All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
when an unsaved loved one dies
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Great answer sister Carla and Kristina. The one thing to remember is that we are called to preach and teach and evangelized our circle of influence, but God gives the increase and He alone draws men to himself, understanding that helps us not fall into condemnation.
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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on
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Hi David,
Are you speaking here of the Calvinistic view that God chooses us, we do not choose Him? I believe the Bible view that God gave each of us a free will to choose or reject Him. But let's not get into a debate as I know we each see things from our own view. I would never get under condemnation due to another's choice as I feel they have a free will to choose to come to God or not. On one thing here we do agree, that we are called to present Jesus to those we encounter every opportunity we get.
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Hello sister Jane,
My message was only meant to help us not fall into condemnation that we did not do enough to help our unsaved love one come to Christ. I did mention that God gives the increase and that He draws men to Himself, which is explicitly taught in scripture.
I was not presenting Calvin's view beloved nor was it my desire to get into the topic of Election, but since you have brought up one of my favorite biblical doctrines I will bite. This is a very hot topic among us and I would not like to take this discussion down that road. if you want to read my biblical view on that subject, please join my Theology group and feel free to share in this discussion: WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM
http://www.allaboutgod.net/group/theologygroup/forum/topics/what-is...
The biblical doctrine of election, which teaches that none can come to Christ unless God draws them to Himself is beautiful, but we also see in the word God calling all men to repentance and telling us that none that come to Him will be rejected, so we do not add or subtract from the word, but preach the full council of God. God elects, chooses and saves men, but also calls them to believe and repent.
Calvin did agree with the biblical doctrine of election, but it did not originate in his mind, but in God's good pleasure and will.
John 6:43 “Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44 “No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day.
Mark 13:20
And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.My sister Jane, I am using biblical language when I write that God chooses and elects those who are saved.
Love and blessings to you.
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David,
I would not get under condemnation about my family members dying without Christ if I had done all I knew to do to witness to them and show them God's love. Even then, I would question my heart as to whether I had done everything I could to reach them. But if a person who calls himself a Christian does not care about the souls of his family, friends and others he encounters to share the gospel with them, then something is wrong with his Christian experience and it follows that he should feel guilt and condemnation. He won't feel it though if he is not really a Christian or lukewarm. Anyone can claim to be a Christian, but it doesn't mean he is. True Christians can not sleep at night knowing their family members or others are lost and on the path to Hell, because we have the nature of God and do not wish for any to perish. They always seek to be used of the Lord to be His witnesses. It is not their job to save others, they can't, only God can when an individual says yes to Jesus. This is my position which I feel is born out by The Word.
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Permalink Reply by kristina on
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For the believer, the death of an unsaved loved one is very difficult. Sometimes it seems we will never find comfort or peace of mind when we know the destiny awaiting the unsaved. When a saved loved one dies, we miss him, but we do not grieve “as others who have no hope” (1 Thessalonians 4:13), because we know we will be reunited in heaven one day.
But for those who die without Christ, we know we will not see them again and finding comfort in that situation is very painful.Although we may have pain in the remembrance of that loved one while we are in this life and go through the grief process, there will come a time when each born-again believer will be with the Lord. In that day “God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away" (Revelation 21:4). We cannot comprehend how that will be because we live in time and are constrained by our finite minds. However, just the thought of that is enough to bring comfort and encouragement. When we see the Lord, all of the sorrow we have now will disappear. "You now have sorrow; but I will see you again and your heart will rejoice, and your joy no one will take from you" (John 16:22). In the meantime, we can lean on the everlasting arms of God, who feels our pain and comforts us with His great love and mercy.
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Good answers, Carla and kristina. I will add one of my own to my own question. Years ago I had an out of body tunnel experience. I'm sure you have heard of it before. You know one finds oneself flying through a dark tunnel and then there is a bright light. Next, one arrives at Heaven. Well this actually happened to me. And when I came into the light it was the most amazing thing- I knew I had arrived at Heaven and I felt so much peace that I could not remember a single thing re my life on earth. I couldn't even remember my children whom I dearly love. It was like my memory of things past was wiped clean. All I could think about was the amazing peace I felt. My former life was completely gone! The peace of Heaven was so powerful that the greatest peace from this life we live was no longer in my memory. I am blessed to of had this spiritual experience, because it reminds me always that when our reward of Heaven occurs, the former things will truly be erased from our minds.
But I asked this question, because it is hard to picture one's loving grandparents, mother, father, sister or brother etc who nevertheless rejected Christ not being in Heaven and suffering in Hell for eternity. So, I wondered how others deal with this in the here and now. Its a curious thing to know that we witnessed to them all our Christian lives, but they rejected Christ. It robs the current peace we have in Christ, while those who don't believe never have to deal with this. I guess the answer is, this is something God can not spare us in this life, we will suffer pain over their rejection of the Lord, but we will be comforted day by day as we hand it over to the Lord and will be totally healed of the tremendous concern and loss we feel once we enter His Kingdom.
Like Chris, another thing I have wondered is, even though we know that they never accepted the Lord and lived their lives on this earth for Him, is it possible that they are given one last chance before they die, unknown to us, and that they then surrendered, thus we will see them again when we enter Heaven? Because it is so hard to picture one's dear Grandma, Mom or Dad etc who loved us so much not make Heaven. One wants to believe that in the last seconds of their lives they did surrender.
And another question I have is do those who only gave a little to serve God enter into Heaven along with those who gave their all to serve the Lord? For we know the Word says that the lukewarm will not enter in.
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Permalink Reply by Bible Sword Words on
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My mother is old with dementia & my sister has cancer. My mother is Catholic, my sister is New Age. What about my ex-wife a Jehovah Witness, most friends of the family that don't go to any churches? I worry about them. Part of me feels like they are good people & will make it to heaven some how. Another part thinks God might have mercy on them, but maybe not. Only a few people might be saved compared to the lost, but how can we know? Like you said at their last moments (thief on the cross) they may ask Jesus to accept them.
I was "discussing" Christianity with a middle aged Muslim couple & they have better morals about sex, fidelity in marriage, raising their kids with kindness & intelligence than most Christians. Sorry, but it's true. And yet good works, peace & happiness without Jesus as your savior, might not get you into the pearly gates. On the other hand I speculate: If they weren't raised Muslims, weren't brainwashed or had a vision of Jesus would they accept his offer of salvation? What if they lived a short life & didn't have a chance to study Christianity could God hold that against them? If God opened their eyes & they rejected him, yes they'd go to hell, but....they're such nice people. I have a hard time telling anyone,
"Jesus is the only way to go to Heaven, if you reject him you'll go to hell!"
This makes me worry that I'm ashamed of the concept of Hell, of Jesus & of being an arrogant Christian. No one else is afraid to tell me or imply that Islam or meditation or Billy Grahams Sinner's Prayer, & Protestantism are the only ways to heaven. I usually say,
" Jesus said it and I can't go against him or the Bible."
I like the Catholic Church & see good points in many churches. Sometimes a Christian is in the wrong church to help others find the right way...but I'm going on & on. I don't have a church & frankly I'm not sure if I'm a moderate or conservative Christian. I guess we can't worry about someone's choice, if we tell them point blank,
"Ask Jesus to save you & give up your ways & choose his. If you don't you might wind up in a real Hell."
At least then I won't have the guilt about not telling them.
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Hi BSW,
I like you post- lots of good thoughts. Re your first paragraph, I believe what the Bible says about the narrow road and how few will enter Heaven compared to the many who are travelling the wide road that leads to destruction. I also believe that if a person sincerely turns to Christ on his death bed, not just to slip into Heaven after a lifetime of rebellion, that God will honor that. Also, I believe there are instances where one has just not realized what salvation is yet through no fault of their own and they will not be denied salvation if they turn to Christ at the last second.. But in most cases, I believe that everyone, even those in darkest Africa where a missionary has never gone, have had many chances to turn to God but choose to reject Him. Have you ever had the Holy Spirit speak into your spirit? He speaks into mine every single day many times a day. Therefore, I believe He speaks to everyone in this world so no one can use the excuse that they did not know about God. Also, the Bible states that we will know that God exists due to His creation all around us. So, it isn't being a good person that saves us, but trusting in God through Christ's atonement for our sins. Getting back to what I was saying, who is to say that God Almighty can not whisper in a person's ear that He is Jesus and He is the Answer.. God can do anything and will do everything possible to reach each person. But they have a free will to respond.
You go on to speak about Muslims and how ppl in such religions are brainwashed. Again, they might be brainwashed, but that does not stop God from getting through to them. If a person no matter what their situation wants truth, I believe God will get right through to them. and you should never be afraid to tell a person the truth. There are more, non-offensive ways to tell ppl the truth, nevertheless even then some, maybe most, will be offended, because the truth is they don't want God. But I believe we must be obedient to always tell ppl the truth.
And you are right, we will be very guilty if we do not always witness the truth to ppl. We are not responsible to save ppl, we can't, that is God's job in conjuntion with their willingness to come to Him. But we are called to be His witnesses. Witnessing is not an option- it is a commandment. It is not only for bold believers, but for ALL believers!
When I was saved, I had a tremendous salvation experience. I was not raised in the Church, but always loved God. I would search for Him everywhere, because no one taught me how to know Him and I knew I must find Him. One day, I finally found Him! When the person who witnessed to me explained the gospel, he didn't have to twist my arm as occurs with so many to turn to Christ. My eyes flew open and I begged him to tell me what I needed to do!! The second I realized who Jesus is, I was blown away to think that someone could love everyone in the world so much. I could not understand how everyone would not be as touched as I was. I was so excited that day, that I jumped for joy and went running down the street to tell every single person I saw about Jesus. 99.9% treated me like I was crazy, but I didn't care. No sir, I was going to tell the whole world about this wonderful Jesus I found. I was so high I was witnessing like that for months.
About a week later, I went to my first ever church service. Again, I was so excited. and I asked another girl who had been saved much longer than me if my exuberance was ever going to wear off. She said something like oh yeah you'll come back down to earth like the rest of us. I then told her, please don't say that- I feel so much peace that I don't ever want to come down !!!!
But as I attended church, I kept hearing things like you should witness like this or like that or not at this time or that time, and it began to make me doubt my ability to witness. So, for a long time, I just kept going to church and studying the Word. Then, one day, I finally got my exhuberance back again when I realized the Word was saying that we should always be ready to give a witness to those we encounter.
Ever since then, I got it back and God called me to be a street witness. Actually, I am a beach witness lol, because I love to go to the beach and God made that my main witnessing field, as well as anywhere else I go in the course of my day. Even then, I said God how am I going to do this? I am good at having a converstion with a person when I get to know them, but I don't really have the gift of striking up a conversation with a person I don't know. To that the Lord said basically, no problem, if I call you I will equip you!
Then the most amazing thing happened. I would just be sitting in my beach chair reading or praying and ppl would approach me. They would stand right in front of me like they were lost. They didn't know why they were there, but I did. It was because God was sending them right to me! I didn't even need to approach them, because He would send them to me the majority of the time!! But I also was given the gift to approach ppl and start a conversation bringing it around to their need for Christ, because the Lord gave me the words to say that were from Him that I could of never thought of on my own to say.
So never be afraid to witness Christ to others. God will back you up and you will feel great peace due to being used of Him. There is no other way to Heaven other then through Christ. It is our job to let all we meet know the truth to spare their lives from Hell. What they do with it is their choice.
so yes, I believer God wants everyone of His children to be his witness. We should never be afraid of ashamed to speak up for Him. When I am not witnessing, I feel miserable- every believer is born to witness. I know God understand when I am nnot feeling well or something preventing me from witnessing directly to a person, bujt I can always offer up a prayer for their salvbation. Buyt most of the timem I advidly wintess. it is my natue now and should be like that for every believer.
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oops sorry for the typos in the last paragraph. Someone called me on the phone and I did not finish editing in time. Hope you can understand what a wrote.
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Dear Jane Smith,
Wow, you're a poster child for Christianity!! I was just reading about discipleship last night, but I feel inadequate to evangelize & teach people about Jesus. After 40 years I'm just getting back to the fundamentals of Christianity I still know very few Bible quotes & I've read the Bible about seven times & the rest of the time studied or meditated on it. Let's say I have a bad memory.
I want to warn everyone now that liberal ideas can damage your confidence in the truths that Jesus taught & leave you confused as to what people are actually being saved from.
- If anyone can be saved, then why bother to preach or lovingly tell someone about Jesus, they might be saved without him. Now I know that that is a deception of the Bible to stop the message of Jesus from being told. Jesus said to go into all the world.
- I started to believe that the Bible wasn't accurate scientifically, psychologically or technologically. Who will believe in Jesus if the main source of detailed information about him is in the Bible and that is a myth or full of errors? For salvation, the spiritual life, & direction from God the Bible is the only true Word.
- I wondered if the Bible is out of date. They didn't have statistically reliable experiments, double-blind control studies & birth control pills in Jesus' day, so maybe Jesus wants us to balance our lives with sin, Bible & church. That's dangerous, because you can't witness about Jesus if you're sinning like everyone else. Who will feel convicted of sin by a fellow sinner? Great sinners suspect they're bound for Hell, but you have the antidote.
- I feel after 40 years of study I'm still not able to present, defend or teach the Gospel accurately. Maybe God doesn't want me to make a fool of myself & make a mockery of his truths.
I feel that I should just say, "Jesus is the only way to get God to forgive your sins & get you into Heaven. Religion, any religion, will improve your life, but it can't save you only Jesus can." I could tell them to check out this or that website, book or church. I could even offer to give them a Bible study every two weeks & carefully prepare one. It would have to be with their guarantee that they wouldn't argue with me but listen & ask honest questions & be willing to wait until I found the chapter & verse or commentary explanation for it. If you have further advice for me, thank you.
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