Joel Osteen Sermon!

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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on December 27, 2011 at 12:01pm

Wow I wasn't sure where to jump in here as many have made good points. I'd like to share how I view Joel Osteen, but will preface my remarks by saying that this is not a critique of Joel per say- it will be very general in nature of the Church and tv preacherss.  I have viewed Joel' program on a a number of occasions, but he doesn't hold my attention for long. He always starts off with a funny, clean joke that believers can relate to. The jokes are very entertaining. The reason his sermons don't hold my attention is because whereas there is a measure of truth in what he is saying, I feel he doesn't balance it out with the other sides of an issue. His is a posiive gospel that focuses on always being sweet and positive like that will solve everything, but I don't think that is reality. Yes, it is very important to have good attitudes and to look for the good in ppl and so forth. But just being sweet and loving is not the full answer. 

Just the other night, I had fallen asleep while watching the Christian channel Joel comes on and I awakened to his program. He was preaching yet another version of what some would call "the love walk". He was saying how we should not judge ppl but should just love them as we never know how they were raised and what they may still be dealing with. He explained that he came from a loving Christian family and was very supported in life.  I actually had attended some services at Joel's dad's church before he died and Joel subsequently followed in his father's footsteps. His dad was the typical fatherly pastor and his mother seemed like  a sweet pastor's wife. But not unlike most churchs I have been to, I don't recall anything particulary significant about the church. I think it was non-denominational and it was a popular church in that area.  Joel preaches a similar gospel to the one his dad taught- a loving attitude and a little healing. What Joel preaches is perfectly right in some respects, but the question I always have in my mind is, what did Joel's dad's church do to minister to ppl?. And what does Joels empire do to minister to ppl?

Yes, Joel preaches one aspect of the gospel that is correct and important for us to know. But take the sermon I heard him preach the other  night, is it logical to be loving and nice to everyone without any other steps for what to do if someone in our family or at work etc acts ungodly towards us and is coming against our lives to hinder us? Whether its puposely or the person is out of his mind, do we just give him a lollipop and go into denial about how he is acting and just say oh God will handle him?! Because that's what Joel's sermon seemed to say to me the other night.

Also, he was talking to a huge civic center full of ppl as if they were all believers, therefor they didn't have any big issues in their lives or with those they knew, so they could all just tip toe through the tulips and hand out lollipops. Now of course I know he was speaking about Christian love and how we should always be loving. But as nice and correct as that is, I don't feel he gives the other side of the story that we are in a spiritual warfare and what to do when ppl seriously cross over our boundary lines and/or seek to harm us or neglect their part in a relationship causing us problems.

The way I look at it is, all churches teach a measure of truth and a measure of falsity or compromise. The Bible calls it the traditions of men. It is very rare that I have been to a church or have seen a tv preacher who is preaching what I call The True Gospel- the Word in balance. Ppl seem to like sermons that tickle their ears. I once saw Joel and his wife on the Larry King live program. Larry asked him a specific question re a subject that any true believer could of easily answered taking a stand for Christ, yet Joel backpeddled and gave a really lame reply about how he didn't know too much about that subject. Maybe some of you recall the incident. Like I said I have forgotten the issue at hand but I recall it reached the attention of the Church at large that Joel had evaded the question and had been a poor ambassador for Christ and defender of the Faith when he had a golden opportunity. But I remember thinking at the time, maybe Joel really didn't know a good answer to reply as he seems to be so stuck on a one-sided gospel that he might not of had the knowledge and wisdom to know what to reply. It just seemed very odd, as like I said, most any true believer could of answered Larry's question which was very basic to the faith.

The point that I am making is, the Gospel is a lot of things. On one had we are to stand by faith for things God has impressed on our spirit that we are to have. But then to listen to some preachers its all about prosperity and nothing else and we should never suffer. Obviously, there is a balance, and this is what I'm arguing that I feel I rarely see that balance on Christian tv or in churches I have been to. I think it is not until one has known the Lord for awhile and is a true believer that he becomes seasoned in the Word and can discern what is fake from what is real as far as what the churches and tv preachers advocate.  Most of the preaching I hear sounds like gimmick preaching rather then the real thing. I hate to sound negative, but I don't believe that most of what I hear is balanced and from a true heart for God. What I discern is, there is a lot of falsity going on and only a small speckling of true believers.

Permalink Reply by forgiven on December 26, 2011 at 11:22am

I believe 'expectation' is even 'scriptural'.....however, I do not usually apply it to material things.  (I should)  I think that we certainly should pray expecting, or do not bother praying.  I think that if we pray for:  those things of the kingdom....the things God already has anointed, we should certainly pray in expectation.

   Expectation is believing.  

On a lighter side, I heard about someplace that was expiencing a drought.  The pastor set a time the next morning for everyone to come together to pray for God to send rain.  When the morning came, the Pastor asked if everyone believed God would bring the rain....they said yes.  He then asked why nobody had brought an umbrella.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 27, 2011 at 6:37pm

Char, what if God asks you to have only more of the same? Would you still love Him and serve Him and accept it?

Permalink Reply by Amanda on December 27, 2011 at 5:59pm

That's generally what happens--a person's faith is denigrated--and very especially if they are going through a dark time and unable to express that joy. Criticize unfairly; disparage. It makes a person begin to doubt all over again. Instead of vacillating between assurance and doubt, it is better IMO to just walk away from God and the faith. Maybe if  the person survives the dark time, the person can begin again with God sometime later, if God permits it. It's hard to take both though--the dark time and the denigration of one'e faith by those feeling more blessed in their walks.

Permalink Reply by Rose Bentley on December 28, 2011 at 3:36pm

I believe every believer, if not now, has in the past, or will in the future, questions their faith in God or questions God.

I do not believe you can if you are truly a born again believe just walk away from God, because he pursues us. God goes looking for us, like the lost coin, the lost sheep and many other parables. 

What I found to be true in my walk, is that when I start to believe the enemies lies and listen more to negative feedback and start comparing my walk with other believers, I become discouraged and lose heart. Be of good courage my sister Amanda, God loves you and wants you trust him regardless if you feel like it. I found for myself that when I am discouaged I go to the praise psalms and read them. I state out loud, regardless of what I am feeling it can't nullify God's faithfulness to me. Romans 3:1-3 He is faithful regardless of our faithfulness, because he can't forsake himself, if he is in you.

Also, just because someone is feeling more blessed doesn't mean they may not be going through trials of many types.  Stay the course and look up!!!

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 28, 2011 at 9:11pm

Saved and Grateful,

We do not judge the heart of another person, but we do judge the message being presented by teachers. If it does not align with Scripture or if it twists Scripture then that teaching needs to be exposed. If we did not do this how could we recognize who are the false teachers and false prophets?

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 29, 2011 at 5:49am

Another possibility, which has been shown true in some other ministries that have fallen over the  years, is that success is more important than truth.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 28, 2011 at 9:47pm

Part of the answer is found in the fact that the Word will not return void. The man uses some Scripture and presents a Jesus to those listening to him. As long as there is a grain of truth God can use that grain, but that does not justify the teacher. For the Word is not a respecter of persons, but truth itself. The Word is about God and not a man.

 

All pastors, including myself, will make mistakes, but there is a difference between making a mistake and presenting a base theology that you stand on as a platform that is in error. 

 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on December 29, 2011 at 5:50am

Blessings Michelle and Saved and Grateful.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by RoyW on December 28, 2011 at 6:49pm

I also believe God will not test you beyond what you can endure. However, we have to remember that sometimes a decision for Christ meant certain death. Whatever God has for you, He will give you the grace to endure it. We are all facing riches beyond our wildest imaginations. Our Father owns this entire universe and whatever else is out there. The spiritual dimension undoubtedly has far more wealth than does this physical universe. Yet, in this world we are going to have trials and tribulation. The promise we have is peace, love, joy, and all the wonders of knowing Him and knowing all our sins are forgiven. We have the promise of eternal life. We have peace with God. We are all blessed beyond measure. I think we are emphasizing the wrong things when we begin to focus on the earthly. I hear prosperity preachers trying to make a case that Jesus was wealthy in this world. I just don't think you can make a case for that. He WILL meet all our needs according to His riches in glory. He has promised us so much. Preach to me the real story of Jesus.

Permalink Reply by Rose Bentley on December 27, 2011 at 8:17pm

I believe God is a giving God! Look, he gave himself to use in the form of a child so we could have a personal relationship with him. I believe that "good things" are so often seen as material things, that is all well and good, but how much better to expect God to stay faithful to his word, because he can't lie and wants to do " ...immeasurably more than we ask or imagine..." of him doing in our situations. (Eph 3:20)  

I believe it is healthy to have a more positive expectation of Jesus answering our prayers than a negative and not expecting only what we get. Isn't expecting in a way like faith, both unseen. It takes faith to expect God to do what he says in his word he will do. I believe with that said, what we expect should always line up with the word of God. I love expecting a miracle of a healing, expecting to see a changed life by someone coming to Christ, and expecting God will do more than even I expect in our situations or day.  Of course, always for his honor and glory!

Our faith must be exercised and used for it to increase. (Heb 11:1 & Eph 6:16) 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on December 28, 2011 at 5:26am

Following is an example of one of Christ's promises:

Matt 24:9-14

9 "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.
NIV

Does the prosperity gospel prepare people for a time that might be coming in our lifetime? The disciples did face a time like this. Christians in the past have faced similar times. Jesus also said:

John 16:33  "I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."  NIV

Jesus did not come proclaiming to us that life was going to be easy, rich or without some really big problems. What He did promise was that He would help us get through those times. We live in such a different culture than did the Christians during the time of the writing of the New Testament that it is very difficult for us to relate to them. The Gospel teaches that you may have to leave everything you have and everyone you know to follow Him. I do not believe that we are promised a life of riches, good health and easy times. Are You really ready to follow Him? I think if the true Gospel were preached, our mega churches might not be so mega. But, I am just one guy with an opinion of what Jesus came to teach. Our sin is forgiven but salvation begins a life full of struggles as we seek to overcome our sinful condition. He does not take away all those desires but commands that we overcome them. Life can be very difficult. But do not fear, He has overcome the world and will be with us through our personal journeys.

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