All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Atheist and Christians
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by lazurm on
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It's probably closer to the truth that the origin of Atheist's beliefs are varied.
1. An Atheist's view doesn't need God to explain things and they may be OK with the notion of living with things not explained, either yet or ever.
2. An Atheist's view is, as you've written, that God has not been satisfactorally proved and, so, there is no reason to believe in the concept.
3. An Atheist's view defaults because all the reasons given have not been satisfactory on many levels, from the psychological to the dogmatic.
4. An Atheist is not satisfied with believing in God when that belief is solely based on faith. Faith, therefore, is not an option for something so important.
5. An Atheist's view may come about from an early time in life, from those who are important (parents, friends, etc.) and, so, belief in a God has never been an orientation.
6. An Atheist's view may come from a realization that there is no after life, that upon death our conscious reality disappears and our body recycles, the proof being that this is what is seen.
7. An Atheist may, in studying the evolution of scientific thought, come to realize that man is not the center of the universe, not special (as mankind learned that the universe does not revolve around Earth, that our solar system is but one of trillions, that our galaxy is one of hundreds of billions and that our Universe itself may be one of an almost infinite variety in a "Multiverse" reality). Therefore the idea that a God would care about this tiny speck, that He would come to Earth, as if it was so important, is much too ethnocentric to be acceptable.
8. An Atheist may believe that the variety of religions are self contradictory and contrastingly contradictory, or worse, and may therefore reject them as incomplete in explaining both the natural and inner world, having concluded that the after life is ill defined and, therefore, impossible to both understand and/or accept, due to its nebulously defined nature.
9. An Atheist may observe that religious people can be morally corrupt and, therefore, he/she rejects religion as a successful philosophy, becoming thereby something more akin to a, say, Humanistic Secularist which has a, in their view, more practical and easier to understand and accept concept.
10. An Atheist may believe that faith is unreliable and, therefore, not acceptable enough to live one's life by.
11. An Atheist may believe that reality is material and therefore rejects the supernatural.
There are almost as many reasons as there are Atheists and it's really not a good idea to simplify their reasons. I could easily double this list but, you get the idea.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Joshua,
Christianity is pretty simple in it's claim that is from the Bible. The Bible teaches that faith in Christ is the only way to be saved eternally and to live eternally int he presence of God. When we understand the Bible we are left with the following. Either the Bible is true and Jesus is the only way makng all other religions wrong or Christianity is wrong and maybe some other religion is right (or none). Blending simply is not possible. On your quest you need to research a couple of simple things. Research what these other religions believe about their god, humanity and life after death. Here is one article on Budhism http://www.gotquestions.org/Buddhism.html
Lord Bless,
LT
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Joshua,
The Bible is right, and everyone else is wrong. There is a difference between saying Christians are right and saying that God is right and that we follow the living God revealed in the Bible. For in the Bible God reveals the way to being saved and establishing a living relationship with the living God.
Lord Bless,
LT
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It seems to me, though, that the biggest problem is in the interpretation of the Bible, hence, the many variant sects within Christianity. Ultimately they are together in the belief in God and Jesus. Still, if the Bible is true, what about the variety of ways in which certain aspects of the Bible are interpreted? For instance, some Christian faiths interpret that it's OK for a priest to marry, others do not. This coming from their interpretations. Divorce is another example and their are numerous, other, examples ranging, usually, in practices and how one is to live one's life while still being Godly. It's not simple, at least not from my viewpoint.
Evolution, as but one more example, has not been clarified in the Bible and, therefore, we have debate among those who consider themselves believers. The same can be said for the evolution of our Universe, its age and so forth.
In terms of being on topic, this confusion, doubt, what-have-you, has resulted in people leaving the belief, as manifested in the Bible, with many coming to their own ideas in this regard (resulting in debates and worse), even leaving the belief due to the confusion based on the many interpretations. Each interpretor stating that THEIR interpretation is the only valid one.
Why should there be room for interpretation at all? How is one to decipher between them all?
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A simple response #1 ... Man is in error at times, but God and His Word are never wrong.
A simple response #2 ... Man who leaves over man's confusion never knew Jesus and experienced being born again, or he is in rebellion for a season or has been deceived for a season. This knowledge of God is both intellectual and experiential.
A simple response #3 ... Too many people take preferences and attempt to turn them into doctrines.
These debates do not disprove God or the Bible. It just proves man is fallible
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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Lazurm, you have two totally different topics going here. They weave together, but are distinct.
The first is the authenticity, reliability and veracity of the Bible. In other words: is the Bible authentically the Word of God - is it true? Regardless of what any ten blind men may say, I will stake my life on the Word of God. There is no other book like it, there never has been and there never will be. This book is a unique messaging system from God to all of humanity. It has secrets, power and revelation that few of us have any understanding of, and which none of us fully has a grasp of.
Some points to ponder:
1. It is not the interpretation of the Bible by men that counts, but rather it is what the Bible says about itself that counts. I don't care how educated, or renown a person is: if they interpret the Bible in a way that contradicts what the Bible itself says about itself, then they are mistaken.
2. The Bible itself takes command of the issues of all of life and dictates truth in a way that no other document can. This book knows the end from the beginning, it is a living active vibrant revelation that actually interacts with the reader. It is the essence of spirituality to seek it's mysteries and to obey it's commands. No other document is like it.
3. The Bible itself declares anyone who refuses to accept it's authority to be a fool and pronounces judgment upon them. So, the only confusion is with those who refuse to heed the call of Scripture itself.
The second issue you mention is that "Evolution... has not been clarified in the Bible". There is one simple reason for that: Evolution is not true. You see, there was one eye witness to creation's beginning and He has given us his testimony. Everything else is speculation.
Creation has purpose, given to it by the Creator. Evolution is about chance; Evolution is a theory about randomness and purposeless events that somehow coincide "miraculously" without any direction. Now, God admits to us that there is an appearance of randomness in nature. But, over and over again scientists dig deeper and find that what appears to be random at one level pans out to be guided, organized and even "caused" at another level - just as God has told us all along. Unfortunately, most people never see the forest because they are focused only on one tree at a time.
I will take the testimony of the only witness to whole events of creation: the Creator Himself.
I will also take the interpretation of the book from it's author. He alone knows what He intended when He gave it to us. Everything else is speculation.
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Hi Scribe,
In reply:
1. The problem with saying that words don't depend on the reader's interpretation is that the words don't have any meaning except if there's someone reading them and interpreting them. It's a logical fallacy to say otherwise. In fact, the main issue the various sects have is exactly with what the words mean.
For instance, the word "day" in Genesis. Is it a 24 hour day? Why? It's been shown that the day length on Earth is increasing. There's physical reasons for this (tidal friction and other reasons) and it's been shown that at one time the Earth's day was as short as 18 hours. Or is it a metaphor for a cyclical time? The problem is that the word "day" is not defined strictly in the Bible. And this is only one example. There are many.
Additionally, you state that the Bible, "has secrets, power and revelation that few of us have any understanding of, and which none of us fully has a grasp of." That may be a problem for those who want to understand and therein lies the interpretive quandry, in your words.
2. The Bible may do that, but it may not also. For instance, to say that the Bible takes command of all issues of life ignores those issues that may not be addressed in the Bible. There is little detail that explains, for instance, how God created things except to say that they were created. Perhaps there are those that aren't interested in this mechanism but, to say that it addresses all issues, ignores those that may be interested in this and, therefore, not all issues are addressed. Of course this is, again, but one tiny, but metaphorically important, example. Again, too, the Bible hasn't clarified the sequence of Genesis, and many other things that, at times, are actually stated in contradictory fashion. The contradictions in the Bible are confusing to Biblical scholars and those who want to understand the Bible from heart to head.
3. To fully accept authority one must at least fully understand what the authority is communicating. Blind acceptance works, but is that an optimum choice? Isn't a better choice to understand it all, either by heart or by head, at least?
I only point this out to continue the ideas behind this thread, that is, to illuminate some of the reasons why others may have chosen an atheistic path. Those others may consider the Bible to be internally inconsistant and, therefore, not acceptable compared to their chosen path.
Of course the arguments I presented here are, at best, superficial and barely touch the more complete reasons but those reasons are usually based on similar ideas.
Ultimately, one makes the choice that they are most comforted with and for many reasons.
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Permalink Reply by Larry M. on
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SCIENCE BIBLE
1. Science book view Biblical view
2. Human view GOD - the Creator view
3. To see is to believe view Believed to See view
4. Calculations, measurements, etc. Creations ( Human not
in detailed view monkey nd bacteria, Universe, etc.)
Faith view
( Hebrews 11:1 )
5. Human intelligence view Gods wisdom
( Human intelligence is
foolishness to God )
6. Human works Given by inspiration God
7. Changes Gods word will stand and endure -
from alpha to omega
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