All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Is The Church Still Carnal?
NOTE: I appologize for entering what is probably blog material here in discussion, in the past. Here is something you can sink your theological teeth into:
Is The Church Still Carnal?
1 Corinthians 3 (NIV)
1 Brothers, I could not address you as spiritual but as worldly-mere infants in Christ.
2 I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.
3 You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere men?
Paul states that he could not address the people as spiritual, that he had to address them as worldly, or carnal, whom he described as "infants in Christ"
He goes on to say that he could not give them solid food, but had to give them milk as babies. The fact that he could not give them solid food is an indicator of their infancy in Christ. Only MATURE believers could handle solid food.
So what is the indicator of their lack of growth and maturity? It is in the next verse: He states that they are STILL worldly, and the evidence of that is that there is jealousy, and quarreling among them. In the KJ version he says there is envying, and strife, and divisions.
I want to ask you a question: Look around in the church today - Is there not still jealousy, quarreling, strife and division? Not only is it there, but it is epidemic.
So, Paul is telling them that they are not acting like Christ, but instead, like mere men. Paul understood that men who are worldly may not understand or even accept issues of a spiritual nature.
In 1 Corinthians 2 he states: (NIV)
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
He is saying that the man without the Spirit does NOT accept things that come from the spirit. By "without the spirit" he doesn't mean that the Holy Spirit is not present. He means that those particular people can not hear the Holy Spirit because they are listening to their flesh. They have not opened up their spiritual ears. He goes on to say that issues of a spiritual nature (that go beyond their realm of knowledge) are foolishness to those people.
The reason for that is in the previous verse: "This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words." People who are spiritual receive revelation that goes beyond human knowledge and teaching. That even includes the written word. Natural or carnal believers will not accept anything that goes beyond the written word. They are in a theological bubble, with God on the outside.
The next verse describes an advantage that comes from the Holy Spirit, to those who are spiritual. "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:" This is because of two factors. Man receives great wisdom from the Holy Spirit. And a spiritually mature believer will share the nature of God.
He is saying that the wisdom that man receives from the Holy Spirit allows him to judge all things, and because of his closeness to God, he will not be subject to any man's judgment.
Then he goes on, in the next verse to say why: "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."
This is incredible! He is saying that no man can instruct the spiritual believer, because the spiritual believer has the MIND OF CHRIST.
How many believers have to ACT like Christ when they go out, but are different at home? Spiritual believers do not have to act like Christ, because they ARE like Christ, even possessing his mind (wisdom and nature)
Based on these scriptures, I believe that the Christian church is a body of carnal believers, that MOST of them are still carnal. Paul said: "You are still worldly." He didn't have a problem that they were carnal. His problem was that all that time passed and they were STILL carnal.
So, why is the church STILL carnal? Here is the problem. Paul stopped short of explaining to them (at least in what is written) how to become spiritual. That is why the church has not heeded this scripture and is still carnal. Oh, how to become spiritual is in the Bible. It is all over the Bible. But no where in the Bible is there a scripture that states: "This is how you become spiritual….."
People, there is jealousy, envy, strife and separation all around in the church. That means that many are still carnal. It is not their fault. Most preachers don't know how to teach spiritual growth. It is time to grow beyond carnality, and get where God wants us to be. Spiritual growth does not come from studying scripture. It comes from a spiritual one on one relationship with God where he is able to speak new revelation into our spiritual ears. It comes from giving Him every hour of every day and spending every day with God in your heart and on your mind. It comes from putting him first above everything else and allowing him to really take over your life. That means total self-giving - surrender. It comes from totally trusting Him with your very lives. It comes from loving all you come in contact with, not just in word, but in deed - a life of kindness with a loving heart.
It means that you have to open your heart and mind. God is going to reveal things to you, about himself, that are not written. You must not be bound by the boundaries of scripture. I say “boundaries of scripture” because you can only grow so much thru scripture. There are people who have mastered scripture, yet spend their entire lives searching for more. They have grown theologically fat, but remain spiritually infantile. As carnal believers, they can never receive everything God has for them.
It's time to wake up and grow, church. A mature church would be united with two purposes - loving God and serving each other. A mature church would not have denominations and multiple doctrines. A mature church would be one united Body of Believers.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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This is amazing. In one article you have accused Paul of falling short in His written teaching that is inspired by the Holy Spirit, called the Bible insufficient, accused the Bride of Christ of being carnal. Oh, and that most preachers have no clue as to how to be undershepherds.
You have superceded the Word of God by proclaiming that God will give new revelation to teach us beyond the given Word and in so doing will find that that method will divide the church even more so instead of uniting her.
One cannot live on the Word only or the Spirit only. They cannot be separated. They are united in purpose and message. To attempt to lay the Word aside or render it as incomplete is dangerous.
Here is a great example. On this issue we disagree. Thus, one of us is wrong ... which one do you suppose is wrong?
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Permalink Reply by Jimmy West on
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Oh, Since you opened that can, I absolutely know it is you who are wrong, and my proof is right here:
1 Corinthians 2
14But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are
foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.This scripture is describing you.
And by the way, in your first paragraph, you are putting words in my mouth which I did not say. NICE JOB LT!
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Hahaha ... I would have never guessed that is what you were going to say ....
You are free to have your opinion of me. I can live with that.
Regarding your article, that is exactly what you said.
- Paul stopped short of explaining to them (at least in what is written) how to become spiritual.
---You are proclaiming that the written Word is incomplete and insufficient.
- Most preachers don't know how to teach spiritual growth.
--- Without knowing the vast majority of preachers who love and teach Jesus you have labeled them.
- Spiritual growth does not come from studying scripture. It comes from a spiritual one on one relationship with God where he is able to speak new revelation into our spiritual ears.
--- Any growth that does not include the Scripture is dangerous. God's Spirit will never contradict the written Word, nor go beyond its meaning in new revelation.
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Yes the Bible IS incomplete. What does it say about the 3 known races of early man prior to Adam? What does it say about ETs Extra Terrestral aliens? Does it tell us all about Melchizedek? Does it really tell us what the Nephilim was? Does it describe the childhood of Jesus? Does it explain the relationship between Jesus and Mary Magdalene?
It doesn't tell us any of this yet, thru the Spirit, I have all these answers.
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The Bible is complete and fulfills its purpose everyday. For everyone that says God has given them the answer to these questions that God chose to not reveal in His completed Word there are hundreds who will say that they have the answer and that God gave the answer to them. The funny thing about that is that the 100 who proclaim new revelation will not agree with each other .... go figure, and they didn't even have to belong to a denomination to get it wrong. Is God confused or does man assume to have new words where no new knowledge need be given. I trust the Word of God over man and men who proclaim God has given them that new word.
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You are correct that there are hundreds who will say they have the answers. I can't deny that. But, I am the one.
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Bible Worship is an epidemic in the church.
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Not worship, trust!!! There is also an epidemic called liberalism that seeks to ignore the Word or change it and Latter Day Rain who seek to find new words.
God's Word is sufficient when coupled with His Holy Spirit. Not one or the other, but both.
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You are correct but 90% of the Christian church can not even hear the Holy Spirit because they are still carnal. The written word is all they have and their growth is limited to what they read. They will remain spiritually dead simply because they believe they are already spiritual.
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Your estimation is a guess. You also understimate the power of the Word in the salvation process (Romans 1:26 and 10:17). Can a person retard their spiritual growth in this life? Yes ... that does not mean that they are spiritually dead once they are born again. There are numerous categories of people in the saved and in the lost category.
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Permalink Reply by JB on
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Lt,
I know you and others disagree with me on my “so-called theology“, but what Jimmy is describing is the “New Creation” that I have on several occasions, on this forum and others tried to get across, but couldn’t explain it properly, I have said before that Jesus, represented or better yet, was “The New Creation” That He was, what we are to be/or become, Scripture graphically supports this, just to name a few, 2Cor.3:18, 2Cor.4, especially 6-13, Look at Jo.1:16, there are many, many others, but to get the truth or the meaning of them, must come through revelation by the Spirit.
Too many times we read scripture based on our understanding taught us in Sunday school as a child, instilling a tradition that is hard to overcome.
(I don’t know if this is true or not; but I heard a long time ago, that the Catholic’s say that if they can teach a child before he is 12 years old, he will be a Catholic the rest of his life.)
To learn truth, we must be willing and able to let go of the old.
The Word is Spirit and Life. Thy Word is Truth. Jo.17:17, And regardless of what they say, Our brain has no capacity to think independent of sense evidences.
Seeing then that man’s reasoning faculties are utterly dependent upon the senses, we can never glean truth from God’s Word apart from Spiritual revelation. I still maintain, that these metaphysical religions that are born of the senses, really has no appeal to a man that has found reality, a reality that has come through the Word of God, but revealed by the Spirit. This is the reason He says that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him…... This is why intellectuals have such a hard time understanding the Word. Usually all they get is the do’s and don’ts, Religion!!!!!! A self righteousness based on keeping the law. But Christ is the end of the law for righteousness, to them that believe. Rom.10.
“Christ in you” where the laws of God are written, not on paper.
So if we have the mind of Christ and nature of God, what need do we have for a written law?
Joe
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