Trayvon Martin's Death: It was "God's Plan"

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Carla on July 19, 2012 at 1:34pm

Hi Colby,

This does profoundly disturb me.  I'm not sure how anyone could put themselves in the position of 'God' and say that it is this way or that way. 

 

God is good and God is Love.  I pray that this family will be comforted and cared for at this difficult time.  Sometimes people go to far and declare too much of what they think about something (ie: Zimmerman saying "I feel that it was all God's plan, and for me to second guess it or judge it."'... it is harmful.

 

It would be best to say "I don't know"....  so that's my answer.

 

Blessings, Carla

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 3:36pm

Carla,

 

Thank you for sharing your comments.   Your point is well taken that "God is good and God is love."  I don't think we can ever emphasize that enough.  And yes, prayer and understanding are needed here.

 

Whether or not George Zimmerman was acting in self-defense in shooting and killing Trayvon Martin, as he contends, or is guilty of second-degree murder as charged by prosecutors assigned to the case, is a matter that will be adjudicated by the courts. 

 

But, there is another judgment that awaits him.  Each of us is responsible for our actions; each of us will have to give an accounting of our lives to God.  

• "For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, so that each one may receive
  what is due for what he has done in the body, whether good or evil." (2 Corinthians 5:10).

 

From my perspective, for Zimmerman to assign responsibility for his actions to God and to come across as a spokesman for God ("I feel it was all God's plan) is the height of hubris.  I could be wrong, but I imagine Zimmerman's encounter with God going like this (assuming he doesn't change his ways in the meantime).

• "God, there's nothing for me to say.  There's nothing I need to explain or justify to you.  I wasn't responsible for Martin's death.  It was ALL YOUR PLAN."

 

To our God and Father be glory for ever and ever,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 19, 2012 at 7:26pm

Colby, I saw your discussion and it kind of goes with what I have studied today in God's Word. God has a higher purpose.

Job 42:1-6

New International Version (NIV)

Job

42 Then Job replied to the Lord:

2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.

4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

While I do think that God wants us to try to look at things from a spiritual persepective and not a worldly perspective and even to try to look at things from God's perspective, as much as humanly possible, we still are very limited in "knowing" alot of what God is doing. 2 Cor 5:16 emphasizes how much we need to see others spiritually. This would include those on both sides of this story. Perhaps what happened was not God's will but man exercising liberties and yet it was all in God's plan, as God can work man's wrong choices, whether that man is godly or ungodly into His over all plan. Remember Genesis 50:20.

Whatever we are facing we must give it to Jesus. We can trust Him for the outcome. Even in something as tragic and confusing as this story. Jesus can make something beautiful from it.

 

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 3:59pm

Amanda,

 

Perhaps what happened was not God's will but man exercising liberties and yet it was
all in God's plan, as God can work man's wrong choices, whether that man is godly or
ungodly into His over all plan.

 

Indeed!  Whenever tragedies occur, we should prayerfully ask and ponder: Is there any good that come from this?  What can we learn from this experience?

 

Thank you for sharing the verses from Job Chapter 42. The Bible and especially the Old Testament, is full of stories of people failing to follow through with commitments they made to God--of failing to carry out or thwarting his plans--leaving God disappointed, frustrated and angry.

• "The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every
  intention of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually" (Genesis 6:5).

 

God does have a "higher purpose" for us, which is God's grand plan that is unfolding before us in the world, as written and revealed to us in the Holy Scriptures.  In the end everything will turn out fine.  So if things are messy now, that only means it's not the end.

 

Yes, our knowledge of God is incomplete and imperfect--constrained by our limited intellects and fallen states.

• "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,
  declares the LORD" (Isaiah 55:8).

 

May God fill us with joy and peace in believing, so we may abound in hope by the power of the Holy Spirit,

 

Colby

    

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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on July 20, 2012 at 4:34am

Colby,

³⁰ “For the sons of Judah have done evil in my sight, declares the Lord. They have set ^htheir detestable things in the house ⁱthat is called by my name, to ^hdefile it. ³¹ And they have built the high places of ^jTopheth, which is in ^kthe Valley of the Son of Hinnom, ^lto burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, ^mwhich I did not command, nor did it come into my mind.

 

Some things are so evil, that the thought of it never enters God's mind. I believe this is one of those occasions. God does not think evil. I have no doubt that God will turn the situation to good...but He certainly didn't orchestrate this, nor did He plan it.

 

Blessings.....

Rita

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 4:34pm

Rita,

Some things are so evil, that the thought of it never enters God's mind. I believe this is one of those occasions. God does not think evil. I have no doubt that God will turn the situation to good...but He certainly didn't orchestrate this, nor did He plan it.

Like you, I can't accept Zimmerman's incredibly presumptuous and outrageous claim that shooting and killing Trayvon Martin "was all God's plan."  God didn't pull trugger of Zimmerman's handgun; Zimmerman did.

• Isaiah 55:8: "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,'
  declares the Lord."

David M. Carr, an Old Testament professor, had this to say in a CNN interview.

• “What's particularly striking to me in this instance,” was that “George Zimmerman
  is attributing something he did to God’s plan.”
• “It's one thing to attribute a natural disaster to God’s plan to try and make sense of
  the world,” he said. “It’s another thing to justify something you did as God’s plan.
  That’s taking it to another level.”

We should be very careful and cautious about invoking God's name, especially when using it as a self-serving attempt to rationalize actions for which we are trying to evade responsibility.  In the end, we will be held accountable before God for our actions.  The lessons from the Old Testament  of men constantly misreading and getting in the way of God's plans, including the one you shared, are particularly instructive in this regard.

 

Grace be with you,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on July 20, 2012 at 9:55am

Colby

 

I am quite disturbed by such a proclamation.  To involve God in the planning of an act of murder is just hard to comprehend .  To feel no regret over taking another human beings life is beyond my ability to comprehend. I have know several people who had no interest in God at all who have experienced incredible remorse over having killed some one even though , in their cases it was accidental .

 

At the same time I realize that I have never yet been put in the position where I had to defend my life or the life of any other. I don't know many of the details of the encounter as I do not watch television and only listen to the radio on my way to work .   I  pretty much get five minutes of news on the way to work and some from the internet when I accassionally get on that so I can't speak from knowing all the facts.

 

But it is not the facts of the case that I am addressing .  It is the outlandish statement that was made about this being ' God's plan '  and therefore being beyond  debate or cause for any further contemplation. As was previously stated , I also believe that God can make a lot of good result from this  incident , but to say that God was anyway involved is simply   ridiculous .  God doesn't need actions such as this to advance His plan for this world or any part of it .

 

Statements like this simply add fuel to the arguments that christians are fanatics and not to be taken seriously . I do not know if the man who did the killing is a professing christian or not but unbelievers and those who are out to attack christianity will promote him as being one  and use these comments to fuel their arguments against christianity.

 

As far as Martin's parents refusing to meet with Zimmerman . I can honestly see no reason why they would  take the man's apology seriously , especially in light of the fact that he claims no remorse over killing their son and even goes so far as to say  it was ' all God's plan ' .

 

I am fully aware that God can change the attitudes of this man ( Zimmerman ) and can make good come from this terribly unfortunate incident  but rash statements that he has made can really be a detrement to the cause of Christ  .  I guess that is what disturbs me most about this.

 

Anyhow , , let us pray that God does accomplish something good from this and is able to counteract the potential damage of these rash ( to say the least) statements.

 

God bless.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 5:09pm

Charles,

Thank you for adding your comments to the  discussion.  Like you, I don't know all of the details of this case and haven't followed it particularly closely.  However, I was struck with absolute amazement when I watched George Zimmerman tell Sean Hannity on Fox News that the shooting death of Trayvon Martin"was all God's plan" and that there was no reason for him to "second guess it or judge it" 

 

As you observed, the "rash statements that he has made can really be a detrement to the cause of Christ." 

 

Why is Zimmerman invoking the "God's plan" defense, I wonder? 

 

Was it a "rash" excuse he came up with on the spot, or was it a carefully calculated gambit as part of a strategy in granting the interview?  It is highly unusual for someone charged with murder to grant any interviews because the statements they make can be used by the prosecution as evidence against them in the trial.  In granting the interview, Zimmerman and his attorney no doubt discussed strategy about what to say and what not to say, realizing he could potentially hurt or help his case and the public's perceptions of him.  So, I have my suspicions.

 

Was he thinking that invoking God would galvinize Christians into seeing his cause as righteous, and that they would rush to his defense with moral and financial support? 

 

I shudder to think how his remarks are being construed by nonbelievers.  As you commented, they are "detrimental to the cause of Christ."

 

I  join you in praying that God, in his infinite wisdom, will see that something good comes out of this tragedy. 

 

Grace and love be with you in the name of the Messiah,

 

Colby

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on July 20, 2012 at 11:29am

I suppose the big questions are really about the Sovereignty of God and God's Plan -- can a Sovereign God  allow man to have liberties to make wrong choices and to even commit evil but still be in control and His over all plan still be on schedule and in effect and not be thwarted? 

 

I found this article:

Question: "Why does God allow evil?" http://www.gotquestions.org/God-allow-evil.html

Answer: The Bible describes God as holy (Isaiah 6:3), righteous (Psalm 7:11), just (Deuteronomy 32:4), and sovereign (Daniel 4:17-25). These attributes tell us the following about God: (1) God is capable of preventing evil, and (2) God desires to rid the universe of evil. So, if both of these are true, why does God allow evil? If God has the power to prevent evil and desires to prevent evil, why does He still allow evil? Perhaps a practical way to look at this question would be to consider some alternative ways people might have God run the world:

1) God could change everyone’s personality so that they cannot sin. This would also mean that we would not have a free will. We would not be able to choose right or wrong because we would be “programmed” to only do right. Had God chosen to do this, there would be no meaningful relationships between Him and His creation.

Instead, God made Adam and Eve innocent but with the ability to choose good or evil. Because of this, they could respond to His love and trust Him or choose to disobey. They chose to disobey. Because we live in a real world where we can choose our actions but not their consequences, their sin affected those who came after them (us). Similarly, our decisions to sin have an impact on us and those around us and those who will come after us.

2) God could compensate for people’s evil actions through supernatural intervention 100 percent of the time. God would stop a drunk driver from causing an automobile accident. God would stop a lazy construction worker from doing a substandard job on a house that would later cause grief to the homeowners. God would stop a father who is addicted to drugs or alcohol from doing any harm to his wife, children, or extended family. God would stop gunmen from robbing convenience stores. God would stop high school bullies from tormenting the brainy kids. God would stop thieves from shoplifting. And, yes, God would stop terrorists from flying airplanes into buildings.

While this solution sounds attractive, it would lose its attractiveness as soon as God’s intervention infringed on something we wanted to do. We want God to prevent horribly evil actions, but we are willing to let “lesser-evil” actions slide—not realizing that those “lesser-evil” actions are what usually lead to the “greater-evil” actions. Should God only stop actual sexual affairs, or should He also block our access to pornography or end any inappropriate, but not yet sexual, relationships? Should God stop “true” thieves, or should He also stop us from cheating on our taxes? Should God only stop murder, or should He also stop the “lesser-evil” actions done to people that lead them to commit murder? Should God only stop acts of terrorism, or should He also stop the indoctrination that transformed a person into a terrorist?

3) Another choice would be for God to judge and remove those who choose to commit evil acts. The problem with this possibility is that there would be no one left, for God would have to remove us all. We all sin and commit evil acts (Romans 3:23; Ecclesiastes 7:20; 1 John 1:8). While some people are more evil than others, where would God draw the line? Ultimately, all evil causes harm to others.

Instead of these options, God has chosen to create a “real” world in which real choices have real consequences. In this real world of ours, our actions affect others. Because of Adam’s choice to sin, the world now lives under the curse, and we are all born with a sin nature (Romans 5:12). There will one day come a time when God will judge the sin in this world and make all things new, but He is purposely “delaying” in order to allow more time for people to repent so that He will not need to condemn them (2 Peter 3:9). Until then, He IS concerned about evil. When He created the Old Testament laws, the goal was to discourage and punish evil. He judges nations and rulers who disregard justice and pursue evil. Likewise, in the New Testament, God states that it is the government’s responsibility to provide justice in order to protect the innocent from evil (Romans 13). He also promises severe consequences for those who commit evil acts, especially against the "innocent" (Mark 9:36-42).

In summary, we live in a real world where our good and evil actions have direct consequences and indirect consequences upon us and those around us. God’s desire is that for all of our sakes we would obey Him that it might be well with us (Deuteronomy 5:29). Instead, what happens is that we choose our own way, and then we blame God for not doing anything about it. Such is the heart of sinful man. But Jesus came to change men’s hearts through the power of the Holy Spirit, and He does this for those who will turn from evil and call on Him to save them from their sin and its consequences (2 Corinthians 5:17). God does prevent and restrain some acts of evil. This world would be MUCH WORSE were not God restraining evil. At the same time, God has given us the ability to choose good and evil, and when we choose evil, He allows us, and those around us, to suffer the consequences of evil. Rather than blaming God and questioning God on why He does not prevent all evil, we should be about the business of proclaiming the cure for evil and its consequences—Jesus Christ!

Recommended Resource: If God, Why Evil?: A New Way to Think about the Question by Norman Geisler.

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 2:57pm

Alan Rudman, a Baptist pastor, posted this in a blog, which makes sense to me biblically speaking.

• "It appears that George Zimmerman sees God has a divine force that causes both good and evil.
  In addition, it appears that Zimmerman believes that God causes people to die a horrible death
  (e.g. dying from a gunshot). Seeing God through these lenses forces us to believe that there is no
  cause and effect to our actions. If we bring a gun to a conflict and shoot someone, then we are
  responsible (though, legally we may not be liable for punishment). ...

 

• For George Zimmerman, saying that it was God’s plan that Trayvon Martin died is a half-hearted
  attempt to not claim responsibility for his actions. He played a role in Martin’s death whether
  justified or not. In life, we cannot escape responsibility for the things we regret. Deep down inside,
  Zimmerman is in a world of hurt and he does the world no good by acting like he isn’t responsible."
  [Read the entire blog here]

 

Frankly, I believe we should let God speak for himself.  God does speak to us through his written Word. 
Isaiah 55:8: "'For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways,' declares the Lord."

David M. Carr, an Old Testament professor, articulates this point nicely in a CNN interview.

• “What's particularly striking to me in this instance,” Carr told CNN, was that “George
  Zimmerman is attributing something he did to God’s plan.”

 

• “It's one thing to attribute a natural disaster to God’s plan to try and make sense of the world,”
  he said. “It’s another thing to justify something you did as God’s plan. That’s taking it to
  another level.”

 

• “That lets you off the hook, but I think it can look to other people as a pretty transparent
  attempt at self-justification,” Carr added.

 

• “One thing that strikes me about many of the narratives in the Old Testament is there are so
  many places where characters think they know what God is up to, but we know because of the
  narrator in the story, they’re wrong.”

 

• “So the Bible speaks to the human misperception of what God is doing.”
  [Read the entire CNN article here]

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Permalink Reply by Carla on July 20, 2012 at 3:02pm

Zimmerman really needs to keep God out of it and take responsibility for himself.

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Permalink Reply by Colby on July 20, 2012 at 5:24pm

Carla,

Well said.  I think you nailed it!

 

Grace and peace be with you,

 

Colby

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