Why only 40%

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on May 5, 2012 at 4:38am

 Grazer,

 

If people have questions regarding evidence, my answer will be evidence based and the Bible is evidence. But the answer on why I'm a Christian; because Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose from the dead so I can have eternal life through him!

 

Absolutely!!!

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 5, 2012 at 4:54am

Stig,

I'm curious how much evidence do you need to believe in Holy Scripture? Do you just need a preponderance amount or an overwhelming amount? To say that we have an overwhelming amount of evidence that our Bible is authentic would be a correct statement. To say that we have an overwhelming amount of evidence that what is reported in Scripture is true would not be a correct statement. There is much that we must take by faith if we are to believe in Scripture. If the Gospel has to rest on secular evidence, it is in trouble. 

For instance: the Bible reports that death is a result of man's original sin. Do you have evidence to support that? I have known you at times (I don't think you are there now) that you even questioned whether there was an Adam let alone believe the stuff about the original sin. What has convinced you that Adam existed? What evidence do you now have that it was sin that brought death into our world?

Or, do you only believe in those parts that you do have some evidence for? You are trying to state a case for a position that is impossible to sustain. I think I am understanding your last statement:

The Bible is evidence though.

By that statement I think I am hearing you say that the Bible actually can stand on its own. In fact the Bible has to stand on its own because of the many claims that it makes such as I have just referenced. You might ask how one can know for sure that he will go to heaven after his death. How can he know? In order to know, he must believe. We really can't say that we have anyone that has come back from the dead and reported that to us. We do have some death experiences where some have reported coming back but those accounts just add to our suspense if we are truly looking for evidence.

How do you know that your sins are forgiven? You must believe that the Bible is absolutely true or its report of total forgiveness to them that believe would be lacking. Is there sin that I could commit that would take away God's love and my salvation? Jesus has instructed us to come to Him and he would carry our sin for us. If I don't have faith, I am in big trouble again for that very issue troubled me until my faith in His Word was confirmed.

We do have a little historical evidence of a person named Jesus existing in the first century, that He even rose from the dead (very little hear), but the purpose of Scripture is much more than just historical evidence. Most of what it speaks of cannot be authenticated by outside evidence. There is none. You either come to faith in His Word or you don't. No one can ever come to Him based on the evidence. If I am hearing correctly what I think you are saying - that you had to have evidence that the Bible is authentic - then you are safe. If you need evidence to believe in what it says and teaches, you are in trouble. Your relationship with God must be built on faith. Eventually, you must come to the conclusion that He has spoken to you and that what He has said is true.

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on May 5, 2012 at 6:03am

I needed evidence that the bible had not been altered over time.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 5, 2012 at 6:59am

It sounds to me as if you are saying that since it has been shown that the book we have now called the Bible is an authentic version of what was originally written, you have come to believe it what it is saying. Is this correct?

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on May 5, 2012 at 7:44am

To a point. We can be sure that what we are reading today is what was written back at the time. This says nothing about the truth of what was written however. This is where, for me, supporting evidence outside the Bible comes in. Now you probably won't find that for the OT but you can certainly find it for the NT

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 5, 2012 at 1:19pm

Stig,

I am trying to figure out what you are saying. Supporting evidence for the truth or just that the Bible we have today is an authentic version of the original? We do not have evidence that supports the teaching of Scripture. No other Book teaches the things taught in the Bible.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 4, 2012 at 7:10pm

Gary,

It is actually much worse than what you are reporting. George Barna, perhaps the most respected of Christian pollsters, is reporting that in America, only 9% have a Biblical worldview. When the worldview questions were narrowed to only those who claimed to be born-again, the percentage grew to 19% or less than one out of every five. This is a Biblical crisis. While virtually all believe parts of the Bible, very, very few actually believe there is absolute truth recorded in the Bible.

When it came to teenagers and young adults, the percentage was virtually nil. Less than one-half of one percent of this group had a Biblical worldview.

Why is faith in His Word at such a low level in a nation that used to be very committed to Scripture? Well, for one thing, for decades we have been attempting to convince our children (which most are now adults) that the Bible is not true. We are guilty of buying into a naturalistic philosophy totally dismissing plain teaching in Scripture about our origins, our past, and now even doubt about our future.

We have those running all over the place  claiming that the Bible is full of contradictions. Some will say that in areas of history, science and even some philosophy, the Bible is not trust-worthy.

I think for us to raise the percentage of Bible believers, we are going to have to change the way we present His Word. The Bible claims to be true.

2 Ti 3:16  All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, NIV

The authors claim that they are not writing from their own minds but that the Holy Spirit moved upon them to write the words they wrote.

The Bible is true. It is not for the faint of heart. The Bible is a journey of faith. For those who demand evidence, it might be a problem for it presents a history that only the One Who was there would know about. You either believe Him or you accept a more naturalistic view. Most have allowed their minds to be filled with at least a little bit of naturalism.

I am very sad about these statistics. But the data is true. It doesn't have to be this way. We could turn it around in one generation. I'm not sure if we have the heart.

Gary, you may be opening a can of worms as this is a very controversial area - one that I have problems keeping my mouth shut about.

I liked what Amanda said:

I think even true believers can go through a time of doubt where they might find a contradiction in Scripture but they won’t stay there because the Holy Spirit will guide them through it and help them “see” truth. So my answer is that a true believer will never continue in constant disbelief thinking that the bible is not authentic.

But, I wonder about this kind of idea. Most do not believe that the Bible is true as reported by Barna. If you would ask how many believe it is mostly true, the percentage would go way up. Is that good enough? I doubt we can solve that dilemma.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Schultz on May 4, 2012 at 7:34pm

I know I have found what I thought were contradictions. I didn't remain in doubt long. I knew the Word was true and found what looked to be a contradiction was my mistake not the Words. I do feel the Holy Spirit guides me when that happens and it doesn't take long to get back on tract.I think that's what Amanda was getting at.

It's sad that the numbers are even lower. I work with over a thousand kids and find there are some who have a strong faith. I would guess the percentage to be around 4 or 5 percent. That is only based on the number of teens that I see openly professing their faith. I guess I have always hoped that more are but are just quiet about their faith.

I do see the public education system leading kids away from God. Many teachings contradict the Bible. This probably leads to many folks thinking the Bible is not true.

One has to wonder if this is all part of the "end times".

You are right though....the Word is not for the faint of heart.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on May 4, 2012 at 8:11pm

Gary, I think it does matter what you are taught about the bible as a child. If you are told during formative years that the bible is just a history book or is anything else other than the authentic and inspired and inerrant Word of God, it can have a negative impact. I believe the Holy Spirit is powerful enough to defeat that negative influence. I was told as a child that the Bible was very Holy. I was not even allowed to touch its pages for fear I might tear one and that would be unforgivable. So the extreme can go both ways.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on May 4, 2012 at 8:12pm

Excellent and very important discussion, Gary.

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Permalink Reply by JB on May 4, 2012 at 11:32pm

 

I know there are a lot of sincere Christians that would love to hear that audible voice of God; they would say, if I could just hear God speak to me audibly, I would believe, but look at the following scripture.  

2 Peter 1:16-21 (KJV)
¹⁶ For we have not followed cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but were eyewitnesses of his majesty.
¹⁷ For he received from God the Father honour and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
¹⁸ And this voice which came from heaven we heard, when we were with him in the holy mount.
¹⁹ We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts:
²⁰ Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.
²¹ For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

Joe

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 5, 2012 at 8:20am

You know though Joe (didn't mean to rhyme all of that), I'm not sure people would even believe then. I'm about to head out so I don't have time to look the Scripture up but the Word says that people ask for signs & miracles & Jesus said they still wouldn't believe. There is something of this world that keeps them hanging on. I've often wondered what was so good about the things of this world that stops people from choosing a great Hope, then I remember from where I came. 

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