All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Marriage Problem
A Christian wife wants to know:
Her husband tells her he is unsure of his salvation, because "something" blocks him from fully surrendering to God. And he tells her that he is not comfortable having home Bible study with her , because she is more spiritual than him. She has done everything she knows to do to be a good wife and he admits the problem is his, but will not open up.
She wants to know if these are excuses/lying, because he does not choose to surrender to God, or if he is telling her the truth? They have counseled with a pastor and Christian friends on several occasions, but her husband says that no one has told him anything so far that helps him see what is wrong and what to do.
Are there any men here, or wives who have been through this, that have any godly counsel for this couple?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Jane Smith on
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Have a little update. With the program the husband is going to, both husband and wife are asked to write an initial paper where he says why he wants to come to the program and she answers various questions. They both then speak to a counselor individually by phone. I thought this was good because this husband, and this is often the case, is so good at fooling ppl. Everyone thinks he is the greatest guy except his family who knows how he acts at home with them. And even they don't know the real person he is, because he has hidden everything from them until now.
After speaking with the counselor, the wife was told that unsaved men are very depraved. They are into all kinds of secret sin. This helped the wife to feel better, because it seemed her marital problems were so severe, but according to the counselor, all the men they see have severe problems, some far worse then theirs.
And the counselor said they break them down so don't expect much of a change for the first 3 months- that is if the husband chooses to change. By "break them down" she meant that they are in so much denial, so blinded by the devil that they can't see themselves as they are- it is like they are brainwashed. The counselors are experienced in helping open their eyes if they choose to see.
The men are not allowed visitors, phone calls, privileges until they earn it. They teach them discipline in studying the Word and facing their sin. Wondering if when you went to counselors Wicus if it was this intense? This is the way most of the U. S faith-based programs are run. The counselors say the men get out of it what they put into it. Know no man will surrender unless he wants to and the time is right, but do you think this sounds like a godly approach to providing real help and support to men?
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Know no man will surrender unless he wants to and the time is right, but do you think this sounds like a godly approach to providing real help and support to men?
No this is arecipe for disaster.........
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Please explain why you feel this way. I spoke to a number of men that went through programs like this and they told me it saved their lives. Yes, there are a % that go to the programs and don't surrender. But there are many testimonies of men who say this is exactly what helped them.
I met a Christian brother recently who has a street ministry. He told me he himself was saved through a faith-based program that helped him to face his issues and turn his life around, Now, he is on the staff of a program that has locations in a number of states and they are helping men get set free from sin.
Wicus got saved when he went to a men's retreat, so not sure what you are saying here. You didn't reply to my previous email yet about how a mother is to protect her children if she separates from her husband, so please reply to that first so I can understand your answer here.
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Hi Wicus,
I am replying to your post of today under Hantie's post as the reply bar is missing again. Hate that this has to be out of order.
You have the wrong idea of the faith-based programs here. The men know they are there to work on their problem. As you know, the main problem is sin and not having a true relationship with God They are not forced to go there -they willingly go, and they can drop out any time they want if they choose to. They know going in that they are there to study with other men who are having similar problems so they can all learn about God and understand what they have to do to get in right relationship with Him in order to conquer their past issues and be restored to their families. They do exactly what you described you experienced, but it is a longer program than a short retreat. They are asked to focus on the program so the rule is not to get into diversions until they are stronger and can handle themselves responsibly. No one is locked up, forced to sit in a circle and say they love God. They are taught to study the word and each man has his own individual counselor if he wants to discuss his progress. -
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Hi Wicus,
LOL I finally figured out that the return bar at this group works differently then at most groups I am in.
I was in a rush yesterday when I wrote my post. Let me add a little more about faith-based groups. The counselor said that most of the men who come to their program are extremely filled with false pride and are very selfish. That is why it takes time to get through to them.
In speaking with counselors at other faith-based programs I looked into for another person I was ministering to a number of months ago, they told me that many men who are in their programs had so messed up their lives that they were in trouble with the law and coming to the program was a last ditch effort to avoid jail or save their marriages. Many are addicted to drugs, alcohol, porn or other sexual sin. They are given rules to abide by as many have never learned how to be responsible and they are very weak when it comes to compromising with others who wrongly influence them.
Like I said , no one forces them to come to the programs. But once they decide they want to try it out, there has to be rules. Obviously, satan would influence their progress if they were allowed to connect with wrong outside influences. In a way it is a form of rehab, but not a bad form. They are prisoners of sin and just like in a prison or rehab, they can not be allowed to connect with wrong influences. They are there to make progress not play around. The program is everything that goes on in a retreat plus more. A % are changed forever through turning to Christ and a % drop out, but that is to be expected.
Re the husband that is having problems, there are a couple of things he does and I wonder if you experienced the same. He says that every time he tries to connect with God he feels blocked and can't get over the hurdle. Then the other thing is, although he is the one that is hurting others, he sees himself as the victim. Did you used to feel this way?
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Hi Hantie,
It is so nice to meet you. I understand what you are saying and the wife I am writing for understands. She is not a new Christian and has listened to God very carefully every step of her marriage. Unfortunately she jumped ahead of God when she first married which opened the door for so many problems. But she has prayed just as you say for years and now there may finally be a breakthrough.
I believe when we pray humbly and in accordance with God's will, we give Him every chance to work in our lives. But it does not guarantee that a husband will ever turn to the Lord, because God gave each person a free will. You are very fortunate that Wicus responded to God through your prayers and is on the right path now.
Most women with unsaved husbands are not as fortunate. I have known some of the most loving Christian wives who married a man they thought was saved, because they were babes in Christ when they first married and had no idea their boyfriend was faking being saved. I have heard many such men say their wife was a saint. That's why they married them, because they wanted a godly Christian wife. That is a trophy for any man- the problem is, the men so often misrepresnt themselves and are not the godly Christain man the wife thinks she is getting.
When my friend met her husband to be they seemed to have a lot in common. They were both raised in Christian homes, in fact his father was a pastor, they both were home schooled, they liked many of the same things and had similar views on how to raise children and how they wanted to live. But soon after the marriage, he showed another side. Many Christian women find themselves in this position.
Wicus has been doing a very commendable job of answering my questions for which I am very grateful and I have learned some things from him that I did know before. I know a lot about these matters, but I don't know everything. The idea occurred to me to ask those who have been through this to teach me something I do not yet know. My friend has gone through a lot and does not have time due to her family situation to write for herself. I am hoping more will enter the thread and lend their ideas too.
God Bless You also,
Jane
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Hantie,
Good word. It does give one a jolt when one realizes after praying, thinking, acting in a particular manner, that we had things wrong and we realize we were in error in our thinking. I had that happen to me but my husband had passed away before I could talk to him about it. My only hope now is that the Holy Spirit spoke to my husband about my errors and corrected my words to him before he passed.
Bout time Wicus let you get on here and chat with us! ;)
Blessings to you both,
Rita
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Hi Wicus,
Glad you understand what I mean about the faith-based groups now. Your newest responses help me a lot. On the part about not being able to reach God due to guilt and shame, did it ever get even worse for you to where you could hear demons talking to you and blocking you from trying to reach out to God? This is what the husband described. If the man went to a secular psychiatrist, he would probably say he was schizophrenic, but we who know the Lord understand the spiritual warfare that goes on for men's souls and when one opens himself up to sin demons can attack his mind.
On my other question, I see what you mean about why the victim mentality occurs. This makes sense to me. For yrs., this wife took her husband at his word, married him in the first place when she was a baby Christian believing everything he said. But as the years went by, she could see he was very immature, compromising, inconsistent, was selfish, would make up stories etc etc. When she finally got to the point that she began confronting his inconsistencies, it was at that point that he developed the victim mentality. It was like he was wearing a mask and fought tooth and nail for that mask not to come off. And again, I understand that because you explained that in one of your previous posts. So what I would like to ask you now is can you be more specific about what you felt when you were going through the stage where you felt like you had become the victim?
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I had posed the question can demons block a person from coming to God. I had thought that is not possible, too, so I spoke with several believers in deliverance ministries. They told me, a person can be so tied up in Knots by demonic forces that they need to be delivered before their will is free to choose. It would be like in the Bible where Jesus had to deliver the demoniac before he was in his right mind. No one had to deliver me to choose Christ, but I was not in a pit of sin that was so deep that I could not get out, so I have felt it important to check out the husband's claims to see if it is bogus or true.
Also, the husband had a very abusive childhood, much more so than someone who may of gone through some unfair situations growing up, but wasn't severely abused. I believe no demon in hell can stop someone from turning to God if one chooses God, but what I am trying to figure out is, are there circumstances when one's will can be blocked and needs to be ministered to in order to be free to choose God? Let's say a person has a severe inability to trust due to past abuse, is his will still free?
I see what you mean about how the victim mentality works thank you. I ran across one of your old posts where you stated that your particular sexual sin was a lust for the female body, if I understood you correctly. The husband told his wife that he is not deep into porn and does not have affairs so she doesn't have to worry about that he said. He said his problem is just what you described, that he is obsessed with checking out womens's bodies. He said if a woman is pretty he doesn't flirt with her, but if a woman is less attractive that is the type he will flirt with. He also said he checks out every woman and girl he sees, but does not let anyone know he is doing it especially if the woman is very pretty. Since I am learning that there are different types of sexual sin, do you know what this particular problem means and how it gets started?
Another question I have is how common is it for men to get into pornography or sexual sin because they were molested when they were a child?
Next question would be, when you were cheating and involved in porn, lust etc., did you ever have a feeling of false pride and superiority that you were good at lying and getting away with your sin?
Another question is, I read where you and others said that every day or every so many months, you are tempted again, so much so, that you still struggle. Temptation will never go away, but when a person is delivered of a sin shouldn't one get victory in that area? For ex. say one gets delivered of drugs, should it still be a temptation if someone offers him a joint, or should the power of drugs be broken in his life?
And on the subject of accountability, is it a fair thing for a wife to have to monitor everything the husband does so he doesn't return to his sin? Should that be on the wife's shoulders when she has so much to deal with already to get over her husband's betrayal and learn to trust him again? I viewed a talk show recently on pornography and the host who is a psychologist said, it is unfair for wives to monitor their husbands, that what is happening is the husbands are turning to their addiction out of stress, using the addiction to relieve the stress. So, he said the husbands with this issue need to go to counseling to understand what the stress is that caused them to turn to sexual sin in the first place. Now I know you said you turned to sexual sin out of peer pressure and I'm sure that is the case for many. But once into it, even if stress was not the initial cause. I can see how it becomes a stress reliever and a source of selfish pleasure. So, should it be put on a wife to monitor her husband or should it be his responsibility to learn to monitor himself with the help of a counselor? If he gets weak, he can call for prayer. But coming back to my previous question, if God has set him free from his sin why would all this even be necessary?
One day very recently, the husband and wife went to a quiet restaurant alone to discuss their marital situation. After they had been in the restaurant for about an hour discussing their marriage, a teenage girl came in with a very short mini-skirt. The husband took his wife by the hand and told her they needed to leave immediately as he could not stop himself from lusting at the teenager. His wife got upset since they were in the middle of discussing their problems when this occurred, and she was shocked to hear her husband say this. He then told her, " well you want me to tell you when I am having a problem and I thought it was the right thing to do to leave the restaurant rather then get caught up in lust for the teenager." What is your take on this situation?
And finally, do you believe in the spiritual experience called the Baptism in the Holy Spirit for it is the Spirit that leads us and guides us into all truth and it is the truth ( knowing and applying God's Word) that sets us free. None of us can get free of sin on our own- we all need the power, wisdom and knowledge of the Holy Spirit to defeat sin.
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HI Wickus,
In speaking with some people who have experienced sexual abuse, unlike other forms of abuse, they said that their whole world was turned upside down. They said they were so lost that it took them years to understand concepts that most understand when growing up. It was like they had to grow up all over again. It took excruciatingly hard work, but in the end they finally found God. So this is why I asked do you think it could be possible that for someone like this their will could be blocked. Also, physical and emotional abuse ranges in severity so could it be possible that those who suffered the severest forms of abuse could be blocked from opening up to trust God until the time is right for them?
You said you were over focused on woman's bodies because you were never satisfied, but why womans' bodies, why not something else? Does it come back to this thing of scantily dressed women everywhere and the influence of pornography and some men just have a weakness in this area as opposed to something else?
Thank you for the many insightful answers you provide in your latest post that further help me see what sexual sin is about. Certainly there are cases where the wife is the one who is deep into grievous sin while the husband is the one who is in the position of frantically wondering and worrying at his wits end what the wife is hiding and why she is doing what she is doing. But more often it is the husbands who are in the depths of sin. Have you ever asked yourself why some, usually men, fall to such depths while others, more often women, do not? Though none are immune to sin, those of us who look on at those who are so deeply enmeshed can not even imagine what it is like. Can you say more about the healing that occurs within marriage when the husband finally is being restored through coming to Christ? Please describe how trust is restored when it had previously been utterly demolished?
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Hi Jane,
I would like to comment on the trust issue.
As a wife who was hurt real bad - broken emotianally, not only verbally but in Wicus' actions as well, the following.
Nobody can just turn around and trust another human being ( not only husbands but all other people) after being ground to emotional dust. Getting up and continuing everyday is a slow and painful process. Healing starts only with forgiveness. Ask the Lord's forgiveness first. One has to forgive oneself at first for being so stupid as to fall in love with someone who hurt you, then for feeling guilty about feeling stupid, then for allowing the enemy into your heart with all the emotional baggage that he bestowes on you, feelings of worthlessness and not being good enough. Our gracious Father never ever made any worthless creature (or man..:-)) Only after complete forgiveness of your own heart will you be able to forgive others. Ps146 v 3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. Trust should only be towards God and if He is trusted with all your heart and soul, trust will return in the husband because you pray for him and believe that our wonderful Father will work in his heart and will speak to his heart. We as woman can never ever change someone we can only pray for their salvation and we have to do this non stop and diligently. We need to seek the company of our Father non stop and hand everything over no matter how small or how big. If we share every little detail of our lives with Him of every day, we find rest in our souls.
Hope this helps.
God bless
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HI Hantie,
You are so right that forgiveness is key. The way I look at forgiveness is how could I ever refuse to forgive someone who wrongs me when Jesus gave his life to die for my sins against God. But my question was more about trust. I feel a husband who has so grievously broken his wife's trust must work hard to prove to her that he is a new man. I was looking for more, practical ways this occurs. Because a wife will think-- he lied before how do I know he is not lying now.
And I guess the difference in you and me is you believe, if I understand you correctly, that any wife in an unequally yoked marriage who learns to put her trust in God will see her husband turn to God with the marriage restored. I feel that she will be restored to peace whether the marriage makes it or not, but I do not believe it guarantees that the husband will surrender to God. That's why I said previously that I am so happy for you that Wicus did respond to God, but that doesn't mean most husbands will. I am going to be writing a post soon about the false expectations ppl have about marriage in another thread and you will understand more of my thinking on this subject. It has to do with the fact that most ppl think they are nothing unless they are married and happily so. But Paul said it is better to be single. Seems like a crazy statement- no one wants that right? The post will be about what it means to learn to do the will of God to the exclusion of what we selfishly want from life, and I know you are all 4 that. So look 4 it soon probably in the submission thread.
God Bless!
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