All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
The Value of Suffering
What is the value of suffering? How has God worked in your life through suffering? What have you learned from suffering?
It seems to me that all of the Apostles suffered, in various ways. Jesus suffered unimaginably. What is it that God does in us through suffering, that cannot be done other ways?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on
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Amanda,
I guess the scripture that I am trying to focus on at the moment is:
There is no fear in love. But perfect love drives out fear, because fear has to do with punishment. The one who fears is not made perfect in love - 1 John 4:18.
The whole of the chapter in fact....
Love seems to be the key - abiding in LOVE! A heart emotion if I am correct just as God looks upon the heart.
I often think - well God knows your heart - your heart desire and if that lines up with His will then He will cause you to walk in it - He will help!
Not trying to answer any questions here just sharing my thoughts....
To me there is 2 fears - one that is frightened of judgement such as in the scripture above - one knows they are not walking in love perhaps and are fearful of judgement of such if not repentant. Then there is what I would prefer to say as reverence. Revering His ways.... a deep respect or admiration which causes you to listen and adhere.
LOVE is so important this I know and I am sure that God will perfect it in me as I walk in this schoolground of life.
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Amanda,
I wonder if other emotions are borne out of either fear or love. I think that God has seasons of anger and this is evident in the Old Testament when He dealt with Israel. I think of Solomon writing, "a time for love, a time for hate etc".
Dualistic - I had to look that one up :-) forgive my ignorance and according to the definition it is two mutually hostile or opposing forces working - if that definition is a correct one. I would say that there is one hostile force working in this world and that is satan (but only for a time). The other is LOVE and that is God for God is love. I would say that suffering was brought into effect by the hostile force - satan and God through His love has reversed the effects with His Son. Not always apparent in this life (we look forward to it in faith) but will be apparent in the next. We hang on in faith. God is good to those who are pure in heart. A purity that is attainable to those who as you say "have Christ formed within them". Suffering for me Amanda preserves me - that is how I have come to see it or come to terms with it - if you like. Do I always feel like this - NO! Some days I cry out, "when Lord" but here I am still - suffering. I would say based upon that - that sometimes I can be dualistic (doubleminded) - two forces operating in me not allowing one to overcome the other. If that makes sense. If he disallowed it in my life I would not be where I am today spiritually - I would be lost - I feel. I am sharing my heart here. It hurts and I wish it would end but I know that God is accomplishing something through it so I patiently bare it - if that makes sense. Some days are easier than others - on the days it is not I become dualistic (or doubleminded) but God strengthens - I become stronger and LOVE rules.
I would say YES it is possible to love God without fear and so I push on - struggling, fighting with that angel (God) until I stop and say, "Now bless me". I will not let go and request the blessing...... I will overcome by the blood of the Lamb!
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Mediating (thinking over - slow to speak quick to listen :-) ) on your reply Amanda - prayers and love.
Linda Ruth
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Amanda,
This hymn comes to mind:
Turn Your Eyes Upon Jesus
(Live)
O soul are you weary and troubled?
No light in the darkness you see?
There’s light for a look at the Savior
And life more abundant and free
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace
Through death into life everlasting
He passed and we follow Him there
Over us sin no more hath dominion
For more than conquerors we are
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace
His Word shall not fail you – He promised
Believe Him and all will be well
Then go to a world that is dying
His perfect salvation to tell
Turn your eyes upon Jesus
Look full in His wonderful face
And the things of earth will grow strangely dim
In the light of His glory and grace -
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Real spirituality develops when we refuse to limit our scope of view to the tragedy; and when we learn to worship the Lord, the one who takes tragedy and turns it to triumph.
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Amanda,
Honestly, I don't know how I DO (I feel like humpty dumpty sometimes) and don't think I can but I am looking and hanging onto the one that can turn things around. Bind up the broken-hearted. My bible says He can. So hang on I do and this is my prayer for you. I am thinking of Noami here.
Luv you sister!
Linda
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Michelle,
I would say it is all a building process and that the Lord knows the areas in which each of us need to grow. Faith is one area without a doubt. I would also include the "Fruit of the Spirit." We need to mature in each of these as well and we are all at different levels in each of these areas.
Lord Bless,
LT
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I suffer when I sin. Christ suffered because of our sins. I think that we should all consider what part we play in our own suffering. I suspect it outweighs what anyone else could do to us to cause suffering.
If I have suffered, I caused it because of something that I instigated, so I learn to stop doing that which I know not to do. What God has done in me is to change my heart even further than what salvation has changed it. He has taught me to consider all that I might do that isn't as I should and has shown me a better way.
Now, if i have learned, I will suffer less and less.
Blessings,
Rita
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Dear Scribe
In my experience it is the things that we learn from suffering that mean the most and stay with us the longest. By that I simply mean that ( in my experience anyhow ) that I become much more attentive to God in my times of greater need and the very presence of God seems to be much more real ( perhaps a poor choice of words ) during the times of suffering.
I guess because God ceases to be somewhat of an abstract concept and becomes a very present reality. Too many times we quote scripture and make prfessions of what we belive and then God will allow us to be tested through our suffering to see if we truly do believe what we profess. I don't mean so much that others will believe us more but that we will begin to understand with greater clarity that God is indeed enterested and is intervening in all the aspects of our lives. God seems to become a lot more of the 'personal ' Savior that He truly is and less of a 'theology to be pondered.
God bless
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Bro,
I really wish I had the time to get into this topic deeply because it is of such importance to understand suffering in the world and in the personal level.
What is the value of suffering?
1. It forces us to seek God .
2. It forces us to grow in areas of our life that we would not in any other way.
3. It makes us compassionate people. People who understand Grace and Mercy.
His grace is sufficient and His mercies are renewed every morning.
4. it helps us to hope in our Lord.
5. It helps us keep our mind in heavenly things.
6. It helps me appreciate life.
7. they make me a better person all around.
Etc, etc, etc...
How has God worked in your life through suffering?
He has comforted me, so I can comfort others with the comfort He gave me. The sufferings of these world have blessed me more than anything else, for my Lord has turned them around for His glory.
As brutal as my life has been, I would not change it for another. God has made who I am through it all. I can relate to many due to my sufferings. Some self inflicted and others are the consequences of living in a dying world, but God has change
What have you learned from suffering?
His grace is sufficient for me.
New International Version (©1984)
I consider that our present sufferings are not worth comparing with the glory that will be revealed in us. Romans 8:18
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Permalink Reply by a servant (Chris) on
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As for me among other things I have learned trust, I have learned how to lean.
Found out how to get beyond myself. I have seen and understood compassion.
The biggest thing for me though is finding the "Joy and Peace" that live beyond
what we see as suffering. Still it is hard when we are in constant pain, but you
can either focus on the pain or the Word of God. He is there no matter what
that has been a source of great Joy.
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Real spirituality develops when we refuse to limit our scope of view to the tragedy; and when we learn to worship the Lord, the one who takes tragedy and turns it to triumph. Every human being experiences loss, heartache, pain. Some more than others, but it is the plight of the human condition.
I am convinced of this: Power from Heaven fills us and transforms us when we refuse to let our suffering be the name of the tune we sing; when we learn to defiantly reject the bitterness and reverently sing the song of worship to the greatness of our God and Savior. It's called "the sacrifice of Praise". It's when everything in you demands that you curse, but instead you choose to worship God.
When Moses and the children of Israel went through the desert and traveled for many days through the place where there was no water... they eventually came to a pool of water that was bitter. The people mourned and cursed Moses. Moses worshipped God and instead of lamenting, he threw a dead (cursed) tree into the waters which made them sweet. And the people were refreshed. [It seems an odd story, at first.]
On the cross, Jesus was offered gall to end his suffering. Gall is very bitter and it causes the body to shut down and die faster in times of suffering, by increasing the dehydration and causing the body's muscles and organs to contract - like eating a bitter lemon makes you pucker your mouth. It would have caused him to die quickly and suddenly. He would have seized up and shriveled.
Jesus refused to accept the gall, he refused to become bitter. He chose instead to endure the cross - to allow it's pain to do it's worst to Him. He chose also to worship the Father and endure the cross to the very end, by faith.
The thieves wanted Jesus to curse God and die. The crowd wanted him to blaspheme and die. The Romans wanted him to scream with agony and give them a good show of his suffering. Satan wanted Jesus to disobey the Father, or to quit the cross and forsake humanity. Our Savior chose to worship; He chose to do the will of the Father with endurance and with godliness and with faithfulness.
Jesus chose to overcome the cross. He took the tree of the cross and threw it into the endless pool of human bitterness and made the waters of our tears to become sweet.
Jesus chose to look forward, to see His reward. What was that? Heaven? No, that was his from before time. His reward was salvation for humanity, a lost rabble of sinful and corrupt creation that was unworthy of Him. But Jesus looked to His reward, scorned the cross, refused to yield and worshipped the Father with obedience. Every breath of Jesus on the cross was an act of defiance against sin and it's corruption that causes suffering. Each one was an act of worship to the Father.
I don't speak of this in abstract. I understand suffering. I have lived through it for short and long periods. Physical suffering and emotional suffering really take a toll on you. I know that it's like when pain grips you and won't let go - when it drains life out of you and tears your sanity apart.
Jesus gave us an example, as much as performing a miraculous work, he also showed us how to live the miracle.
As He said to Paul, "my grace is sufficient for you, for my power is perfected in weakness". None of us understands what that means until we have been forced to endure the crucible of suffering and made the choice to overcome it, by his grace. The fastest way that I have found to overcome suffering, is by worship; by fixing my mind on my Savior and on my reward - I have learned to endure. It's not easy, not at all, but I have seen some miraculous things happen when I chose to truly and sincerely worship my heart out while enduring times of suffering.
I don't know what all the purpose for why God allows us to suffer. But, I know that we can overcome it, by the Grace of God given to us in Jesus. Our Comforter gives us grace to endure, in times of need, if we lean on him. I believe worship is the most powerful way to lean on him. It puts us in the low place, which allows him to arise on our behalf.
I hate to admit it, but I'm a weak man and I need the perfecting power of Jesus transmitted into my life. If suffering is the vehicle that I have to ride to get that, then God knows why and God knows how to transmit that power into my life the best way. I don't like it, but God is wiser than I.
Hebrews 12:1-3 tells us: " Therefore we also, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which so easily ensnares us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, looking unto Jesus, the author and finisher of our faith, who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and has sat down at the right hand of the throne of God."
For that joy that is set before you, for the opportunity to have a good testimony of faith when you stand before the Savior, I pray that you will look to Jesus and endure in times of suffering with faith, with worship and a heart that resists unbelief. He gives strength to the weary, when we worship him.
If you give up, if you curse God and surrender to the pain, if you choose to let the suffering overcome you... then you can never know what God's triumph is for you. You can never know what power can be perfected in your weakness.
But, if you choose, by faith, to overcome - then God will make great triumph out of tragedy. It is his promise. "And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose." (Romans 8:28)
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