Why only 40%

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on May 3, 2012 at 6:12pm

Most people doubt because they think they need evidence in order to believe. Others point out seeming contradictions in it. Myself, I wonder if a true believer can doubt the absolute truths in Scripture? If so, how is he/she a true believer?

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Permalink Reply by Gary Schultz on May 4, 2012 at 4:04pm

I don't know....I remember not believing the Bible to be fully true, just a bunch of stories. After by birth I felt compelled to read it, then I began to realize the truth.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on May 4, 2012 at 5:01pm

You were born again and that made all the difference.

IMO, creation itself is enough "evidence" for people to be true believers in God. Romans 1:18-20
Also, IMO, a person can be born again with out ever reading Scriptures or even knowing that the bible exists but not without hearing the gospel. Romans 10:14-15 (Because Jesus is the Word. Many put scriptures above Jesus, and call them the Word and they are the Word of God but Jesus is the Living Word, IMO).

Once we are born again and we begin to read the Scriptures, the Holy Spirit is our Guide and His role is very vital in revelation activity--revealing God to us. 2 Peter 1:21 (Very vital even before we are born again)
The Holy Spirit brings conviction  John 16:8
Imparts the new birth John 3:5
Baptizes believers into the Body 1 Cor 12:13
Indwells 1 Cor 6:19
Restrains sin 2 Thessalonians 2:7
Equips believers for service Eph 5:18

Among other things ...

Jesus said: But the Counselor, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of everything I have said to you. John 14:26, NIV.

I think even true believers can go through a time of doubt where they might find a contradiction in Scripture but they won’t stay there because the Holy Spirit will guide them through it and help them “see” truth.

So my answer is that a true believer will never continue in constant disbelief thinking that the bible is not authentic.

We can always look at evidence. We can point out all the prophecies that were written and then were fulfilled many years later after the prophet had died. Christ fulfilled many at His birth. There is no other book like the bible. It is superior to any written work in any other nation. The Bible itself is evidence.

We also have the testimony of those who have believed it. They found it to be true.

Yet, no one will ever believe it without God enabling them to believe it. That is God working in us--when we are able to believe without needing evidence. We don't just pick it up and say "You know this is true" anymore than we just one day decide to get saved. God initiates the whole thing.

Then Jesus told him, "Because you have seen me, you have believed; blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed." John 20:29

I ask who is able to truly believe in the Living Word (Jesus) but not believe in the Written Word (Scriptures)?

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on May 4, 2012 at 5:20pm

For his Spirit joins with our spirit to affirm that we are God's children. Romans 8:16, NLT.

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on May 4, 2012 at 6:43am

Now that Tammy has set the stage for me, I guess I better deliver lol

There's many aspects to this as I see it. Part of the issue is that many Christians seem to have bought into the notion that faith is believing where there is no evidence.  This is not a faith a I recognize in the Bible (except for a couple of verses that I'm in discussions outside this site about) and for the sake of repeating what I've said previously, my argument for evidence based faith can be found here. Anyway, this has caused Christians to retreat from stating that the Bible is either the absolute word of God or God-breathed/inspired since they feel they don't have anything to support their argument. Nothing could be further from the truth as I will allude to later.

You cannot expect an atheist to believe the Bible is the word of God any more than you can expect me to believe the Qur'an is the word of Allah and whilst some atheists acknowledge the Bible as historically accurate (the gospel accounts are regarded as overall accurate by historians though they have some issues with certain events and dates but that's  another discussion) many see it as a religious book and that it's all made up on that basis.

When I was an atheist, I certainly didn't believe the Bible was the word of God and even when I started re-evaluating what I believed, I didn't approach the Bible as such. I regarded it as collection of prophecies, accounts, testimonies and poems. The one question that I had was "how could I trust what I was reading?" I wasn't sure God even existed which made the Bible man-made so it could have all been made up for all I knew. After investigations I concluded that it was accurate in terms of its history and that it hadn't been altered drastically over time (as many documents have) and in the process of translating it from one language to another.

In my view, to change how the Bible is regarded, we need to stop trying to convince the world that you don't need evidence to support a belief. If you didn't need evidence, you can believe anything and everything would be true. The dangers of this approach are huge and self-evident. There's also the massive problem on how the church is perceived in treatment of others as demonstrated in the same-sex marriage discussions.

Even me, with my desire for evidence, believe the scriptures are God inspired (even if the datings of some events maybe a little off - Kepler in the 1600's discovered an error in the Latin calendar and calculated that Jesus was in fact born in 4BC. He then wrote a treatise defending the accuracy of Lukes account) I know many regard the Bible as totally inerrant. I don't, I believe the contradictions, especially in the gospel accounts, add to the reliability as it shows they simply haven't been copied (if you were to dismiss an event on the basis of contradicting data on it, historians would have to dismiss pretty much everything) but I trust the Bible since the contradictions are for minor details (or secondary events as William Lane Craig puts it)

I didn't know any where near what I do now when I gave my life to Christ but I had enough to at least make a start. Christ has taken me on this journey of discovering that the evidence for him and the accuracy of the Bible is overwhelming. Yes, it's been bumpy but I have trusted him (as much as I am able) to get me through it which he has. Faith in that regard, is trusting in God when everything seems to be going wrong (it's very easy to trust when things are going right)

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on May 4, 2012 at 7:23am

LOL. Sorry

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on May 4, 2012 at 2:49pm

Studies have revealed that less that 2% of the people who come to faith come through apologetics, which includes evidence. There is nothing wrong with evidence, just it will not cause a person to believe in Jesus' sacrifice for them ... that is only possble through the work of the Holy Spirit.

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Permalink Reply by Gary Schultz on May 4, 2012 at 4:01pm

So...when a person comes to faith, I agree it's through the Holy Spirit, is it important that they believe the Bible to be true? If they do not, would that imply anything?

Can you be a Christian and not believe the Bible? Does it matter if they believe the New but not the Old Testaments.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on May 4, 2012 at 4:31pm

Gary,

 

They are convinced that it is true because of the conviction by the Holy Spirit. Even if one has "evidence" it is of little value to saving faith unless the Holy Spirit convicts (Convinces) the person. If our faith is based on "evidence" it is only head knowledge and if some interesting information comes down the pike that person will be rattled to the core. It has to be by the Holy Spirit and through the Holy Spirit in conjunction with the Word of God that saving faith comes.

 

As a side note. I have studied a lot of the historical stuff and read many books on the subject, but my faith is not based on that info. I believe in Jesus, His birth, death and resurrection, because of the conviction of God's Word and the Holy Spirit who reveals and confirms that truth to us in the spirit. For me, it really is that simple. We see millions of people come to faith around the world who have no access to the historical data. They are simply confronted with the Word and are transformed by the Holy Spirit because of Christ's work.

 

To your specific question. There has to be a trust in portions of the Word in order to be saved, because faith comes from hearing the word ... Do they understand or know the whole Bible? Of course not, but they have been impacted by the revealed Word and the work of the Spirit. I find it hard to believe that someone would be saved and not accept God's Word because it is the Word that reveals our need and the solution (Jesus). If we go on God's Word alone we would have to conclude that we must trust God's Word in order to be saved, even if they are only exposed to a small portion it has to be the convincing of the Holy Spirit that leads them to saving faith.

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Gary Schultz on May 4, 2012 at 7:41pm

"I find it hard to believe that someone would be saved and not accept God's Word because it is the Word that reveals our need and the solution (Jesus)."

Amen,I agree

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on May 5, 2012 at 1:26am

I don't disagree with the last bit but I still stand by my statement of needing evidence to support a belief. Some people need evidence before they can even contemplate giving themselves to Christ. I don't deny the work of the holy spirit, far from it, but I couldn't get to that place without having evidence the Bible was accurate at least. The Bible is evidence though.

If you don't need evidence, you can believe anything you want.

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on May 5, 2012 at 2:06am

I remember a conversation with a friend when I was an atheist. I said "this [the gospel] would be awesome and life changing if it's true. But I won't simply believe it on that basis alone" I was being asked to follow someone totally. You don't do that if you're not sure they are trust worthy and if you doubt they even exist. I had to be sure that the Bible was accurate. I don't see what is so unreasonable about that.

I have no idea why God waited until I had some evidence before revealing himself on that incredible night in my mates front room. Probably because he knew what I needed and what it would take. Apologetics is not about conversion, it's about providing answers. That teenager I gave the evidence for the resurrection to, won't be saved by that evidence but it might get him to think a bit more about God and who knows, God may then do what he does best. There was nothing more infuriating than not getting answers to questions.

People have genuine questions over the accuracy of the Bible, the resurrection, what Jesus said and did. I can't convert anyone  but I can at least attempt to answer those questions. Evidence didn't save me but it certainly set me on my way and continues to provide a support in face of an endless barrage of questions and criticism from an increasingly secular world.

As it says in 1 Peter 3:15
But in your hearts revere Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect,

If people have questions regarding evidence, my answer will be evidence based and the Bible is evidence. But the answer on why I'm a Christian; because Jesus Christ died for my sins and rose from the dead so I can have eternal life through him!

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