speaking in tongues

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 14, 2012 at 7:15pm

In the same way, the Spirit helps us in our weakness. We do not know what we ought to pray for, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groans that words cannot express. Romans 8:26

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Permalink Reply by JB on April 15, 2012 at 1:11am

Proverbs 20:27 (KJV)
²⁷ The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 15, 2012 at 2:17pm

Raul,

I totally agree. The reason I posted this reply was to support you & your reply.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 16, 2012 at 7:21pm

Raul, sorry for the confusion. I misread that verse. I deleted that reply. My bad.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 15, 2012 at 7:21am

Raul,

Have you studied that verse carefully? You are not interpreting as it was originally written. The same word is used in verses 4, 13,14,19, 26, and 27. The word correctly interpreted means "another language." It is not a language that man can understand. In verse 14, Paul says that "If I pray in a tongue, my mind is unfruitful." In other words, I do not understand what I am saying since I am speaking in a language that I do not understand. My spirit is praying to God. My mind is unfruitful.

The problem I see, here, Raul, is that these verses listed do not agree with your theology and so you are changing the meaning to adjust to what you believe. I do not want to debate you but the meaning of these verses are very clear as to what Paul is saying. He goes on to say in the same meaning of the word, "16 If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand  say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying?"

When a person is praying, singing, speaking or praising God in the Spirit, those who are around do not understand what the speaker is saying since it is a language they do not understand. That is the reason for the entire Passage. Paul is encouraging the people to speak in public in a language that everyone can understand so that all the hearers can be blessed as well. In the instance of the tongue, only God understands the speaker and He would prefer that all be blessed rather than just Him. Does this make sense?

He concludes in this Passage that everything should be done in order and while he has been encouraging us to speak publicly in a language that the others understand, we should not forbid the speaking in a language that others cannot understand. Now, I interpret what I think at this point: I think the foreign tongue to the hearers should be used very limited. On special occasions God would have a use for the experience. I'm really not sure why He would use this method but He obviously has left room for Him to do so, here.

In summary, speaking in a tongue or tongues would mean another language or languages. You are telling many of these good people here that they are speaking to demons rather than God. I encourage you not to do that. :)

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 16, 2012 at 3:23pm

Raul,

 

Your assessment as heartfelt as it is is unfortunately in error about the gift itself and what it is. You are readig into the Scripture rather than drawing out. The text in 1 Corinthians is given to the church body regarding worship. Paul never negates speaking in tongues, but simply puts it in its place. The following verses from 1 Corinthians 14 speak to the use of tongue(s) and is speaking to the church:

 

1Co_14:2 For one who speaks in a tongue speaks not to men but to God; for no one understands him, but he utters mysteries in the Spirit.

This verse clearly speaks of one speaking to God in a tongue that man does not understand.

 

1Co_14:4 The one who speaks in a tongue builds up himself, but the one who prophesies builds up the church.

Here Paul evaluates the effect of two different gifts. Both are gifts and neither bad.

And ...

1Co_14:14 For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays but my mind is unfruitful.

1Co_14:19 Nevertheless, in church I would rather speak five words with my mind in order to instruct others, than ten thousand words in a tongue.

1Co_14:26 What then, brothers? When you come together, each one has a hymn, a lesson, a revelation, a tongue, or an interpretation. Let all things be done for building up.

1Co_14:27 If any speak in a tongue, let there be only two or at most three, and each in turn, and let someone interpret.

 

You are making some assumptions, I assume based on experience. In your position you are discounting all of us who speak in tongues as being fooled and wrong. I reject that concept based on my understanding of the Word, evidence around the world and personal experience. Remember, this topic is not about the abuses, but the true gift itself.

 

Also, in Acts 2 we know one thing and are left with a conclusion on another. We know that the hearers heard the apostles in their own language, that is fact. What we do not know is what language they were speaking. Think about this. If between 11 to 120 spoke at the same time in different languages you would then hear gibberish like in a crowded restaurant, and there most often people are speaking the same language. For all present to hear with clarity the Word in their own language leads to a conclusion that God caused them to hear in their own language.

 

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 16, 2012 at 7:42pm

Raul,

 

I am addressing what you believe and did not judge you personally, but am addressing this portion of your belief system. I see it as in error. Yes, there are varied beliefs, but that does not mean that they are left unchallenged, especially when they do not align with the Word as in this case. Also, if you knew it was going to be controversial did you not expect others (and in this case me) not to challenge it?

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 16, 2012 at 3:32pm

Raul,

Would you be offended if I asked you what church you were a member of? I hope it does not. When you say that 1Cor 14:2 should be interpreted as "speaking to a god," rather than "to God." I am not certain but I doubt that there are any churches that I know of that would agree with your interpretation. Is there a reputable Bible translation that would agree? I have had two years of Greek in college but in no way would consider myself a Greek scholar. I still depend on those many different translations to get an understanding of the original meaning of the text. I don't know of one reputable translation that would agree with you. Please give us the authority that you have to make such a statement.

Thanks.

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Permalink Reply by Carla on April 16, 2012 at 8:51am

Lee,

 

Who is Jesus to you?

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Permalink Reply by Carla on April 16, 2012 at 9:52am

Do you believe that He is also the Son of Man, as well as the Son of God?

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 16, 2012 at 4:03pm

Great question, Carla.

Many deny His divinity and teach His humanity; others focus on His divinity and deny His humanity. Many cults have formed because His two natures have been improperly understood but if we don’t understand His two natures at least to a certain degree, although this is mysterious, we will have trouble correctly understanding other doctrines about Him, too, and about the Body--the Church.

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Permalink Reply by RoyW on April 16, 2012 at 4:10pm

Tammy,

Paul is not accusing the Corinthians of a counterfeit gift when it came to the gift of tongues. He was simply giving them instruction on the correct use of the gift. I think you have some prejudice against the gift due to maybe an experience or experiences that you have had. I personally have had some bad experiences with the charismatics - to the point I walked away - but I realized the Bible does not condemn the spiritual gifts but encourages their use. Please read carefully what Paul is saying:

1 Co 14:1-2  Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2 For anyone who speaks in a tongue  does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. NIV

There is no discouragement here to not seek, have or to function in the gifts of the Spirit. He says to eagerly desire spiritual gifts. He says that he who speaks in a tongue speaks to God. How can that be a bad thing? He is not saying anywhere that the use of these spiritual gifts has anything to do with pagan worship. True, the Corinthian church was full of problems. Sometimes the gifts are misused. I have seen different ones use gifts to profit. I have seen people slain, scream, shake, jerk, etc. I saw so many things that were not done decently and in order I wanted to scream myself. However, the misuse simply means the users need to be instructed. He is not saying to get rid of the function of these gifts. I am not disagreeing with your post except when it appears you are saying that the gifts of the Spirit in the Corinthian church were not of God.

What say you? If you insist that these gifts were of Satan, please show me where in Scripture that Paul indicates this. I kind of feel that you are the one compromising here. I think your author is misinterpreting 1Cor 12:1-3 based on preference rather than truth. :)

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