was before the creation of the world.

We are a part of that plan. When we see God bringing disasters, it is ours to worship our Sovereign Father Who controls every part of this universe. He is the Father of this universe and He is completely active in all of its functions. If not, it would fall apart. None of the laws that are in effect would work. It is ours to believe His Word. What is man that He should doubt what God has said. If He said six days, He meant six days. He spoke directly to Moses and gave Him the Law. Jesus came and fulfilled it. That was as good as done before the very first day of creation.

This is the day of worship. The work is done. Let us bow to our God. Let us enter the Sabbath in full reverence and humility. The Sabbath was given to man, the work was given to Christ. We are mightily blessed. We are swept away by His grace. Grace is a very powerful substance. It is the plan of God. It has nothing to do with going easy on mankind. It has everything to do with guaranteeing that everyone that shall call on the name of the Lord Jesus Christ God our Savior, shall be completely and totally saved from all their sin. Otherwise, every single one of us would be lost. That is how God can call Noah, Job, Abraham, David and all the rest righteous. That is how He can call us righteous. We are very blessed.

Blessed be the Lord our God.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 16, 2012 at 5:58am

To further explain my position:

I did not vote for Obama but strongly believed that God intervened in this election and made Barak our president. For some reason God did not want Mitt Romney to be our president. This is an example of His grace at work. I do not know the reason. I do know that Romney represents a false christ and is in a movement that is very agressive in its attempt to convince people that Mormonism is the true faith which is much different from the Christian faith.

I voted for Romney. I do not believe God is upset with me. I do believe He overrode my thinking. Most would call me a Calvinist and so I will have a different view of God than many. I do not call myself a Calvinist but simply one that believes the Bible and that is how I see it. I do believe that God intervenes by His grace and that He just gave us a perfect example of that. Some will call that hurricane a coincidence. Obviously, my view of God does not allow me to interpret these events in that way.

Why did God want Barak Obama to be our president? I don't know but I respect the One that put Him there by His own power. God's plan for us is eternity with Him. It is not to be wealthy in this world. He promises to take care of our daily needs. The primary reason why most wanted Romney to be president is simply because they felt he has a better fiscal policy. I strongly believe that he does. I believe he is more moral but I do not believe that he is any closer to God than Obama. How do we know that Obama is not one of His chosen? Or, he may be the anti-Christ. I don't know why God put him in there but I do believe God did just that. It is very difficult for me to do so as I am so weak in myself but with God's help I am going to give Obama my respect as our president and trust the One that put him there. I am not going to sign any petitions to secede from the union. haha

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 16, 2012 at 5:59am

God has a purpose for everything He does. His goal remains to get us all safely home by His grace. That He will accomplish by His power and might. He created this entire universe by His power. I think He can control these present events.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on November 16, 2012 at 10:30am

Amen Roy.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 16, 2012 at 4:33pm

Roy,

I think that most of us have put God in a box in such a way that we no longer have respect for God or are awestruck by God's power and might and it almost looks like people hold the POV that God has delegated most of God's sovereignty over to Satan, demons, and humans. In fact, I am not sure what is actually meant by the words that Adam gave up the rule of the earth to Satan. Did Adam have rule of the earth? Or was Adam just instructed to care for the earth? Does Satan have rule of it or is God still in absolute control? These are things that I need to sort out. The fact that man and demons and Satan have liberties does not mean they rule over all and over everything, does it? We have authority in Christ but to what extent? I am unsure. I am afraid I will be like the friends of Job and say things about God that are not right. I fear God. I wonder if we should have more respect for God when we do approach the throne of grace to ask for help in our time of need -- even though I know Jesus is my advocate. I still am unsure.

In Job 40 we read:

Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm:

7 “Brace yourself like a man;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.

8 “Would you discredit my justice?
Would you condemn me to justify yourself?
9 Do you have an arm like God’s,
and can your voice thunder like his?
10 Then adorn yourself with glory and splendor,
and clothe yourself in honor and majesty.
11 Unleash the fury of your wrath,
look at all who are proud and bring them low,
12 look at all who are proud and humble them,
crush the wicked where they stand.
13 Bury them all in the dust together;
shroud their faces in the grave.
14 Then I myself will admit to you
that your own right hand can save you. (NIV)

To me, these words sound like things that God does and that God is asking Job if he can do these things. God is love and I am very sure that we do not really understand that love. It is a love that saves us because we can't save ourselves, nor can we understand a love that crushes the wicked where they stand and buries them in the dust, shrouding their faces in the grave. How is that love, we wonder? It sounds more like wrath.

Job 42

New International Version (NIV)

1 Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

It makes me think that most people don't really see God. I think many, and myself included, often speak of things we don't understand and things too wonderful for us to know as if we do understand and know.

7 After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.

It makes me think God still gets angry when we don't speak the truth about God.

8 So now take seven bulls and seven rams and go to my servant Job and sacrifice a burnt offering for yourselves. My servant Job will pray for you, and I will accept his prayer and not deal with you according to your folly. You have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has.” 9 So Eliphaz the Temanite, Bildad the Shuhite and Zophar the Naamathite did what the Lord told them; and the Lord accepted Job’s prayer.

I want to make sure when I speak of God that I speak truth about Him. I think it's important. I just don't know right now what is the truth. Jesus prays for us and the Father accepts His prayer and His sacrifice. And I am glad. I wouldn't want to be dealt with according to my folly.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on November 16, 2012 at 5:51pm

Amanda,

God is still at work in this universe. Some believe He got everything going and then turned it over to certain laws and others. That is nonsense. Most of evolution is nonsense. God put within nature the ability to adapt and some have seen that and said that is the way God created life. That is the kind of thing that God becomes very angry with and the thing He was angry with Eliphaz and the others.

Man doesn't have the ability to look at the workings of a single living cell and explain how all that is happening is happening. They see the cell working under their powerful microscopes and wonder what in the world is making all those parts work like that. And then they say that because it is there and the cell is alive, evolution must be true. That is the kind of ridiculous nonsense that can come out of the mouth of a man.

The flood was not a quirk of nature. It was a direct intervention into nature by God Who was fed up with mankind and destroyed virtually the whole lot of them. We must worship and revere that God. He is the God Who created this universe and also spoke to us through Moses.

No one (not even the devil) has the power to run this universe or this earth. He has given some authority but not enough to bring on a hurricane the size of Sandy. The devil does not have the ability to go one inch outside of the boundaries that God has put around him. I tend to believe that Satan does have the power to create some little storms but not those that cause disasters such as tsunamis, large hurricanes, great outbreaks of diseases, etc. Satan obviously does have the power to influence man but can not go any further than allowed by God.

It appears there has been somewhat of a hedge of protection around these United States. Has that been removed? I don't know. All I am saying is that I believe that God intervened miraculously in this election. I don't know why but I believe He chose Obama over Romney. You don't like that and I don't like that but we must honor it. With God's help I am going to honor President Obama and trust God in His decision.

I think it would be wrong to give Satan the credit for Sandy. I voted for Romney and I don't believe God is upset with me. I did vote for a person that calls our Lord Jesus a brother of Satan. I cringe when I think of it. I voted for a person that says the Jesus ascended to the position of a god. Jesus is God. He is my God. He is my Savior. I am regretting that I voted for someone that calls Him anything less than that. Abortion is bad and same-sex marriage is immoral. I'm not sure that those sins can be equated to calling Jesus anything less than He is. He is the I am of the Bible. I must admit that I am really regretting voting for Romney. Jesus is my King. Jesus is my Lord. Jesus is my God. He is eternal God.

No one else has to feel like I do. No one has the right to call Jesus anything less than the eternal God. God came and saved me from my sins. I know He forgives. I know I am forgiven. No one else but me sinned like I did. I knew the hurricane was from God and I voted for Romney anyway. Romney needs to get down on his knees and repent for his evil deeds. We all need to repent. The Mormon church needs to repent. Maybe God is doing something beyond anything we are thinking. I am going to trust Him these next four years.

I think He might be going to turn Obama around. I am not sure. We all need to pray for our President. There is so much hatred towards him. My inbox is full of hate mail. I think we all think we have everything figured out. Not many are more conservative than I but this election is making me rethink everything there is about me. I am seeing how evil I am on the inside.

Can a church that hates Obama turn him around?

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 16, 2012 at 6:21pm

Let me share my experience with voting on election day this year. Nothing is ever easy for me anymore. I ventured out to go vote and to do a few other errands. When I went to my precinct, the voting machines there were down. They were waiting for a tech to come and fix them. I had to wait for awhile and the line was getting longer and there were people needing to get to work so I let some of them go in front of me. When it was finally my turn, I thought I will vote a straight ticket. I live in one of the fifteen states that still allows straight ticket voting. I got to page three of the ballot and it said I had not made a selection for the President and VP. So I went back to page one and decided to select individually instead of doing a straight ticket. Once again on page three, with the cast your ballot button flashing, it still said I had not made a selection for President and VP but all other selections were showing. So I went back again and selected it again. It still said no selection has been made for President and VP. All my other selections were filled in fine. I thought my machine is broken. It's not working right. I was getting frustrated. But then suddenly the thought came in my mind, Don't worry. Just leave it. So I cast the ballot. I was trying to vote for Romney. I am unsure if any of my selections counted. I think my machine was broken.

Don't beat yourself up, Roy. In the OT many wicked kings came to power. God was never surprised. Everything is on schedule. As for Obama. I don't hate him. He does profess to be a Christian. Has he genuinely been born again? The fruit doesn't appear to be there, does it? http://religion.blogs.cnn.com/2012/10/21/to-some-obama-is-the-wrong...

But in the OT we saw what happened to Manasseh. Things don't look well for the USA. But the words Don't worry ... Just leave it ... are comforting and I'm just going to leave it in God's hands.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 16, 2012 at 5:53pm

PS Yours are excellent posts, too, and you are by no means denying the Sovereignty of God or boxing Him in. As you said, let us bow to our God. Let us adore Him.

Have you seen the documentary God of Wonders? Here is a small excerpt if you have a minute and 49 seconds. The whole movie is about an hour and a half.