All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
Marriage Problem
A Christian wife wants to know:
Her husband tells her he is unsure of his salvation, because "something" blocks him from fully surrendering to God. And he tells her that he is not comfortable having home Bible study with her , because she is more spiritual than him. She has done everything she knows to do to be a good wife and he admits the problem is his, but will not open up.
She wants to know if these are excuses/lying, because he does not choose to surrender to God, or if he is telling her the truth? They have counseled with a pastor and Christian friends on several occasions, but her husband says that no one has told him anything so far that helps him see what is wrong and what to do.
Are there any men here, or wives who have been through this, that have any godly counsel for this couple?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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Jane,
God will hear and answer EVERY prayer you ask on behalf of your husband. It is vitally important that you pray earnestly for Him. Every time you pray, God will hear and will speak to him through the Holy Spirit. If he is ever to surrender to God, it will be because of prayers spoken on his behalf.
Keep praying...
Rita
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It goes without saying Rita that prayer is constant. It is not my marriage but a Christian sister I know. Wondering if there are any Christians brothers out there who once were in this same position of telling their wives that they wanted to be saved, but felt blocked by something, and telling their wives they could not participate in Bible study with them because they felt their wife was more spiritual then them. Wondering if the men feel that this husband is telling the truth or is just making excuses. It's one thing when a husband is vocal about not wanting Christ, but what does it mean when he says he does but is blocked and won't participate in Bible study with his wife to grow together? I'd like to hear what men who may of previously been like this can counsel. And it is ok if wives who went through this with their husband comment too.
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Hi Wicus,
Ty for being the first brother to reply. You seem to be saying that you thought you were saved, but maybe just had religion, and then when you went to the men's retreat, that was when you actually found Christ for the first time. Were you previously a church goer? What made you go to the men's retreat? Were you serious about finding God or did He just get a hold of you out of his mercy? Why do you think you still battle sometimes? I am very glad for your salvation and any answers you can further provide would be so appreciated. Also, do you think this is a common problem more specific to men running from God preferring sin to a relationship with Him?
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Hi Wicus,
Ok I understand what your life was like until you truly found Christ at the retreat. A lot of people growing up in a churchgoing family think that because they go to church that they are saved. It's like the saying of the Christian singer Keith Green- "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian anymore than going to McDonalds makes you a Big Mac". Then a teen gets out of the church environment he grew up in and enters the "anything goes" world of college or the military and it is natural with so much peer pressure to fall into sin. So, since you had gone to church all your life and began to think you were entitled to sin a little and you'd be ok, what was it about the retreat that caused you to open your eyes to the fact that you were lost and needed to fully commit to Christ? Were you fed up with sin so much so that God could finally reach you through the preaching and teaching at the retreat or was it something else?
At the time that you were AWOL from God living in sin, were you aware of what it was doing to your wife and children? Or did you somehow explain it away to yourself that you were somehow justified.
And you seem to say that men continue in sin even after they are saved until they understand what God wants from them. I hear you saying that men are designed to need a mission, so to speak. Until they are grounded in the Word, they will involve themselves in the wrong mission that prevents them from growing and that harms their family. So then, what prevents them from jumping into the Word and studying it? Is it just a lack of knowledge that this is what they need to do to grow in Christ or are there roadblocks the enemy sets up to keep them out of the Word?
Ty so much for your responses. God's enemy wants to destroy marriages and families and he has done a very good job of it. If you had it to do over what would you advise a Christian wife to do if her husband is not living for God and their marriage is being destroyed?
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Hey Wickus,
Thank God for the retreat that reached you. You seem to be saying that it was more powerful then the typical church services you attended earlier in you life, so this would be a good thing for men to be invited to.
Your next answer was very honest thus helpful that men do know that they are hurting their families when they live in sin, but don't care at the time due to being caught up in self-centered satisfaction. There is no greater pain for wives and kids then not knowing why dad is hurting them. Knowing the truth that dad is trapped in sin is better than constantly wondering what is wrong with dad and why he doesn't stop. This way they know that dad is spiritually entrapped and not just hurting them for no reason at all.
I agree that growing in Christ is a process. Yes, everyone who turns to Christ still sins, but there should no longer be the practice of sin. By that I mean, I believe when a person is truly saved he will then hate the things he once loved, because he will not be able to bear to offend his Lord. But it is a process knowing which things are worldly and which things lead to godliness. That is where the re-training comes in and that takes time. Also, he will learn not to entertain sin in his mind, because the next step is going across the line and justifying ungodly behavior once again.
I recently had the opportunity to speak with couples of which the husbands had gone to faith-based programs that were even more intensive then a short retreat. They were there for months, not just a few days. They all said they had a great experience there, yet before long many of them had gotten back into the sin they were in before they entered the programs sort of like an addict relapsing and many of the marriages have broken up.
I know in my own life when I found Christ, I had an instant knowing about the more major sins, not that God looks at one sin as being any worse than another, that they were lies from God's enemy, so I committed to not participate in any such obvious compromises again. So, if a husband really finds Christ are you saying that he might still relapse back into strong sin, because the sin had such a stronghold on him and there are so many temptations before him that he might fall again until he gets stronger in the Word? Are you saying that it depends on the depth of sin one was previously in as to whether he will fall again into that same sin? The reason I ask my question like this is because I have known men who were into the strongest of sins, but when they came to Christ they quit everything cold turkey and happily began their new mission for Christ. But then other men seem to say that even though they really did find Christ they could not keep from falling into their old sin pattern again. If you understand what I mean what do you think the difference is?
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Hey W,
I so agree with your first point that most ppl find it too hard to seek God. The Word says there are few that travel the narrow road. And there are lots of insecure men out there, women too, but for the sake of this discussion, I am speaking mainly about men here. And if one but just thinks about it, God's enemy puts scantily dressed women everywhere to entrap men from the time they are young boys into manhood. In fact, I just recently discovered what a serious entrapment this is for Christian men and how many Christian men are into pornography. I mean I knew non-believer men were yielded to these temptations, but I had no idea how prevalent it was among Christian men.
How much would you say the course you took after the retreat helped you? Would you highly recommend it to other men? In having your wife as your accountability partner have you been 100% honest with her? I mean a Christian man should be honest with his wife at all times, but isn't this the same wife you were not honest with before? Is it more common for wives to be the accountability partner rather then a brother in the Lord?
Now that you have finished the courses, do you have any plans for how you are going to keep yourself in the Word and accountable next? Are you saying that men who are more prone to insecurity and compromise are the type that need heavy accountability? Because like I said I know men who get saved and are gung ho now to live for God without so much supervision. They will say that they lived strongly for the devil and now they are even more geared up to live for God.
If most men are as weak-willed as you say, it would seem that women should not be so fast to get married, But that is another subject.
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Jane,
What this man needs to understand is there are only two choices.... God or Satan, two destinations....Heaven or Hell.
We all will choose during our lifetime. Choose Christ or remain where we were born. Maybe the wife needs to explain this to the husband and then let him think about that for awhile. It sounds like he thinks that God will save him without him getting off the fence, but we know that isn't true. Maybe she needs to pray and not say any more to him for awhile.
*You can lead a horse to water but you can not make him drink.*
Her situation is in my prayers...
Rita
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Rita,
She has already tried that long ago. Her husband knows the choices since he was raised in church. He says he wants what is right but sinful practices he got into similar to Wickus are holding him back. TY though for keeping this couple in your prayers. This husband needs to be delivered and that is why I am asking husbands and wives too who have been through this what men are actually thinking when they are unable to get free. I'm asking is it as simple as the choice to be free giving God their permission to set them free, or is it that plus a process of breaking old sin patterns.
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Hi Wicus,
For some odd reason I could not post under your last post. The reply bar was not showing so I am posting here instead.
I am wondering how you made the leap from not being honest with Hantie to becoming totally transparent? As I previously stated, marriage is supposed to be based on honesty. From what I observe, however, most often it is the husband that is not honest with his wife. It is usually only when the husband is an on-fire Christian that he is diligent to be honest with his wife.
As far as your last main paragraph, I didn't fully understand everything you were saying about the wedding cake remark, so could you say that again please? But then you said that men cheat and get into an addictive lifestyle because they are not fulfilled in the bedroom. Therefor, you said wives must be accountable for their part of the problem. I think you also said in a previous email that the problem isn't fully the husband's and wives must be willing to see their part in the situation.
At this point I am confused, because didn't you say that essentially, you had a problem and the problem was that you were not really saved and it was only after you went to the retreat that your life began to turn around? Your situation is not identical to the couple I am seeking help for. You seem to say that neither you or Hantie were saved initially. In the situation I am sharing, the wife is a godly Christian and her husband is the one who is unsaved. His issues are very much like yours, but he is not at the point yet where he has gone to a retreat. He wants to, but hasn't taken the step yet.
It goes without saying that both husband and wife in a marriage must be humble to work on the marriage problems. But in the case I am speaking of, the husband owns the problem. He is not acting ungodly because his wife has done something to him or hasn't met his needs. He is acting ungodly, because he is admitting now that he is not truly saved, has been hiding issues from his past, and is ready to become honest now and go to a retreat or other program where he can find help to surrender to God and learn how to be a godly Christian husband.
The husband is not into affairs, but he recently admitted to his wife that he has had a problem with pornography and lusts after every female he sees from children on up. They have been married for 10 yrs and his wife had never noticed him flirting with other women and there has never been porn of any kind in their home. He admitted that when he goes to the gas station he sneaks a look at naked women on porn magazine covers just in passing. And he admitted that he has secretly flirted with women and checked them out. He said he is attracted to women and even young girls and lusts after them. He even said he has lustful thoughts re their daughters.
Naturally, this was a big shock to his wife. Similar to you, he spent time in the military where he said porn was rampant and his buddies were always receiving pics of naked girls via the net. But he said his problem began as a young boy when his older brother introduced him to porn magazines. He also got into heavy drinking when he was in the military and often had blackouts not knowing what he had done. He has never indugled in alcohol in all the yeasr they have been married. There was no alchohol at their wedding- only sparkling apple juice. So, naturally the wife is reeling from his giant confession and feels there could be even more he has been hiding. She feels the need to keep a watchful eye on their daughters in regard to their own father.
They are not on bad terms and he is gearing up to get the help he needs with his wife's support. But I am making the point that the problem was his, not hers. How can a wife work with her husband until she knows what the problem is? They have counseled with pastors, Christian friends and so on, but the problem was he wasn't telling the truth about what he was hiding. And when he says now he wants to change, but something is blocking him from fully surrendering to God, again it is his problem, but his wife is fully willing to help get him to someone who can help him whether that is a retreat or something similar.
Does a husband have a right to cheat on his wife because he does not feel fulfilled in the bedroom? You seem to say men cheat because it is the wife's fault. Whatever the situation, cheating is wrong. Even if a husband doesn't cheat through affairs like the husband I am speaking about, it is still cheating when one feeds his addiction by lusting after females other then one's wife. It's very sick behavior not to mention ungodly. So not sure what you mean when you keep emphasizing that a husband's problem is in part due to his wife.
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Hi Wicus,
ok I can see here that you are saying that the Lord restored you when you got saved and made you into a man who could be honest with your wife- that all it took was a renewed heart. That's wonderful.
I found it most Interesting for two reasons that you commented that men are the hunters in a relationship. First of all, yes, men have been made to be hunters due to human nature and society. But I for one have learned that this is totally out of God's will. I studied this once and God lead me to a book called, "I Kissed Datinng Goodbye" by Josh Harris. Maybe you have heard of it? Actually, God first showed me that the whole way Chrisitians go about finding a spouce is against God's way in the Word. We are not supposed to date ppl and try them out to see if we like them., God wants to lead us to the spouce He has for us, but since most new believers don't know how to listen to Him and date just like unsaved ppl do, that is why so many Christian marriages have trouble and end in divorce.
Then when you say that men date and marry a woman and then forget that they are married and keep hunting for another woman, that is really crazy sounding. You can't be serious?! Any guy who would do that surely isn't a Chrisitan. Probably that's what you meant. It is just hard to imagine that men could be so callous, but without God in their lives they don't think straight if I understand you correctly. Most decent girls, Christian or not, simply want to marry a decent guy. But from what you seem to say, unsaved men are so messed up, the women are marrying psychos unknowingly. Tell me that's not what you are saying, but it sounds like it lol!
Then you make the point that when a husband is hiding things out of fear that his wife will find out who he really is and reject him, and about how terrifying it is for his secret to get out to others, I completely understand. But we all must come to the cross if we want real relationships. My point is that this should not have to go on and on with a husband becomming even more destructive until his marriage and family is falling apart. There should be ways to get help sooner.
Re the husband mentioned, no one is forcing him to go to a retreat. Please re-read my last post. He accepts that he must go somewhere to get help as his wife has given many years of her life to stand by him with his hidden problems that he said he had no idea what was wrong with him when he really did. But now, she is at the end of her rope having given up the best years of her life and can not let it affect her and their children anymore. So, he has said he is ready to get help. Had she known how to get him to help sooner this might not of dragged out endlessly.
This is similar to ppl who go to drug rehab. It is so sad that it has affected the family for so many years. Sure a wife in this postion must pray but the body of believers should be there to lend support to wives and children in this postion. My friend has been a loyal, loving wife denying her own security and happiness while her husband has been running from God for so many years.
And again, reread my last post. I am saying the same thing you are, that having a secret life of sexual acting out even though a man does not have a physical affair is still just as much sin. A wife, especially a Christian wife, should never put up with the dishonesty and the hiding of secret behavior that husbands are involved in, but husbands like this are deceptive and it takes the wives often years to figure out what is going on.
This is tragic. If there were godly counselors in the body of Christ that husbands and wives could turn to, and I know this is available in some churches,, it would not have to take so long to resolve the husband's problem and get the marriage on the right road. Again, I understand a husband must be willing to surrender to God. But if he is not, should a wife and children suffer endlessly until he is ready? I believe more husbands would surrender to God if the help was there sooner. If it was the other way around, how many husbands do you think would wait for a wife to surrender?
I believe the reason wives stay is because they are terrified that the husband will kidnap or harm the kids. No loving mother can bear that and feels she must protect the kids at all costs. So, she and the kids become hostages, essentially. Pastors and Christian friends, while well meaning, can't help such husbands in the way that effective Christian counseling or retreats can. I truly think more husbands would surrender if the help was there, As it is so many wives and children have been martyrs while the husbands play.
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Good morning from a cool and frosty South Africa,
Jane,
I have a feeling that this friend of yours needs to hear that it is ok for her to leave her husband????
From experience I can tell you that no amount of Christian counselling can change her husband's attitude. God is the only One who can "make" him listen and feel. If he keeps on ignoring the voice of the Holy Spirit - which he is definatively hearing or he would not have told his wife of his so called secret - there will be no change whatsoever in his life. The husband still denies God access to his heart, untill he can manage that he will not change. No man has the ability to help him change - prayer is the only thing that people can do - until he wants to have God in his life. Only then will Christian counselling be of any help.
It is funny how people can;t hear the voice of the Lord crying out their names, how they can't hear the longing in that beautiful voice... It is God's will for us woman to keep on praying vigilantly for the man in our lives salvation. If she is a christian wife has she heard God speaking to her? God never wants His children to get involved with non believers and He does not use us ( the believers ) to lure anyone to Him. That is typically the way of satan.
You state that I believe more husbands would surrender to God if the help was there sooner. If it was the other way around, how many husbands do you think would wait for a wife to surrender?
In SA we have a lot of counselors and I believe there must be in your country as well. She must keep on searching. I also think a lot of husbands in Christ also waits and prays for wives to surrender. The main thing is the true belief in Christ. My experience is that lots of people think that they believe - been brought up in a christian house, going to church every Sunday, maybe they are even part of a prayer group in church... That does not mean the they have a really true and significant relationship with God. If the words I or me come up, sorry no go.
I can tell you how I felt during the really sad times in our marriage... I felt that God was punishing me for things I did wrong and I did a lot of soul searching - I also was a Christian wife who lived by the Book. One thing I am certain of today is that our God does not punish us, He loves us. Because of poor choices we land in situations ( not only our own choices..:-) ) and we have to keep on trusting Him. So I guess my advice is... TRUST TRUST IN HIM ALONE.
I keep your friend in my prayers.
God bless you.
Love
Hantie
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Dear Hantie,
I agree that the wife can leave her husband. But then there is a big problem. As long as she stays with him, he honors her wish to keep unsavory ppl away from their children. But should she leave him, there is no doubt that he will gravitate to ungodly family and friends for his security. At that point, the wife can no longer protect her children. They would be targets of the devil for wrong ideas to be placed in their minds and could be physically molested. Anything is possible- they could even get physically injured or killed, because this father is so lost in his sin that he would not watch them carefully or keep wrong influences away from them.
Sometimes in situations like this, the husband knows he is not good for his children, let's the mother have them and gets out of their lives. But other times the husband wrecks havoc in their lives by not protecting their hearts and minds. There is also the cases where the couple gets joint custody and the children must travel back and forth between parents like ping pong balls. It is one way at the mother's home and another way at the father's home, so the childrens' minds are completely confused. Or Mom is the stricter parent and Dad is like a Disneyland Dad who spoils the kids rotten. I could give many more examples. But the problem is, if the wife leaves or asks for a separation, she can put her childrens' lives in peril.
That's why every case is different and the wife who is a Christian must listen to God very carefully for direction in what choices to make and how to proceed. It is an excruciatingly hard thing to do and only a strong Christian woman can cope. Anyone can say that such a wife is within her spiritual rights to separate, but I believe the bottom line is always listening to the Holy Spirit for His plan. And I believe that His plan will be different for different wives because no two situations are the same.
No two wives will have the same ability to separate. Not every wife has the financial means to separate or the emotional and physical support from her family, friends or church to do so. There are many other factors that enter into the equation. And another big factor is, like I was saying before, no two husbands have the same support to get help for their sin.
When I spoke about counselors and men's retreats etc., I meant, and stated so, that no one can save a man until he is ready and unless he chooses to surrender to God, but I believe God ordained counselors, retreats and other more extensive faith-based programs to reach men. Some men are helped by these means and turn to God and others don't. But if nothing is done, a wife can pray endlessly and go through an entire, miserable lifetime with her husband who never surrenders to God.
There are couples who have been married their entire lives, but that does not mean that they are married in Christ in a marriage that is God honoring. There are various different reasons that couples stay together, some get along ok and some don't, but the truth is they are totally out of God's will and both or the unsaved spouce will end up in Hell. Their marriage may look great to others on the outside looking in, they may have all of their family and friends fooled, but God is not fooled.
I agree with all of your points. We are both saying the same thing. I agree that the wife here must keep searching for the right counselor, retreat etc for her husband. And this is exactly what she has been doing. And her husband has said he is willing to get help. Of course we will not know until the time comes if he will follow through. But counselors have told her it is a good sign when a man is willing to accept help as most men would run at that point. We just won't know until the time comes.
At this point, I want to stop and say, both you and Wicus have my deepest respect for sharing your experience with me freely and really trying to help. I believe that no one knows a situation better then someone who has been through it, and that is why I asked for believers who have been there, done that, to comment and provide their insights. If you think of anything else, keep it coming.
I have never really approached a search for answers as I did this time. I mean I have asked for guidance from other believers as I minister to people with marital or other problems, but I never quite reached out in the way I did this time appealing to those who have been through problems first hand to share their insights. The Holy Spirit lead me to write my initial post the way I did and it has been refreshing to hear Wicus's brutal honesty about what he as a husband felt and how he treated you and his children when he was not in Christ and about how unsaved men think and act. I needed to hear brutal honesty in order to be able to minister to my friend and others more effectively.
Something I need clarification on is, not sure from Wicus's story, were you (Hantie) a believer from the beginning of your marriage or did you get saved at some point later into the marriage? Ty for your prayers for this couple. After the husband's recent admission of his hidden problems, the couple has dialogued a little more and more has come out although at this point the wife does not know if what he has expressed are his corrupted thoughts or the truth, and he is going through the intake process to go to a faith-based program for those with sexual sins. All of the Christian counselors in this program were delivered themselves from sexual sins, so they know just what this man is dealing with. And they themselves had to go through the program before they could be equipped to counsel others. So, this is a ray of hope. Again, if you and Wicus think of anything else you want to share, we are listening and thank you for your continued prayers. And I pray that if there are others out there who have been through similar trials that you will join in too.
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