All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others

What does Roman 12:2 mean to you?

When I became a born again Christian, the Holy Spirit renewed my spirit. However, I need to change the way I think. God didn’t automatically give me love for everyone. I didn’t receive automatically the ability to stay at peace and not get angry. I didn’t automatically quit smoking. I didn’t automatically stop lusting for material things. I had to work on my own mind to receive these things. Therefore, it is my opinion that we all need to examine ourselves for what is in our minds that shouldn’t be there and change the way we think.

The Holy Spirit did, however, change my spirit. I am perfect and righteous in the sight of God. Yet I still have a ways to go. I need to work on the sins I still commit. I need to turn my mind from anything that does not please God.

I am interesting in hearing how others handle this verse and what it means to you.

0 members like this

▶ Reply to This

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 2, 2011 at 5:46pm

If I understand you correctly, you are saying when God changes the mind we can then begin to change our choices. The one who steals will steal no more, etc... So our minds are renewed when we are born again and at the same time our spirit and our heart is regenerated. The only thing that awaits being changed is the body. Only those who have experienced this change of mind could even want to know God, because no one seeks God.

In my case, I didn't wake up one morning and decide today I will believe in God. God opened my heart, and you are saying that equates with the mind being changed or renewed by God, right? Because such belief is only possible after God has given us the mind of Christ. But where does the liberty to choose Him or to choose to remain in darkness come in?
I think we've had this conversation before, haven't we? I am remembering bits and pieces of it. If that's the case I apologize for rehashing it and I guess I never fully understood what you meant.
Is it possible to have the mind changed and not be born again? The scriptures mention depraved minds or reprobates. Are they ones who have been enabled to see truth, and yet they chose darkness and to remain in their evil deeds so God has seared them and they are no longer influenced by God?

This cannot happen after someone has been born again because God does not reject us for sinning. We all have sins and need prayers.

Obviously we are to take part in being transformed...somehow...someway...and it does seem the renewal of our mind is ongoing...I guess.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 2, 2011 at 6:36pm

Amanda,

I just have one other big question (and a few small ones). Since the renewing of the mind is all a work of God, why does Romans 12:2 sound like a command to us and how do we obey it? By controlling our thoughts? Taking them captive? What is our part in it and is it God and us working together?
“And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.” (KJV). Notice that it does not really intimate that we renew our minds. Read the underlined section. It says “be ye transformed by …” When our minds are renewed, we are being brought into alignment with God. It also says “renewing”, not made new. The use of “re” tells us that Paul is talking to someone who has been brought from death to life. This all ties into Romans 8.

Our minds are made new at salvation and then begins the growth process, but the mind is the true spiritual battlefield. The flesh and spirit war over control of the mind. Our minds get beat up and wore down and thus need renewing, or another way of saying it may be refueling. This is why we need to be in God’s Word, praying and seeking to live in alignment with God. The Holy Spirit does the work in us as we follow God’s chosen path for the life of man.

No one wakes up and chooses God. God has to awaken the dead (spiritually) person who was incapable of choosing God before this. He chases after us. The Father draws us to the Son and the Son reveals the Father. Let’s go back to Romans 8 again. Our Spirit is the essence of who we are and it is where the Holy Spirit brings conviction, but it is the mind that makes choices in our lives and then puts them into action. We are to be led by the Holy Spirit.

The liberty to choose Him or remain in darkness relates to salvation and is presented to us through the process of repentance (change of mind). Those who are awakened spiritually can choose God or reject Him (of course my Calvinist friends will disagree here). Once we are saved it is a matter of surrendering daily or rebelling against Father God’s will for our lives.

I think we've had this conversation before, haven't we? I am remembering bits and pieces of it. If that's the case I apologize for rehashing it and I guess I never fully understood what you meant.

We have, but that is OK.

Is it possible to have the mind changed and not be born again? The scriptures mention depraved minds or reprobates. Are they ones who have been enabled to see truth, and yet they chose darkness and to remain in their evil deeds so God has seared them and they are no longer influenced by God?

I believe in the repentance process that leads to the moment of decision that the mind is enlightened. I believe the true transformation takes place at salvation.

This cannot happen after someone has been born again because God does not reject us for sinning. We all have sins and need prayers.

God will not reject us, but because He loves us He may discipline us for our good. This discipline is always corrective and not punitive.

Obviously we are to take part in being transformed ... somehow ... someway ... and it does seem the renewal of our mind is ongoing ... I guess.

Yes, in that we can make the selection regarding what we feed the mind and regarding the activities we participate in. God honors reading His Word, prayer and obedience. These things open the door, so-to-speak, for the Holy Spirit to grow us in the life long journey of becoming more Christ-like. Thus, it is the Holy Spirit who changes and renews the mind, not us.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on November 3, 2011 at 3:22am

Amen.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 1, 2011 at 9:16pm

Char,

I am confused and I am trying cognitive behavioral therapy, etc.... I am praying for God's help and more light and to submit to His will.

I know that 1 Cor 2 says we have the mind of Christ but does that refer to our heart and our spirit and not our natural brain? The mind of Christ would only think pure and good and holy thoughts. Even as a 12 year old boy, Jesus was about His Father’s business. Is this mind of Christ that we have synonymous with the thinking we do in our very human brains which do not always think good and holy thoughts?

The context of the whole chapter of 1 Cor 2 seems to be about the Spirit and the human spirit. Can we know things in our spirit? Is that really where we have the mind of Christ?

Is to have the mind of Christ this: “We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us”?

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by JB on November 1, 2011 at 10:59pm

Char,

One of the biggest mistakes or traps that a new Christian falls into; after accepting Christ as savior, and has a hunger and a desire to know more about God is, trying to comprehend Spiritual things intellectually, and it just can’t be done, according to the scripture you referenced 1Cor.2, says that the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness unto him neither can he know them for they are spiritually discerned, but he that is Spiritual judges all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct Him? But we have the mind of Christ.

To have the mind of Christ is to have your mind renewed by the Word of God so you will be thinking like Christ, or another way to say it is you will be Spiritually minded. Or led by the Spirit and not by the flesh or carnally minded, in other words is to be led by what you see, feel, taste, hear and smell, [the five physical senses] Your Soul encompasses the mind, will, emotions, and your conscience, and until they are brought under the control of the Spirit, you will have nothing but mind boggling confusion. Your Spirit, Soul and body are three separate parts that makes up the human being. Man was created a spiritual being, but man sinned and fell from that spiritual being, meaning that man actually died, meaning he was separated from the life of God, which is Spiritual death, This is why we must be “born again, Spiritually” “reconciliation” So it is your spirit that is born again, your flesh and soul are the same, until you renew your mind and bring your will and emotions under the control of your recreated Spirit. This is why He says that you are transformed by the renewing of the mind. We are to take on the same image as Christ. 2Cor.3:18 says “But all we with open faces beholding as in a glass, the glory of the Lord, are changed into that same image, from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord” That glass He is talking about is the bible being as a mirror, the only way you can know what’s in the Spirit. you notice as we read the bible and allow the Holy Spirit reveal the truth of the Word, our desires will be to pattern our lives after Christ.
The Word says that “My Words, they are Spirit and they are life” The Word is to some, just words or they see it as a law, and as Rita was talking about “legalism” is when we are trying to follow the Word as a book of laws that governs the flesh, but actually it is Spirit. It is the Spirit of the Word that we walk by, not as a law. But when that Word becomes a reality to us and not just a theory or a doctrine, then we will be able to walk in total victory.

Believe me I know the response to statements like this by sense ruled men. But the Word is the ultimate authority and it tells me that we are to put on Christ , as He is so are we in this World. He represented the New Creation. And that is what He says we are, created in Him.

So much more that can be said about this, "The New Creation" but time doesn’t allow it at this time.

Blessings,

Joe

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on November 2, 2011 at 6:44am

Joe,

Man, I wish I had said that!

Blessings,

Rita

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on November 2, 2011 at 6:49am

Char,

May I suggest that you keep you mind focused on Christ and not worry about other things. When you start to worry, call out to God. Think on Christ. I don't think anyone can concentrate on God and worries at the same time. Select the better of the two. When you start to become depressed, remember what God said about who you are in Christ.

When I do this, cares that I would think, I don't think.

Will finish later.

Blessings,

Rita

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 2, 2011 at 9:31am

Char, I try to say things but they seem to come out all wrong and then I try to clarify and fail at that, too. So, for me to try to clarify what I was asking would only be a fiasco. Instead I looked up commentary about 1 Cor 2. I always read Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary. Matthew Henry’s Concise Commentary 1 Cor 2

Regarding that we have the mind of Christ, Henry writes:

The natural man, the wise man of the world, receives not the things of the Spirit of God. The pride of carnal reasoning is really as much opposed to spirituality, as the basest sensuality. The sanctified mind discerns the real beauties of holiness, but the power of discerning and judging about common and natural things is not lost. But the carnal man is a stranger to the principles, and pleasures, and actings of the Divine life. The spiritual man only, is the person to whom God gives the knowledge of his will. How little have any known of the mind of God by natural power! And the apostles were enabled by his Spirit to make known his mind. In the Holy Scriptures, the mind of Christ, and the mind of God in Christ, are fully made known to us. It is the great privilege of Christians, that they have the mind of Christ revealed to them by his Spirit. They experience his sanctifying power in their hearts, and bring forth good fruits in their lives.

I understand it to mean that as I read the Word of God and as Holy Spirit teaches me and guides me and comforts me and does His work in me, I have the mind of Christ. As far as my mind being renewed day by day, I willingly participate by choosing to read God's Word and study it and by submitting to God to live for Him according to the light He has given me this far. I haven't been living up to all of that light. It means returning to church and fellowship. That is the thing that is holding me back right now. I'm walking in the other things I know to do, reading the Word, praying, talking with you and other friends who are holding me accountable, etc...

So...I was just confused. Is to have the mind of Christ to have the Word and the Spirit which both help us know the mind of Christ?

I want to renew my mind. I feel powerless to do it alone though. Too many self-defeating and negative thoughts. Christian counseling helps me. There is work I have to do, too, though, it seems. I feel God asks me to participate in the mind renewal process. We are affected by everything we put into our minds. If you watch a violent movie you think vile thoughts, etc... I don't even watch much TV anymore for that reason. I am careful about what I choose to read. I want only to please God with my choices.

Anyway...love you.

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Amanda on November 3, 2011 at 5:17am

Char, I found this: How can I take control of my thoughts?

Answer: Many Christians struggle with this issue, especially in our highly technological world, but taking control of our thoughts is essential. Proverbs 4:23 states, "Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life." The “heart” includes the mind and all that proceeds from it. Someone said that every sin we commit, we commit twice, once in our thoughts and again when we act upon those thoughts. It is easiest to rid our lives of sin if we attack it at this fundamental thought level rather than waiting for it to become rooted in our lives by our actions and then try to pull it out.

There is also a difference between being tempted (a thought entering into the mind) and sinning (dwelling upon an evil thought and wallowing in it). It is important to understand that when a thought enters our mind, we examine it based upon God's Word and determine if we should continue down that path or reject the thought and replace it with another thought. If we have already allowed a habit to form in our thought lives, it becomes more difficult to change the path of our thoughts, even as it is hard to get a car out of a deep rut and onto a new track. Here are some biblical suggestions for taking control of our thoughts and getting rid of wrong thoughts:

1. Be in God's Word so that when a sinful thought enters our mind (a temptation), we will be able to recognize it for what it is and know what course to take. Jesus in the wilderness (Matthew 4) responded to each of Satan's temptations with Scripture that applied to the direction He knew His mind should take instead of beginning down the path of the sinful thought. When tempted to meet His physical need (turn stone into bread), He recited the passage about the importance of relying upon God. When tempted to serve Satan in order to obtain the glory of the world, He brought up the passage that says we are to serve and worship God alone and speak of the glory that belongs to Him and those who are His.

When tempted to test God (to see if God was really there and would keep His promises), Jesus responded with passages that stress the importance of believing God without having to see Him demonstrate His presence. Quoting Scripture in a time of temptation is not a talisman, but rather serves the purpose of getting our minds onto a biblical track, but we need to know the Word of God AHEAD of time in order to accomplish this. Thus, a daily habit of being in the Word in a meaningful way is essential. If we are aware of a certain area of constant temptation (worry, lust, anger, etc.), we need to study and memorize key passages that deal with those issues. Looking for both what we are to avoid (negative) and how we are to properly respond (positive) to tempting thoughts and situations—before they are upon us—will go a long way to giving us victory over them.

2. Live in dependence upon the Holy Spirit, chiefly through seeking His strength through prayer (Matthew 26:41). If we rely upon our own strength, we will fail (Proverbs 28:26; Jeremiah 17:9; Matthew 26:33).

3. We are not to feed our minds with that which will promote sinful thoughts. This is the idea of Proverbs 4:23. We are to guard our hearts—what we allow into them and what we allow them to dwell on. Job 31:1 states, "I have made a covenant with my eyes; Why then should I look upon a young woman" (NKJV). Romans 13:14 states, "But put on the Lord Jesus Christ, and make no provision for the flesh, to fulfill its lusts." Thus, we are to avoid periodicals, videos, websites, conversations and situations that will set us up for a fall. We should also avoid spending time with those who would encourage us down these wrong paths.

4. We are to pursue hard after God, substituting godly pursuits and mindsets for sinful thoughts. This is the principle of replacement. When tempted to hate someone, we replace those hateful thoughts with godly actions: we do good to them, speak well of them, and pray for them (Matthew 5:44). Instead of stealing, we should work hard to earn money so we can look for opportunities to give to others in need (Ephesians 4:28). When tempted to lust after a woman, we turn our gaze, praise God for the way He has made us—male and female—and pray for the woman (for example: "Lord, help this young woman to come to know you if she does not, and to know the joy of walking with you"), then think of her as a sister (1 Timothy 5:2). The Bible often speaks of "putting off" wrong actions and thoughts but then "putting on” godly actions and thoughts (Ephesians 4:22-32). Merely seeking to put off sinful thoughts without replacing those thoughts with godly ones leaves an empty field for Satan to come along and sow his weeds (Matthew 12:43-45).

5. We can use fellowship with other Christians the way God intended. Hebrews 10:24-25 states, "And let us consider how we may spur one another on toward love and good deeds. Let us not give up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but let us encourage one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching." Fellow Christians who will encourage us in the changes we desire (best if of the same gender), who will pray for and with us, who will ask us in love how we are doing, and who will hold us accountable in avoiding the old ways, are valuable friends indeed.

Last and most important, these methods will be of no value unless we have placed our faith in Christ as Savior from our sin. This is where we absolutely must start! Without this, there can be no victory over sinful thoughts and temptations, and God’s promises for His children are not for us, nor is the Holy Spirit’s power available to us! If there is any doubt in this area, the area of our website dealing with this all-important issue is: http://www.gotquestions.org/eternal-life.html.

God will bless those who seek to honor Him with what matters most to Him: who we are inside and not just what we appear to be to others. May God make Jesus’ description of Nathanael true also of us—a man [or woman] in whom there is no guile (John 1:47).

Recommended Resource: The Mind of Christ by T.W. Hunt.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on November 3, 2011 at 8:46am

Char,

>>And again, it wasn't my doing, but only God who could've stopped it and did.

Beautifully stated. Hallelujah!!!!

Permalink Reply by JB on November 2, 2011 at 9:07am

Char,

I’ve posted this a couple of times and maybe you have read it and just forgotten,

But one way we recognize a mind that has not been renewed is,

#1. It is always warring against unbelief. See the flesh and the Spirit is always waging war against each other. The flesh “our carnal mind” is not subject to the laws of God neither indeed can be. Rom.8:7

So it is in constant conflict when we are ruled by our senses. Called a sense ruled mind.

#2. It is always praying for faith, but they never see it in the physical, so they don’t believe they have it.

But actually when you were born again and received Christ as your savior, that faith was deposited in your spirit. It is one of the fruits mentioned in Gal.5:22, But read vs. 13-26. So we have faith, but the senses “our carnal minds” just can’t grasp it, Because if we can’t see it, feel it, taste it, smell it or hear it, it just doesn’t exist. When you received Christ it was by faith, not by your feelings. So it is by faith that you have all the fruits mentioned in scripture, as well as all the gifts and promises given to Abraham.

#3. Always talking unbelief, yet struggling to get faith. This will lead us into, what James calls “a wavering faith” we negate our faith when we pray for something and because we can‘t see it, we will say things like, well I guess it didn‘t happen, or maybe it is not God‘s will for me to be healed. Or maybe I have sinned and God can’t hear me, this would be a performance based faith and it will never happen.

#4. Confessing failure, at the same time confessing faith in God’s Word, yet denying it is action.

#5. Trying to believe, but never acting on the Word.

I would like to explain the last two, but must go.

Joe

▶ Reply

Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on November 2, 2011 at 9:15am

Joe,

I always appreciate your input because you explain soo much better than I do. I have it but can't get it out. I know others need to hear it but don't seem to relate as you do.

What does Roman 12:2 mean to you?

Replies to This Discussion

The Good News

Meet Face-to-Face & Collaborate