The resurrection and the cross

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Permalink Reply by feet breath on April 25, 2012 at 12:47pm

The shroud? I think that'd be risky because they probably associate the shroud with "Christendom". Anything "Christendom" they try to steer as far away as possible.

 

I tried something else to do with history with a JW on youtube and he said he'd just have to trust what God said (the watchtower) and not what man says or something like that.

 

I'm sorry if I'm being a downer. I'm just trying to be cautious what I can show them because these people are very hard to reach. and, if I show the wrong thing...

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Permalink Reply by Coffee Lover on June 1, 2012 at 5:48am

I'd start with "The Case for the Resurrection of Jesus" by Gary Habermas and Michael Licona. Gary Habermas is widely regarded as the foremost expert on the historical evidence for the resurrection and Michael Licona studied under Habermas. This book is very easy to follow. Lee Strobel has a book by the same title which is also very good.

We don't need to know the specifics of how it happened, we just need to know that it did. Here's a little quote you may also find useful by C.F.D Moule;

'If the coming into existence of the Nazarenes, a phenomenon undeniably attested by the New Testament, rips a great hole in history, a hole the size and shape of the Resurrection, what does the secular historian propose to stop it up with? … the birth and rapid rise of the Christian Church… remain an unsolved enigma for any historian who refuses to take seriously the only explanation offered by the Church itself'

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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on June 2, 2012 at 9:42am

Dear Feetbreeze

 

There are many types of " scientific evidence " . One of these is , as Josh Mcdowell explains in His book entitled

" More than a Carpenter " , is psychological evidence . In other words something happening that radically transforms the thinking and behavior of people .  Such is the case of the disciples after the resurrection .

 

As Josh McDowell states , there was a group of men who were hiding in fear and discouragement . They felt abandoned and in extreme danger from the people who had just killed the One they considered to be their Messiah.

Then after a very short time they were boldly proclaiming the resurrection from the dead of this same Messiah.

They went from groveling cowards to men who stood up to tyrants and persecutors so fully pursuaded that they had seen and spoken to their resurrected Lord that they were willing to give their lives  to proclaim this.  In a patentedly mono theistic society they were proclaiming Jesus as the Son of God Himself .  They were hated by Romans and fellow countrymen who were constantly seeking their lives.

 

But they continued to carry this message , even unto the courts of Caesar Himself.  As Josh McDowell also stated

" while it's true that many throughout history willing gave up their lives for what  they' believed' was true  yet was not . No one would give up theie lives for a cause they they ' knew ' to be false. "  They had seen Jesus crucified , though most from afar , they knew His body was placed in the tomb , Yet suddenly they were proclaiming that He was resurrected and ascended to the Father. They are filled with a fearless confidence that allowed them to boldly proclaim His name to the a hateful and antagonistic world.

 

Their is only one explanation . They had seen the living Lord and were fully pursuaded that H e had indeed risen from the dead .   If anyone knew the truth ( one way or the other ) it would be these men.

 

And today this is still the same.  Men and women who were the meanest , most antagonistic and violent people turn to becoming martyrs for the cause of Christ  . Why ? Because they too have experience the reality of the risen Lord . As has we all who claim the name of Jesus in spirit and in truth and were just as guilty before God as the basest of heathens.

 

Many causes  have come and gone and changed ( for brief periods of time ) the nature of people and civilizations but , as I stated , they came and went .  Yet true Christianity has survived persecution , misunderstanding , attempts at annihalation and abuse from within.  And yet lives are still changed  dramatically on a consistant basis by the porclamation of the gospel which is the death , burial  and resurrection of Jesus.

 

This is just one of many ' scientific ' evidences . Lee strobel covers many other examples in his excellent book that

coffee Lover mentioned in her comment.  I have read this book and it is truely amazing , but I have found the book 'More than a Carpenter' , by Josh McDowell to be more of a simple ( yet equally profound )  and much smaller  ( a big plus for me)  book.  It more addresses the person and personality  and actions of Jesus and His disciples as ' evidence of the resurrection.

 

As far as the cross being a post or a cross , I have heard arguements on both sides by people who claim to have historical evidence .  Having , obviously , not been there I don't really get too concerned one way or the other, because whether the instrument of death was a cross ( as we customarily view it ) or simply a pole that He was nailed  to the result was the same . He died for our sins .  I will leave the arguements and disputings of the matter to those who have much greater minds than mine.  As I said , it doesn't really matter which it was because to me the imporatant thing was what took  place on whichever it was.

 

God bless you ,my friend

 

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Permalink Reply by feet breath on June 2, 2012 at 9:51am

The thing is the people I need to witness to say they believe in the resurrection (all though if they were complelty honest with themselves they'd say they believe Jesus was recreated back into Michael the Archangel). But, they say the resurrection was spiritual. How can it be proven God didn't destroy the body and Jesus didn't rise as a spirit creature but in His body?

 

God bless you as well

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Permalink Reply by Charles Burwell on June 2, 2012 at 11:01am

Dear Feetbreeze

 

Perhaps you need to ask  them where they get the idea that the resurrection was 'spiritual'.  The bible states that Jesus ate food and was physically touched by the disciples after His resurrection.  He also cooked breakfast for them. 

Also in the garden He told Mary not to touch Him because He had not yet ascended. Why would He ask her not to touch Him if He was only a spirit?  How could she have even done that if He was only a spirit ?

 

These things are all mentioned in the gospels . I guess it boils down to the fact of whether or not we believe the disciples accounts or not.  I personnally will take the disciples accounts over speculation by those who have no ' proof' to the contrary .  

 

Also , I don't believe that we can prove or disprove the type of resurrection from a scientific standpoint.  W e must simply believe what the word of God says . The scripture is plain , at least to me , that the resurrection was physical and that He now 'physically sits at the right hand of the Father making intercession for us.

 

My computer time is running out . God bless you , my friend.

Just out of curiosity , are these people Jehovah's witnesses ?  It sounds like some of their teachings . As you know they put more confidence in the words of the Watchtower Society than they do the word of God.

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Permalink Reply by feet breath on June 2, 2012 at 11:06am

They say Jesus took on different bodies afterwards and when, as Michael,and right before Jesus went to heaven the body was disposed of  that Michael was currently using. It's confusing.

But, yeah that sums it up good. They're Jehovah's Witnesses. When scripture gets used such as Jesus saying He'd rise His body in three days(I think it's in gospel of John) they'll twist the meaning. He even said He wasn't a spirit but He had flesh and bone. That is twisted as well.

God bless

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