All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
JOEL OSTEEN
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Permalink Reply by Ron Payne on
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Hi JB, Dave and all on AAG.
I personally believe that Joel's sermons, lean towards tickling the ears of his Listeners.
I believe that most of the comments placed in AAG in regard to Joel Osteen's preaching and writings, are not against Joel himself, but rather the thin line that is usually included in all his sermons, namely, "Prosperity".
Do we have the authority to question any Preacher who continually lays emphasis on Believing and thereby promises that we will then experience financial prosperity? I sincerely believe we do.
In fact we would be failing the continual Biblical warnings and instructions listed below, if we did not.
Unfortunately, Joel's emphasis on prosperity is also obvious to those who are not Christians and many of them are quick to point out the falsehood of "Believe to be Rich".
Sadly, due to Osteen's continual emphasis on Prosperity, one cannot criticise the message without including the messenger. It is therefore Joel who will have to give an account for what he preaches and not those who dare to question his prosperity messages.
Has God given us instructions to question and rebuke others who step out of line? Yes! I believe He does, especially when prosperity is continually preached side by side and placed on the same level with the suffering of Christ on the Cross.
2Ti_4:2
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine.
Tit_1:13
This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Tit_2:15
These things speak, and exhort, and rebuke with all authority. Let no man despise thee.
Joe, you ask that God be merciful to those Christians who do criticise Joel, I in turn would rather ask God to be merciful on those who don't.
Your Brother in Christ,
Ron.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Ron. Thanks for your response, I find it very amusing though, that a person that claims to be an apologist, “I am not saying that you do”; however we have a lot of people that think they know the truth; and will criticize those that doesn’t quite see things as they do.
We can only exhort, rebuke, or criticize others based on our knowledge or understanding of the Word of God. Now we find there are those that are claiming to be apologist, from various denominations with different convictions, or POV, trying to correct another from his understanding of the Word that was taught to him, as being truth.
So who is saying who is right? We can use the same scriptures to prove our point as the other uses to disprove it.
So from an outsider’s or a babe in Christ POV; It merely becomes conjecture, which lends itself to confusion, causing some to stumble over the Word.
So if we have a different opinion than another, concerning the Word of God, wouldn’t it be better served if we just questioned them about their comprehension of it, rather than rebuking them openly, based on our knowledge, and search the scriptures for conformation? Or are we too set in our own ways that we can’t learn from another, and we stand as a judge of those that seem to come short of our understanding? Pro.16:18.
This is why I seem to stand against anyone that proclaims to be an apologist; he is only an apologist to those with like convictions as he. For one that is matured in the Word: to be rebuked by one that has been taught by denominational doctrines, rather than by revelation through the Word by the Spirit, can cause a little contention, envy, and strife between the two.
Let’s prove Joel, or the so-called WOF preachers are wrong in their messages, scripturally, rather than intellectually or conjecturally.
Religions built on intellectualism, are metaphysical in nature, and are not based on faith.
But the just shall live by faith.
Blessings to you my brother.
Joe
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Brother Joe,
One can be serving in a denomination and still be Spirit taught ... don't you think??? Are you not doing exactly what you have just spoken against???
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One can be serving in a denomination and still be Spirit taught ... don't you think???
Are you not doing exactly what you have just spoken against???
LT. Of course I believe that a person can belong to a denomination and still be taught by the Spirit as long as that person listens to the Spirit, and not be totally led by the preacher to the extent that they will do whatever that preacher tells them to do. We have seen those that are led by a person that claims to be leading them in the right direction, just to find out that they are being led to their destruction. Like the whack-o from Waco Tex. And others we read about.
But if I were a preacher I believe I would teach the people that they have the same access to the throne as I, I would teach not to believe what I say, just because I say it, read the Word for yourselves and allow the Holy Spirit confirm what is being taught. One of my Pastors said that very thing from the pulpit on more than one occasion. He says to listen to the Holy Spirit, He will not let you down, and I’m a human being and subject to mistakes and failure. So with that in mind, I could sit in Jeremiah Wright’s church and be led or taught by the Spirit, but not by that preacher. He will keep me in perfect peace, if mind is stayed on Him, because I trust in Him. Isa.26:3.
He “the Spirit” may be telling me to get out of there though. Ha
As far as the other question you asked, I will reread and re-evaluate. Thanks,
Joe
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JB,
I placed this video with a secondary purpose in mind, a purpose that goes beyond the erroneous doctrines of the prosperity preachers, I want to use that video to also help us see how someone as sound as MacArthur can still misrepresent another preacher. I agree with MacArthur on his pronouncements against the teachings of Osteen, yet I do find where Joel is not being represented correctly or being taken out of context. We all need to understand that unless we have spend the time to carefully review what we perceive as erroneous doctrine, we best leave correction to those who have. I love John and the majority of his teachings, but I believe his criticism of Joel could have been better informed. Having said that, I still agree with John.
All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, 2 Timothy 3, and it’s scripture that we must align all teachings to.
Stating that the teachings of anyone that calls themselves a Christian are false/wrong is very seldom an easy thing to do. It is a painful thing. It is very hard to do, among the hardest things that MUST be done in the body. We should all be conscious that we are imperfect people and hence exercise Grace/patience/love with each other, but loving someone means also correcting them, because as we do we also protect others who may be under the influence of the person needing the correction. Correction is to be handled as we are taught in scripture to do, in Matthew 18 and other places like James. I am very aware of the tremendous responsibility I am placing upon myself for placing videos or a post here that looks to correct well known preachers. If I am the one who is wrong, that means I am slandering a child of God and God does not take that lightly. Teachers, preachers etc… will be under a stricter judgment. Let me also say that I get Joel’s pod casts and have watched him, not in a consistent basis, but periodically for many years.
James 3:1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.
Having said all that, I still think Joel’s teachings are very hurtful to the body of Christ and I do know what he means to convey with his talks. Joe, I must do what I believe to be right to do. God will correct me, no doubt, if I am mistaken. Anyone here is also welcome to correct me if they see me erring. I placed my biblical interpretations in a public forum Knowing that others may find fault with my impute. That is fine and welcome. If anyone can edify me, by way of correction, by all means do so.
Love and blessings to you.
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Permalink Reply by Tonya Turcotte on
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Hi Jamie. I've read your entry multiple times so I will attempt to share a response that is void of my opinion. Our sovereign God can & does "plant seeds" to be sown & is clearly illustrated/demonstrated throughout God's word with the people He chose to use & what grew out of their situation/circumstance. Also, ALL things work together for His good.
I've not heard this sermon you speak of but trust God knows what He's doing..:-). If you don't believe in your heart this style of preaching is not for you after seeking The Father's guidance then trust that. It is our responsibility to know who is shepherding us. Know the Word and it will guide you.
Personally, I make sure those who are leading me are in "relationship" with God & don't favor religion. Getting my ears tickled won't help me to "stand" when the attacks come.
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Concerning prosperity gospel....
God has blessed me over and over again. He has done it all my life. He has made sure that I have had adequate money to keep up and help my children in their dilemmas. I have still been able to share with others and the pocket doesn't run completely dry.
What people with wrong thinking have in mind is having MORE than enough. Will He keep us in wealth to where the money doesn't get low? No. He's going to make sure there is enough to get us through but not to overflowing pockets. Why not? Because we would be tempted to squander it.
So, I think it is important to understand prosperity in the way God gives it. He meets our needs. Sometimes there is enough for extras.
When I was in Europe with the military, our church was having a division issue. The church members decided to come to my house and wait out the meeting the men were having. We were airmen and didn't have much. I made a pot of chili, using whatever I had in the house to fill the pot. That pot of chili lasted to feed every last person, including the missionary that was at the meeting. He ate last. When he finished eating, the pot was empty but everyone was full. That is prosperity!
What is your interpretation of prosperity?
Blessings...
Rita
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Let’s look at prosperity from Abraham’s point of view.
Though these are blessings for obedience, yet they represent some of the promises made by God to Abraham and His seed. Which is Christ, so if we are in Christ and Christ is in us, are we not heirs of God and joint heirs with Christ? Ro.8:17 So let us reason just for a moment.
Deut. 28:1 It shall come to pass, that if thou wilt hearken diligently to the voice of the Lord thy God, to observe and to do all His commandments, which I command thee this day.
And all these blessings shall come on thee, and overtake thee, if thou shalt hearken unto the voice of the LORD thy God.
1) Blessed shalt thou be in the city,
2) Blessed shalt thou be in the field.
3) Blessed shall be the fruit of thy body,
4) And the fruit of thy ground,
5) The fruit of thy cattle,
6) The increase of thy kine,
7) The flocks of thy sheep.
8) Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store.
9) Blessed shalt thou be when thou comest in,
10) Blessed shalt thou be when thou goest out.
11) The LORD shall cause thine enemies that rise up against thee to be smitten before thy face:
12) They shall come out against thee one way, and flee before thee seven ways.
13) The LORD shall command the blessing upon thee in thy storehouses,
14) And in all that thou settest thine hand unto;
15) He shall bless thee in the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
16) The LORD shall establish thee an holy people unto himself, as he hath sworn unto thee, if thou shalt keep the commandments of the LORD thy God, and walk in his ways.
17) And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of the LORD;
18) And they shall be afraid of thee.
19) And the LORD shall make thee plenteous in goods, in the fruit of thy body, and in the fruit of thy cattle, and in the fruit of thy ground, in the land which the LORD sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
20) The LORD shall open unto thee his good treasure,
21) The heaven to give the rain unto thy land in his season,
22) And to bless all the work of thine hand:
23) And thou shalt lend unto many nations,
24) And thou shalt not borrow.
25) And the LORD shall make thee the head, and not the tail;
26) And thou shalt be above only, and thou shalt not be beneath; if that thou hearken unto the commandments of the LORD thy God, which I command thee this day, to observe and to do them:
27) And thou shalt not go aside from any of the words which I command thee this day, to the right hand, or to the left, to go after other gods to serve them.
Now let’s look at the New Testament.
Galatians 3:13-14; Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith…..16. Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
And the 29th vs. , And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.
2 Cor. 1:20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
So I ask; did Abraham just barely have enough to get by?
Then how can we be content in whatever state we find ourselves in, unless we know God has something better for us; if we can only believe?
Think of this, No truth; No freedom; know truth; know freedom.
Joe
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The problem is not with the expectation of something better, but rather the presentation by some speakers as to what the something better is, why you will receive it and when you will receive it. The false presentation misleads people and traps them in a system not designed by God, nor blessed by Him.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Mary O on
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I have listened to Joel's sermons and found them to be uplifting.
I feel that sometimes that isn't what's needed. In my opinion, Joel preaches what everyone wants to hear. He kind of goes with the positive flow. It's true, I do need positive and uplifting. There are other times when a preacher needs to get to the heart of the matter. Joel doesn't really go against the grain. Just personal opinion, it takes more courage to preach what others need to hear even when they don't want to hear it. I have never seen Joel do that. Have you? Personal opinion again, I feel we speak the truth to the end result that it changes lives.
God bless,
Mary
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