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Acts chapter 5 -Ananias & Sapphira- Punished by God on the spot- Why ??
I am new around here so I am not sure if this has been discussed before, but posting on another subject this came to my mind..I heard many sermons on the subject before and they were pretty contradictory.
What do you think ? Why in the time of grace were they punished on the spot?
Please add the scripture backing for your belief.I also want to do a bible study on this and I like to have all the scripture references.
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Permalink Reply by emanuela on
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Last night I started your reply, got to the middle of it ..and then I had to click on an update for a program and everything I wrote up to that point got erased, :-( and had to start all over again but I did say originally the same thing you did...
When I saw you said "Also, there is a big difference between a person's heart being influenced or tempted by Satan and Satan filling the heart" I realized I had left it out the second time
Also it just escaped my mind to add Satan as a cause under prophecy.. I must have been very tired last night :-) .. But ,yes I definitely believe that, actually I wanted to add that in the context , earlier in the chapter Jesus mentions precisely the false prophets, and that we should know that they are false by "their bad fruit".
You say that in you opinion at that particular time Peter was not born again , my opinion I don't know... earlier we see that he made the declaration of faith in Messiah as the son of God and that constitutes for some the moment you are born again, I don't agree with that either. Another discussion can be started only by what it means to be born again: the faith, the spirit ,the water, the repentance, the persistence, the fruit ? It's definitely all of these . But can it be just some of these ? From a genuine Faith all the others should flow naturally.
And back to Mathew 7 - I see they trust in both their Faith and works that are not even theirs.. if anything Jesus starts with many will have FAITH ( by calling Him LORD, LORD, "kurios" in greek meaning Supremacy, Controller, Master ) but that FAITH ALONE will not warrant them entrance into the kingdom of Heaven. That's how it starts, Jesus is crystal clear in what He wants the people to know it-s not enough to HAVE FAITH IN THE SON you have to DO the WILL ( "thelema" in greek meaning a determination, properly the thing, commands, precepts,will, choice, inclination, desire, pleasure) OF THE FATHER .
And then because they were not granted entrance based on their faith they start to defend their case alleging that they did supra- natural things in Jesus's Powerful name , thus implying that these were things they were sure Jesus himself was a part of.
And as a conclusion , or the teaching we should draw from this He said that whoever HEARS and Then DOES HIS WORDS is a wise man building on the rock.. and whoever Hears but does NOT Do is a foolish man that built on sand.
We see it again in LUKE 6 :46
And why do you call Me Lord, Lord, and do not do what I say?
Everyone coming to Me and hearing My Words, and doing them, I will show you to whom he is like:...So you have asked me what are the works then? Jesus gave us the answer, The Father's will or commandments, and everything that HE taught while on earth and like you said it , they all have to flow from love and a moral consciousnesses.
Like Paul said when speaking in his defense
Act 24:16 And in this I exercise myself to have always a blameless conscience toward God and men.
And Jesus said what has to be done to encompass the law of God, in the same chapter in verse 12
Therefore, all things, whatever you desire that men should do to you, so also you should do to them; for this is the Law and the Prophets.
Then and now people will have Faith, faith in Jesus, faith in works , faith in tradition, faith in promises, but can it be that they also have Faith in Faith ?
See also Hosea 8:2 Israel invoked the same Faith in God, The hypocrite pharisees invoking that they are sons of Abraham , mentioning some of their good deeds. But all, Israel , the pharisees. the future or present faithful in Messiah , are relying too much in the goodness of God. Israel KNEW that they worshiped other gods, the pharisees Know that they committed injustice with the widows and much more, the believers in Messiah know that they are also doing iniquity , or lawlessness, Everybody knows they did both good and evil , but they think that the faith and the few good works will outweigh the bad in the end, that is their Faith . And I think what James said.. FAITH WITHOUT WORKS is DEAD (" nekros" in greek litteraly dead) this is Jesus's teaching, James was the brother of Jesus, they must have had may intimate talks growing together. I realize how complicated this sounds and there's a reason everybody is so split on this,so many religions, Paul's struggle to bring these concepts to a new people that never had a concept of faith in only one God or moral law ( although God put in each one of us His Law) the written Law brought to our consciousnesses the confirmation that what we were felling all along is binding, thus by us becoming aware of that also being convicted. This sin this awareness of our sins is what condemns us, and saves us at the same time by Faith in Jesus. It is complicated, we are to be Holy just like He is Holy, but we know we can't be.. the problem I think is that God seeing the heart knows how much each of us is fighting against sin ,Is it to the blood?, is it by disciplining ourselves? are we really trying? So to make it even more complicated ,I think Faith in Faith is wrong and Faith in Works is also wrong, it is an intricate working of both Faith and Works perfectly harmonized by the blood of Jesus, God, us, and the Holy Spirit.
Going back to this topic , for me in the end it's not important if Ananias and Saphira were born again or not, I draw the conclusion unto myself that I should never lie, like Paul said exercising myself not to do it intentionally to God and men.
God Bless !!
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Yes, there is no debating the absolute truth that they lied to God and were judged. I wish I could say that I am able to keep myself as unspotted from the world as you are. I struggle in many ways. I really war right now with the command to “Bless those who curse you. Pray for those who hurt you“ (Luke 6:28, NLT).
After reading an article about the ten most common lies that people tell, I can’t say I am perfectly sinless there either.
1. I won’t laugh. I promise.
2. Your table will be ready in a few minutes.
3. I’m just kidding.
4. I never got your text.
5. I have read and agreed to the terms and conditions.
6. You will need to know this later in life.
7. I’m fine.
8. No, I’m Okay. I’m just tired.
9. Okay, just one more episode.
10. I’m on my way.I have said I was just kidding when I really was serious. Many times I have said that I am fine when I wasn’t fine -- especially during a conversation with my 79 year old mother, not wanting to worry her.
I tell people I didn’t realize they had texted or called, when in reality I was avoiding them. I use the I’m just tired quite a bit to get people off my back, when I am way more than just tired or maybe not even tired. And number 5 on the list -- who takes times to read all of that when installing a new computer app or signing up for an account, etc ... ?
People need to hear about God’s love and eternal forgiveness. They need to hear words that bring hope instead of condemnation. I personally am weary of disapproving stares and whispers. What people really need is a way out of the mess they are in … and hard as I try I cannot be perfectly sinless let alone keep the whole law and all the commandments. We are not to justify sin. We are to live righteously. It is true we should never lie and we should never sin. We are works in progress (Philippians 1:6). The flesh wants to continue in sin because it is unregenerate. Sanctification is a process and we begin to grow, and the new spirit grows stronger and matures as well -- we start out as newborns.
As far as when the new birth became possible, you said you do not know if Peter was born again in Luke 4:8. Perhaps a study on the New Covenant would be helpful for you. I believe a testament becomes effective when the testator dies. When the blood of Jesus was spilled and He died, it is my belief that the new covenant became effective. So, no, Peter had not experienced the new birth for Christ had not yet been crucified.
15 For this reason Christ is the mediator of a new covenant, that those who are called may receive the promised eternal inheritance—now that he has died as a ransom to set them free from the sins committed under the first covenant.
16 In the case of a will,[d] it is necessary to prove the death of the one who made it, 17 because a will is in force only when somebody has died; it never takes effect while the one who made it is living. 18 This is why even the first covenant was not put into effect without blood. 19 When Moses had proclaimed every command of the law to all the people, he took the blood of calves, together with water, scarlet wool and branches of hyssop, and sprinkled the scroll and all the people. 20 He said, “This is the blood of the covenant, which God has commanded you to keep.”[e] 21 In the same way, he sprinkled with the blood both the tabernacle and everything used in its ceremonies. 22 In fact, the law requires that nearly everything be cleansed with blood, and without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. (Hebrews 9, NIV).
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Amanda, I am aware of the New Covenant, That's how I came to know Jesus... what I meant by" born again" in the case of Peter... was in right standing with God.. like Abraham for example.. that's all.
I wanted to tell you that I will not respond back for about 2 days.
I remember reading a similar book about all the lies we say and do in a day's work .. I can't remember the title right now.. and it was very eye opening to me . I believe we should be careful with all the words that are coming out of our mouths.
I never said I was un-spotted from the world. I struggle every day, but I will not lie about I never got your text.. I will say it straight forward that I did not answer because whatever reason, and I will try to answer it even if I don't want to, on the other line may be a person that needs something, even if they just want to yell at me For ex. my father is a prety difficult person, he'll go on and on about things and it gets annoying, and sometimes I have to tell him I can't talk to you today. We all have theses struggles. And like I said God sees what we can and can't do . Nobody ever will read all terms and cond. on any program.
Not all lies or half- truth are the same like I already gave the ex with Rahab and there's others , In the ten commandments it's said not to bear false testimony AGAINST your neighbor. That is the worst. I know people say sin is sin.. but God treated different sins with different punishments, even though" the wages of sin is death". Even if Jesus raised the whole law to a higher level. If David only had looked at Bathsheba, He would have not suffered the consequences that he did.
Our conscience will tell us when we jumped the horse, the Holy Spirit will convict us to repent and repair, go to that person and make it right, but a lot of times we are to proud.. that was me.. I knew I was wrong, I knew I had to go admit to the person not just to God, humiliate myself.. It took me a while to be able to do that, I'll snap at my kids and then remember that I have to be gentle.. but I will feel bad about it and try not to do it.. Even if you are going to laugh at this I will tell you that in order for me to be more disciplined about how I talk , my tone, I will eat a garlic because I don't like that smell.. to remind me that sin stinks..
If I were to tell you all the hurt I've been through.. only God gave me the power to forgive.. and if you've made yourself that same sin it's easier to forgive somebody else or should be.... but things that you know you've never done.. when they are done to you... it's much harder to forgive. Whenever I feel like that I read Psalms , Job and Revelations.. weird.. but it helps me.. Most Times I'll just open the bible and God will speak to me directly to the problem.
If by my previous post I made you feel that I am perfect, I apologize, You are right people do need hope and our hope is only in Jesus. If people get offended by my posts I will try to resume myself to just reading..
God Bless you
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Actually, Emanuela, what you said regarding Peter and born again was:
You say that in you opinion at that particular time Peter was not born again , my opinion I don't know... earlier we see that he made the declaration of faith in Messiah as the son of God and that constitutes for some the moment you are born again, I don't agree with that either. Another discussion can be started only by what it means to be born again: the faith, the spirit ,the water, the repentance, the persistence, the fruit ? It's definitely all of these . But can it be just some of these ? From a genuine Faith all the others should flow naturally.
Therefore, I was under the impression that you do not understand the new birth. You mentioned a new discussion about what it means to be born again. It is a worthy topic. Very.
There is no doubt that you love Jesus. I am not offended by your posts. I enjoy talking to you. It is helping me find some perspective about many of the things on my own mind.
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I mean true believers who are really born again. Also, the new birth does not apply to fallen angels. Jesus did not die to redeem them.
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Think about it. True believers would not fall away from the truth but would remain ... true.
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Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on
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Hi Emanuela,
Welcome to the group. Thank you for raising some excelent questions for discussion.
To start with, I have been in Bible studies when this passage has came up.......and a few Christians stated adamantly that they didn't believe God struck Ananias and Sapphira down because He is a loving God and would not do such a thing.
I think that people like that don't really know Almighty God of the Bible.
My feeling is that Ananias and Sapphira were really not true believers. I don't think that Satan can penetrate the heart of a true believer. Judas was intimately with our Lord for over three years........and he never received Jesus into his heart. Just as A. & S. never truly were saved. Satan entered their hearts. Jesus said in Matthew 15:18, " But the things that proceed out of the mouth come from the heart, and those defile the man." (like maybe lies?)
Also, Jesus explains in Matthew 12:32."..........but whoever shall speak against the Holy Spirit , it shall not be forgiven him, either in this age, or in the age to come."
Now that sounds pretty final to me.
And just wondering......if A. & S. were buried in the ground of the land in question........?
Grace and Peace.
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Calvin's Commentary
1. It was incredible virtue, that the rich men did give of their own accord, not only of their money, but also of their land, that they might relieve the poor. But now he shows that Satan had invented a shift to get into that holy company, and that under color of such excellent virtue; for he hath wonderful wiles of hypocrisy to insinuate himself. This way does Satan assault the Church, as he cannot prevail by open war. But we must especially in this place have respect unto the work of the Holy Ghost. For in this history he meant to declare, first, how acceptable singleness of heart is to God, and what abomination hypocrisy is in his sight; secondly, how greatly he allowed [approves] the holy and pure policy and government of his Church. For this is the principal point, the punishment with which He punished Ananias and his wife. As the greatness of the punishment thereof did at that time terrify them all, so it is unto us a testimony that God cannot abide this unfaithfulness, when as bearing a show of holiness where there is none, we do mock him despicably. For if, having weighed all the circumstances, we be wanting to know the sum, Luke condemned no other fault in Ananias than this, that he meant to deceive God and the Church with a reigned/false offering. Yet there were more evils packed under this dissimulation: the contempt of God, whom he feared not, though he knew his wickedness; sacrilegious defrauding, because he kept back part of that which he professed to be holy to God; perverse vanity and ambition, because he boasted himself in the presence of men, without having any respect unto God's judgment; want of faith, because he would never have gone this way to work, unless he had mistrusted God; the corrupting of a godly and holy order; furthermore, the hypocrisy itself was a great offense of itself. [237] The fact of Ananias did bear a goodly show, [238] although he had given only the half of his land. Neither is this a small virtue, for a rich man to bestow the half of his goods upon the poor; but the sacrifices of the ungodly are an abomination to God, (Proverbs 15:8;) neither can anything please him where the singleness of heart is wanting. For this cause is it that Christ makes more account of the two mites offered by the widow, than of the great sums of others, who of their great heaps gave some part, (Luke 21:2.) This is the cause why God doth show an example of such sharp punishment in Ananias. Now, let us note every point by itself. He laid it at the feet of the apostles. Lo, what ambition does! Ananias is not ashamed to be accounted one of the best; therefore, although he be greedy of money, yet to the end he may purchase a name amongst men, he deprived himself of some part of his riches. In the meanwhile, he doth not consider that he lies and deceives in the sight of God, and that God will punish this lie. So it is, that he honored the apostles' feet more than God's eyes. Wherefore, we must take good heed, that when we do well, we do not seek to be praised of the bystanders; [239] and it is not without cause that Christ says, that it is profitable for us when we give our alms, to have the left hand ignorant of that which the right hand doth.
3. And Peter said. How did Peter know Ananias' fraud (and purloining?) Undoubtedly by the revelation of the Spirit. Therefore, Luke signifies unto us, that the apostles did after a sort represent God's person. If the Spirit of God, by the mouth of a mortal man, do so painful urge a hypocrite, being otherwise painted with the beautiful color of virtues, how shall the reprobate abide the voice of God himself, with the sound of the trumpet, when they shall appear before his judgment-seat? Furthermore, Peter pointed out the cruelness and horribleness of the offense [240] by his question, when he says, that Satan had filled the heart of Ananias. For there is no man whose heart is not pricked with the pricks of Satan, and all men are also many ways tempted, yea, these temptations pierce into their minds; but where Satan possesses the heart, he reigns in the whole man, having, as it were, expelled God. This is a sign of a reprobate, to be so addicted and given over to Satan, that the Spirit of God hath no place. That which followed afterward concerning lying may have a double sense; either that he did falsely bear a show of the Spirit, or that he lied against the Spirit. And, indeed, it is word for word mentiri Spiritum; but forasmuch as the Greek word [pseudesthai] is joined with a double accusative case and that doth better agree with the text [context,] I am rather of this mind, that Ananias is reprehended, because he did lie falsely to the Holy Ghost. Which he confirmed shortly after, when he reprimanded this unto him, that he hath lied unto God, and not unto men. Wherefore we must take great heed, that hypocrisy reign not in us, which hath this wickedness proper to it, to go about to deceive God, and, as it were cornicum oculos configere. To go about to make blind those which are most wise; [241] which cannot be without a disloyal and unseemly mock. Wherefore it is not without cause that Peter says, that where this cometh to pass the heart is possessed of Satan. For who dares (unless he were void of reason) so blaspheme God? Therefore Peter asked him as of some wonder, because such blindness is horrible.
4. Did it not remaining. This amplified the offense because he sinned, being enforced by no necessity. For seeing it is no just or lawful excuse to have been provoked by some other means, how much worse is it to run headlong unto wickedness willingly, and, as it were of set purpose to pull down God's vengeance? We gather out of this, that no man was enforced to sell his goods or lands. For Peter saith, that Ananias had free liberty to keep both his land and his money; because in the second member, the field which was sold is taken for the price itself. Therefore he should nevertheless have been counted faithful, though he had kept that which was his own. Whereby it appeareth that they are men destitute of their right wits, who say that it is not lawful for the faithful to have anything of their own.
Thou hast not lied to men, but to God. Although the words be diversely construed, yet do I not doubt but that this confirmed the former sentence. For hypocrites do so enwrap themselves in so many shifts, that they think they have nothing to do with God. And Peter speaks hence expressly, because Ananias had deceived the Church. But he ought to have considered, that
"where two or three be gathered together in the name of Christ, he is present there as the chief governor," (Matthew 18:20;)
He ought to have behaved himself no otherway in that assembly, than if he should have seen God with his eyes. For seeing that God will reign in the Church, if we give him any reverence, we must reverence that rule and government religiously which he exercises by his Word. The apostles were indeed men, but not private men, because God had put them in his stead. Furthermore, we must note, that he said that he lied to God who doth lie to the Holy Ghost. For the divinity of the Holy Ghost is manifestly proved by this form of speech. In like sort Paul says, "Ye are the temples of God, because his Spirit dwelleth in you," (1 Corinthians 3:16, 17; and 6:19.)
5. When Ananias heard these things. The death of Ananias doth, indeed, declare and prove the force of the word, which Paul cloth highly extol; to wit, that it is the savor of death unto death to those which perish, (2 Corinthians 2:16.) He speaks, indeed, of the spiritual death of the soul, but there was a visible sign in the body of Ananias of that punishment which cannot be seen with the eyes of men. He was not slain with sword, by force, nor hand, but was stricken dead with the only hearing of the voice. When we hear this, let the threatening of the gospel terrify us, and humble us in time, lest we also feel the like effect. For that which is spoken of Christ,
"He shall slay the wicked with the breath of his mouth." (Isaiah 11:4,)
doth not only appertain to the head of the wicked, but also to every member. For those which refuse the salvation offered in his word, it must needs be deadly to them, which was naturally wholesome. But and if any man do think it an absurd thing that the apostle did punish Ananias bodily, first, I answer, that this was an extraordinary thing; secondly, that this was one of the gifts of the Spirit, as it appeared by the 19th chapter of the First to the Corinthians, (verse 10.) After which sort we shall afterward see Elymas, the sorcerer, stricken with blindness by Paul, (Acts 13:8.) Therefore, Peter did nothing which was impertinent to his function, when he did in time shoot that dart which the Holy Ghost had given him. And whereas some think that this was too cruel a punishment, this cometh to pass, because, weighing Ananias' sin in their own and not in God's balance, they count that but a light offense which was a most great and grievous crime, being full of such heinous offenses as I have already declared. Other some do think that this was nothing so, because they see many hypocrites escape scot free daily, which do no less mock God than did Ananias; yea, because they themselves being most gross guiltys of God, are yet notwithstanding unpunished for their wickedness. But as God hath poured out visible graces upon his Church in the beginning, to the end we may know that he will be present with us by the secret power of his Spirit, yea, he showed that openly by external signs, which we feel inwardly by the experiment of faith; so he declared by the visible punishment of two, how horrible a judgment remaineth for all hypocrites, which shall mock God and his Church.
And there came great fear This was the Lord's purpose, by punishing one to make the rest afraid, that they might reverently beware of all hypocrisy. And that which Luke saith, that they feared, doth appertain unto us also. For God meant to give all ages a lesson at that time, that they may learn to deal sincerely and uprightly with him. In the mean season, the punishment of this wicked person ought to have encouraged the godly hereafter to consecrate their goods more freely to God and the poor; because they might gather how precious alms was in the sight of God, seeing the profaning thereof was so punished. [242]
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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PT,
We are going to disagree on this one. The gospel truth is that Jesus died for our sins and we could do nothing to earn it or retain it. The born again child of God is His eternally. Grace does not give us the right to sin, but it does secure us in His family because salvation is all of God on our behalf doing for man what he could never do for himself.
I agree with the growing numb part and acknowldge that sin is still sin in God's eyes. The difference is found in the offering, the Blood of the Lamb.
Lord Bless,
LT
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76 % of Americans proclaim to be Christians, but you have to wonder what is the real % of born again believers. I like the " growing numb to sin " expression you used. We should be sensitive and constantly bothered by the sin in our lives, but even more than that we should feel the oppression of the lawless around us, to the point of tormenting us ... like PETER SAYS ABOUT LOT IN 2 PETER 2 :7-8.
And He delivered righteous Lot, who had been oppressed by the behavior of the lawless in lustfulness.
2Pe 2:8 For that righteous one living among them day after day, in seeing and in hearing, his righteous soul was tormented with their lawless deeds.
2Pe 2:9 But the Lord knows to deliver the godly out of temptation, and to keep the unjust for a day of judgment, being punished,
2Pe 2:10 and most of all those going after flesh in the lust of defilement, and despising rulership, darers, self-pleasing; they do not tremble at glories, speaking evil;We all have to pray for each other,for this country... for Christians to "resist the Devil so that he will flee from you " instead of inviting him over for dinner and a movie..
God bless us all!
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Based on Barna's studies 80% of the nation call themselves Christans. Only 16% of the nation believes in the fundementals or essentials of the faith. Nearly 2/3 of those 80% deny major portions of the Bible (i.e. many do not believe in hell as a real place or that satan or the Holy Spirit really exist). Thus, must people are exposed to a false Christains and assume that the false is the real thing when indeed it is not.
Lord Bless,
LT
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