WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM

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Permalink Reply by The evidence based Stig on June 1, 2011 at 8:01am

Uh-oh troubles in the room ;)

When I was a Redcliffe Bible college for what essentially was a weeks crash course in theology, we looked at Calvinst and Arminian views on certain aspects of overall Church phylosophy and theology. What struck me is that both can use scripture, without having to twist it, to support their views. Some are based on interpretations of varying pieces of scripture as opposed to just one literal interpretation of a single passage but ultimately, both can be jusfitified and both have flaws.

This seems to say a lot about the nature of scripture and indeed the nature of humans. The desire for people to define others (or indeed themselves) by applying labels which have traits neatly packaged into little boxes never ceases to amaze me. Scripture is not uniform; Calvanists will quote a piece of scripture to support their views whilst the Arminians will quote another piece of scripture that contradicts it. There are mis-understandings on both sides but then, it's not limited to just Calvanists and Arminians.

The differences seem to be in the details and as I have found from personal experience lately, it's very easy to get bogged down in the details. Theological debates are great and healthy as it stops people getting complacent but they should never lose sight of the main points on which they share common ground.

Anyway, the main questions I have are centred on the below:

- Was Jesus not able to sin or was he able not to sin?
- Was he both fully God and fully man or did he empty himself, his deity continued but chose not to use it
- How can God have planned everything for us yet will still have true free will?

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on June 3, 2011 at 8:12am

 

Was Jesus not able to sin or was he able not to sin?

This question requires its own discussion. It has been debated for centuries. The short and sweet answer. Yes and no. His human side could sin, but his divine side couldn't. His divine side ruled the natural man, just as we are able to do, but Christ did it perfectly.

 

- Was he both fully God and fully man or did he empty himself, his deity continued but chose not to use it

He was fully man and fully God. What He emptied himself of has been debated as well, but for the most we believe He emptied himself of his "glory as God". Which glory was given back to him after crucifixion/resurrection.

 

- How can God have planned everything for us yet will still have true free will?

 

We do not have free will as God has free will. We have the ability to choose according to the liberties granted to us. God can do anything. There are no laws that keep him from doing what to us is impossible. He creates whatever laws are placed into action, so He is Lord over all of them and it's transcendent to them. God can do whatever He wants, but what He said He cannot do.

Permalink Reply by LucyP on September 26, 2011 at 3:47am

Amen, very good word Grazer, I feel sometimes that these forums on AAG tend to push the Calvinist point of view as being the 'truth', without saying, for example: 'this is my opinion', or 'this is how I feel', For new believers who come to the site, as I was, it is very confusing and indeed frightening, we must remember to be gentle , accepting, and always show that this is just our opinion, or indeed someone elses... and also always quote who you are quoting from, so as to enable the person to see who the originator is thus enabling them to make an informed choice in matters.

Permalink Reply by Carla on September 26, 2011 at 6:06am

Lucy,

 

This is a very important point.  The two separate views are both human interpretations, limited by our limited human understanding..  Thank you for bringing this out.  That is why it usually becomes such a hot topic, because when a person feels strongly about their point of view, they want others to see it too. (this goes for me too).

 

The most important thing here : Eyes on Jesus for His Glory...never our own.  Sometimes leaving a topic and agreeing to disagree brings Him the most Glory...because this side of heaven there will be things the entire body will not agree on.

 

Thank you Beloved, Carla

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on October 11, 2011 at 9:39am

 

Lucy -

 

Good reminder beloved. But what I share is not just my opinion. It is straight from the pages of Scripture. Calvin did not come up with what I believe to be true, many have come to the same conclusions Calvin was used to integrate into a system of theology, without ever knowing who Calvin was or being even aware of his existence. The doctrines of Grace are from the bible.

 

I am serious about teaching the truth about this and other matters. Is not the popular belief, but I am ok with that. 

 

Blessings  

 

Permalink Reply by Carla on October 11, 2011 at 11:56am

 

 

David bro,

 

Calvinism and Arminiasm are both merely theories of how the gospel is applied to our lives.. or  how we may become saved/reborn.  Neither stance is the gospel message.  There are good godly people on both sides of the fence.  Taking a strong stand one way or the other has the potential to be divisive and is upsetting to many people.  The Doctrine of Grace is indeed biblical, but not necessarily how the Calvinist view presents it. 

 

There are really four different views on this:

1) Palagian-  we are free to choose God or not.  God says 'Here you go..here is Salvation'..  we say 'Yes or No'

2) Semi-Palagian-  If we want to believe God will help us.  For example; God will heal us, or respond in our lives before we know Him to woo us.. It's His way of helping us

3) Arminian- God turns us around to free us up to receive Him, He draws everyone, He gets us ready to say Yes or No.  We are spiritually dead before He draws us to Himself and we respond.  Grace is compelling, but not overpowering or controlling.  We have the freedom to accept or reject.  The chosen (all people) choose back, and a loving relationship grows.  We are empowered to mature and grow.  Salvation is a free gift of Grace thru faith.  We need God’s help, and He does help us, but never controls us.

4) Augustinian/Calvinism- God must make us choose Him if we are to be saved.  We are totally depraved, dead and unable to choose anything good.  Jesus died for only some people…not all.  His Grace is irrestible.  (I would have to agree that God’s Grace is irrestible, but only now that I know Him, prior to being saved, I knew nothing of Grace, and I didn’t care, but He continued to woo me to a point that I did care).   God's will is the only will operative in Salvation.  He chooses His elect people..  He has to give us CPR first..  There are many problems with this view, one of them is that total depravity is not biblical in the way that this theory teaches. 

Ephesians 21,2

 ¹ And you ^[a]were ^(A)dead ^[b]in your trespasses and sins, ² in which you ^(B)formerly walked according to the ^[c]course of ^(C)this world, according to ^(D)the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in ^(E)the sons of disobedience.

Calvinism will teach that we are unable to do anything good..  But scripture says otherwise.  There are many biblical examples of people who lived righteously (Genesis 6:9; Job 1:1; Luke 1:5-8; Acts 10:1-4).

The verse does not teach inability, rather it teaches that dead people are separated from life when we are separated from God.  However, we are still made in God's image.  Our free choice is an expression of being God's image bearers.  The free choice God gives us has been weakened, but not lost, destroyed or rendered inert.  We are responsible to choose life. (Deut 30:11-19 and Joshua 24:15)

 

.. seee Eph 4:17,18.  verse 18b says 'excluded from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them because of the hardness of their heart..  verse 19 goes on "and they, having become callous, have given themselves over....."  This is clearly a choice.  The ability to make the choice happens because God has given us that ability.  The message everyone needs to hear is 'Choose Life" ....not 'God chose you and you have to say yes'.  God has given us a choice:

 

Choose Life

 ¹⁵ “See, ^(S)I have set before you today life and ^[t]prosperity, and death and ^[u]adversity; ¹⁶ in that I command you today ^(T)to love the LORD your God, to walk in His ways and to keep His commandments and His statutes and His judgments, that you ^(U)may live and multiply, and that the LORD your God may bless you in the land where you are entering to possess it. ¹⁷ But if your heart turns away and you will not obey, but are drawn away and worship other gods and serve them, ¹⁸ I declare to you today that ^(V)you shall surely perish. You will not prolong your days in the land where you are crossing the Jordan to enter ^[v]and possess it. ^{19 (W)}I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, ^(X)the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your ^[w]descendants, ^{20 (Y)}by loving the LORD your God, by obeying His voice, and ^(Z)by holding fast to Him; ^(AA)for ^[x]this is your life and the length of your days, ^[y]that you may live in ^(AB)the land which the LORD swore to your fathers, to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, to give them.”

 

"Everyone who wills, wills willingly. ...Although Adam and Eve yielded themselves to sin, they could not abolish in themselves their natural freedom of choice.  ~Anslem (1033-1109), Truth, Freedom and Evil.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on October 11, 2011 at 12:08pm

I had to join the group just to say this: Carla, amen and amen.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 2, 2011 at 12:56pm

Permalink Reply by Louis Akporiaye on September 2, 2011 at 6:41pm

Perfect answer the the above questions bro David. I just came on here today because of this message on Total Depravity and Responsibility which i received its notice on my inbox this mroning. Its worth listening to especially as it supports my belief. I will need it in my teachings also. Thank God for you and also for John Piper. Keep on the good work and God bless you abundantly.

Shalom.

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 2, 2011 at 6:52pm

I am glad you enjoyed it my beloved. It is good to see you here. Blessings

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on September 19, 2011 at 1:54am

Permalink Reply by RoyW on September 19, 2011 at 3:27am

Wow! Excellent. Powerful! Totally and absolutely free - the only position that works. Otherwise, we have worked for our salvation and that cannot be the case. Thank You, Lord.

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