does bible consistently show that when people FIRST recieve Holy Spirit they will speak in tongues?

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 17, 2012 at 5:10am

Roy, I know of at least one person who prays in tongues but feels they have not received any second work of grace beforehand, such as the baptism of the Spirit. So it must be possible to have the gift of praying in tongues at least, if not speaking in them in the assembly, before one is filled with the Spirit. Therefore, it could be a precursor to the filling.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 17, 2012 at 5:44am

Amanda,

Two things:

1) The fact that this person did not feel any second work of grace does not mean that it did not happen to them. In fact, they probably do not understand the second work or accept it and were even surprised when they spoke in tongues (That is an assumption and I could very well be wrong about this person)

2) God is free to do what He wishes and is only constrained by who He is and His given Word. We know that an animal spoke and that a man came out o the tomb after being dead for four days. Do all animals speak or dead men come out of the tomb after four days? These two instances where used of God for a purpose.

 

One of the problems we have as people is that too often we try to figure God out to the last letter and put Him in a box. We will never understand all the ways of God, and we must remember that He works in so many different ways that there may be a norm, but there is always room for the exception.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 17, 2012 at 6:33am

LT,

In your first point, you appear to be saying that the gift can only come with the filling of the Spirit, or second work of grace, but never without it. So your last paragraph is sort of making you guilty, too, as there is "always room for the exception." So maybe it is possible that the person has the gift but not the filling. Yet. But with continuing to pray in tongues, perhaps as a precursor--a thing that goes before and indicates the approach of--the person will become built up enough in the spirit to receive the baptism? I don't know. It's like everyone has a private interpretation when it comes to the Bible :'(

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 17, 2012 at 7:50am

Amanda,

 

There is no inconsistency here when we understand God is not bound to work "only in one way." There is the normal operation of the gift as seen in Scripture. God is also able to work in other ways. These are the exception. Look in the OT where God spoke to Abimelech in a dream even though he was not a believer in God. Is this the norm or the exception and can God actually work this way too if He chooses.

 

You will never get God pinned down to a A-B-C list. There will always be the sub-point, or exception, as the sovereign God works with and on His creation. We also now that He will never act out of character nor will He break His Word. Our finite minds will never fully understand His mind in this life. We aspire which is good, but in the end we will not get all the answers in this life.

 

 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 17, 2012 at 7:53am

Amanda,

I answered another of your posts but have no idea where it went or where this will go. I am referring to your comment that everyone has their own interpretation followed by a frowny face.

I think just about everyone on this site agrees on just about everything. There are always exceptions. There are just a few areas where there is disagreement. However, you have a very inquisitive mind and want to know the minute details of many, many issues. That is why you get into areas that have differences of opinions. Now, I have no idea where this post will go when I hit "add reply." Could someone start a new thread?

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 17, 2012 at 9:04am

LT, I do see your point. You said, God is not bound to work "only in one way." Yet, many try to say God is bound. In the OT people were not filled with the Spirit--before Pentecost--and yet we find some beautiful, heartfelt, spiritual prayers in those awesome pages. How can we say that praying in the Spirit is only possible when one has the gift of tongues?

 

Roy, I am very inquisitive ... was born that way. However, to your question: Are you one of those people that has to know everything right now? haha

The answer is: Not always. :)

 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 17, 2012 at 9:42am

The Spirit of God was present and active in the OT. He came upon people and empowered them. The change in the NT is that "we are changed" and He takes up permenant residence in us.

 

David prayed that God would not take His Spirit from Him. John the Baptist was filled with the Spirit at birth, yet there is still a sealing that occurs only through the New Birth.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 17, 2012 at 9:52am

LT, then are you saying we cannot pray in the Spirit without the gift of tongues or that we can because OT people empowered by the Spirit did not have the gift of tongues but prayed in the Spirit nonetheless? They received the filling but not the sealing.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 16, 2012 at 7:40pm

The way Joe worded it was: I am not one of those that thinks that a person has to speak in tongues to be filled with the Holy Ghost

Is he saying one does not have to speak in tongues first to be filled with the Holy Ghost, or is he saying speaking in tongues is not always accompanied with being filled with the Holy Ghost?--many teach that it is a sign of being filled with the Holy Ghost and one will speak in tongues if filled with the Spirit.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 17, 2012 at 7:59am

I am saying "amen" to LT's post just above about not having all the answers in this life. Also, we cannot pin God down to an ABC list. You could study Acts for the rest of your life and still not come up with all the answers how God works through His church. While I do believe we have plenty to not get into error, there is still room for God to do whatever He wants. He will never go against His Word but will sometimes go against what we thought was His Word. At least that is the way it has been in my life.

Permalink Reply by JB on April 16, 2012 at 7:45pm

Thanks Roy, I guess!

However I did tell Moses there would be times like this, and He even agreed with me. Ha, ha

But I really didn’t think I would have to re-iterate my position on an open forum so many times. I also didn’t think I was speaking so far out of orthodoxy that some couldn’t comprehend without a deeper study of biblical history. Ha again,

On a more serious note though, I have been considering holding off on my responses, because it seems I am confusing more than edifying, and regardless of others opinions, that is not my intentions for responding here. Just haven’t made that decision for sure yet.

But thanks again for helping me out just a little.

You know I love you Brother.

You too Amanda,

God Bless

Joe

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 16, 2012 at 8:13pm

Joe, you are greatly loved and I am just giving you a hard time about your age. I must admit that I think you are amazing. If God leaves me around as long as He has you, I will be overly grateful. How old are you and how many hours did you put in today? I think you are a very blessed person. You are certainly doing something very right. I learned to appreciate you some 24 years ago when you were working with those Thorpe brothers. haha.

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