What do you do when you can't?

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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on August 22, 2011 at 7:49am

God weighs our hearts.  He knows how we feel, about everything.

It is the heart of the giver not the amount.  When things are tight

we are giving out of our lack, as the widow women did.  God

loves the heart of a giver.  He will supply seed to the sower.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 23, 2011 at 5:06am

Good word Chris.

 

Blessings

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on August 22, 2011 at 6:03pm

>>"...Will God be angry if..."

 

What you really want to know is "what will God bless?". 

 

I have learned (from this very scenario) that God blesses faithfulness. Part of faithfulness is paying our bills. Another part is trusting Him to do the impossible on our behalf. 

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Permalink Reply by Larry M. on August 22, 2011 at 9:26pm

RESPONSIBLE GIVING OF TITHES AND OFFERINGS NOT BY COMMAND BUT BY LOVE, HOPE AND FAITH.

1 Now concerning the collection for the saints, as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye.
2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.   1 CORINTHIANS 16:1-2

 6 But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
 7 Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.    2 CORINTHIANS 9:6-7

2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
 3 For to their power, I bear record, yea, and beyond their power they were willing of themselves;  2 CORINTHIANS 8:2-3

 

 

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 23, 2011 at 5:09am

Hello my bro Larry,

 

Are you alluding that the verses you quoted above have to do with tithing?

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Permalink Reply by Larry M. on August 23, 2011 at 5:31pm

Is the followng verses not applicable to tithing or is it more applicable in giving? I believe tithing has a standard. Is giving has no standard to follow? God is the God of order. Is there no order in tithes and offerings. Is there no order in cheerful giving ( as the new testament believers embracing cheerful giving and forgetting tithing because it is under the law )? What  is the big difference between OT tithing and NT cheerful giving? Is the OT not applicable or cross refence to NT? Is circumstances not a test to our faithfulness in giving back our thankfulness? Just a few of questions in my mind brethren. I know everyone need a lot to learn and i am one of them. God bless... tnx

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 23, 2011 at 9:27pm

 

My brother Larry,

 

I hope our sister Mich doesn't mind us venturing a bit away from her original intent. If she does, I hope she lets us know, so we do not continue.

 

There are no N.T. verses that apply to tithing for the N.T. church. Tithing was a command which called for much more than a total of 10% to be given. God has told us how the N.T. church is to give and is not by tithing.

 

>>Does giving have a standard to follow? Indeed, give as God has prospered you and also be lead by the Holy Spirit. The Spirit will let us know how much to give and when.  That is what our personal relationship with Christ is for, for God to lead us in all things. This presents no disorder at all, none what so ever.

 

>>What  is the big difference between OT tithing and NT cheerful giving? There are many differences. Primarily that tithing is a command  which sets the amount to give, while Cheerful giving depends on a relationship with Christ in ordered to be pleasing to the Lord in our giving.

 

>>Is the OT not applicable or cross refence to NT? The OT was a shadow of the things to come, it also has innumerable lessons for us to learn. We all know or should know that we are no longer under the law. We fulfill the law when we walk in the Spirit.

 

Great questions. Thanks for asking - blessings

 

Is God upset at people who tithe? I don't think so, i think He blesses them. :)

 

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 24, 2011 at 9:17pm

Thank you beloved Mich for your kind words. Love You and I enjoy your input as well! :)

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Permalink Reply by Larry M. on August 24, 2011 at 8:35pm

We are not capable of so many things but God grace is sufficient and His strength is perfect in our weakness.

Circumstances is really a test of our faithfulness. Yes, we are not perfect but we can live in righteousness through His mercy and grace.  A Christian that cannot pay their electric and water bills is not good testimony, so as the church workers and building.

God will not put us in test that we cannot overcome. our faithfulness is not in vain.

I always wonder why God put so many parables and stories like the one on ACTS 4:34-37 and  ACTS 5:1-14

Is it the way the NT believers should give, much higher than the OT 10% tithes?

How are we going to  determine the fake from authentic?

How would we be able to recognize faithfulness in giving when there is no order or bases? Yes, it is God to determined... Didn't He mentioned any bases in the whole Scriptures, OT & NT?

Is the commnad not anymore applicable today? kill? steal? covet? etc?

When did He said stop giving your tithes?

Is it because tithes is not mentioned in the NT does it meant it is not anymore applicable?

Pastor Eddie Cude mentioned a good one about tithes on my post Tithes & offerings posted by michelle.

God bless... some questions in my mind brethren...Tnx

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on August 25, 2011 at 7:04am

Beloved Larry,

 

>>A Christian that cannot pay their electric and water bills is not good testimony, so as the church workers and building.

 

Brother, for different circumstances millions of Christians throughout the world at times cannot pay their bills, but they keep praising God and shining for Him through it all. We serve a good God, a Holy God who gives and takes away according to His good pleasure. I do understand what your comment means to convey and I agree with you that if a believer is in responsible in managing his funds, then, they are a bad testimony.

 

>>Is it the way the NT believers should give, much higher than the OT 10% tithes?

 

The N.T. believer should give according to how the Lord instructs them to and many times that is higher than the  10% tithe.

 

>>How are we going to  determine the fake from authentic?

 

By their fruits we would know them, the word states, but we do not know the heart or mind of men, so it is hard to determine the fake from the authentic most of the time unless we have lots of interaction with the person. Someone that pays their tithes may be doing it for the wrong reasons, so giving tithes is not the determining factor of someone's authenticity. A giving Spirit does help us see Christ in a person's life, but if the person cannot give money, but gives time and service, then that is just as precious, if not more precious.

 

>>How would we be able to recognize faithfulness in giving when there is no order or bases?

 

There is an order, give as God leads and there is a basis, God has commanded us to give.

 

>>Is the commnad not anymore applicable today?

 

That is correct brother, the command is no longer applicable, the command to tithe, that is, but the command to give remains. We are to give it all for Christ.

 

>>kill? steal? covet? etc?

 

those are part of the moral law, which remains perfect and applicable, but the Levitical laws are no longer applicable by law to the N.T. church, yet it is wise to follow many of them.

 

Romans 3:20
Therefore no one will be declared righteous in God’s sight by the works of the law; rather, through the law we become conscious of our sin.
Romans 3:21
[ Righteousness Through Faith ] But now apart from the law the righteousness of God has been made known, to which the Law and the Prophets testify.
Romans 3:27
Where, then, is boasting? It is excluded. Because of what law? The law that requires works? No, because of the law that requires faith.
Romans 3:28
For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the law.
Romans 3:31
Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law.

We fulfill the law when we walk in the Spirit (Romans 8).

 

Romans 7:1
[ Released From the Law, Bound to Christ ] Do you not know, brothers and sisters—for I am speaking to those who know the law—that the law has authority over someone only as long as that person lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law that binds her to him. So then, if she has sexual relations with another man while her husband is still alive, she is called an adulteress. But if her husband dies, she is released from that law and is not an adulteress if she marries another man.

Romans 7:4
So, my brothers and sisters, you also died to the law through the body of Christ, that you might belong to another, to him who was raised from the dead, in order that we might bear fruit for God.

Romans 7:6
But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code.

 

Romans 8:3-4
For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

 

1 Corinthians 9:20
To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.

 

>>When did He said stop giving your tithes?

When God established new principals for giving - Check out part of an article about this topic below. I am not familiiar with the writer of the article, but I thought his teaching on this subject is sound.

 

Give - Proportionately as God Has Prospered

Mark Robbins, CPA

Paul indicates that the Grace of Giving involves each person giving according to two principles: giving proportionately to their income and giving as God has prospered them (2 Cor. 8:3, 12-14; 1 Cor. 16:1-2).

So what is the proper proportion of giving for a believer today? We know that in the Old Testament God required a tithe or 10% “of everything from the land” (Lev. 27:30-33) be set aside to be used as God might command. Other passages expound on this. Numbers 18 says the tithes were to be used

to support those who were dedicated to serving God. In Deuteronomy 12 and 14, a tithe was to be brought to the sanctuary for distribution. In Deuteronomy 14 and 26, another tithe was introduced to be collected every third year for the local needy. On top of this, the Law also made provision for “free will offerings,” which were not viewed as a burden. God was more than able to make the land grow and produce abundantly so all needs would be met. Malachi 3:10 indicates this type of giving was an act of worship and an expression of confidence in God. What a wonderful way to view giving to God. In the New Testament, we do not find a mention of a tithe or any dollar figure imposed by God for the believers’ giving. What God wants first is the giving of ourselves (Rom 12:1-2). When this takes place, we will then give out of a heart of love and gratitude to God. Is a tithe still a proportionately

appropriate amount to give to God? I believe so. It is, at least, a good place to start though we might give more as God directs and prospers us. I also believe we might permissibly give less under some circumstances. In any case, a tithe should never be viewed as what we owe God, or as a bribe for securing God’s blessings, nor should any guilt be associated with our giving. We should give from willing hearts of gratitude as directed by God. Our giving is an offering to God--an act of worship. If the amount given is with the proper attitude as the Holy Spirit directs, it is acceptable to God.

 

Blessings beloved.

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Permalink Reply by Larry M. on August 25, 2011 at 5:58pm

David,

I'm agreable with you on the following: " What God wants first is the giving of ourselves (Rom 12:1-2). When this takes place, we will then give out of a heart of love and gratitude to God. Is a tithe still a proportionately appropriate amount to give to God? I believe so. It is, at least, a good place to start though we might give more as God directs and prospers us. In any case, a tithe should never be viewed as what we owe God, or as a bribe for securing God’s blessings, nor should any guilt be associated with our giving. We should give from willing hearts of gratitude as directed by God. Our giving is an offering to God--an act of worship. If the amount given is with the proper attitude as the Holy Spirit directs, it is acceptable to God."

 

Really everything starts with God; the more we know Him, the more we will know how to praise and worship Him. If we will be able to submit ourselves to HIm, everything about us will involuntary just submit to Him so as our tithes, giving and sacrificial offerings...

God bless brethren... thanks learning alot here...

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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on August 25, 2011 at 8:03pm

Ultimately, it all belongs to Him and we're just the stewards. He grants us much abundance and it's really a test of faith of how we invest what He has already shared with us. "Much abundance" can vary from one person to another. But, we all have many gifts and blessings. 

 

It is all His, though. 

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