WHAT IS ARMINIANISM AND CALVINISM

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by RoyW on December 22, 2010 at 5:48am

What do we say about verses like the following? All verses in NIV:

 

Heb 10:15-17
15 The Holy Spirit also testifies to us about this. First he says:
16 "This is the covenant I will make with them
after that time, says the Lord.
I will put my laws in their hearts,
and I will write them on their minds." 
17 Then he adds:
"Their sins and lawless acts
I will remember no more." 

Jer 31:34
34 No longer will a man teach his neighbor,
or a man his brother, saying, 'Know the Lord,'
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,"
 declares the Lord.
"For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more."

Isa 43:25  "I, even I, am he who blots out
your transgressions, for my own sake,
and remembers your sins no more.

These are sovereign acts of our Lord. He does these things for His purpose and plan. As He says in Is 43:25, "...for my own sake..."

We cannot take credit for these acts of God. We are so quick to proclaim our decision to follow Him. I just don't think that is a Scriptural approach. Notice:

Isa 44:22 I have swept away your offenses like a cloud,
your sins like the morning mist.
Return to me,
for I have redeemed you."

It is our position that He sweeps away our offenses since we returned to Him, the Savior of our soul. However, that is backwards. He sweeps away our offenses and then calls unto us to return to Him. He redeems us, the commands us to believe on Him. Unless He first does the work in my heart, I cannot believe in Him. I am taking credit for something I had absolutely nothing to do with. I didn't choose Him. He chose me.

I say to you to turn from your sins and follow Him. However, I know you need the power of the Spirit to sweep You into His presence or you will never be able to do that. God's plan is not conditional on me. He is my Savior from start to finish. I cannot see Scripture in any less fashion.

My job is to preach His Word but it is never to convince anyone of Who He is. That is the work of the Spirit. I am wasting my time attempting to convince man to turn to Him. It is my part to instruct men to turn to Him.

Ac 10:43 All the prophets testify about him that everyone who believes in him receives forgiveness of sins through his name."

His sheep will know Him and they will follow Him. Turn to Him and be saved.

Isa 44:23
 Sing for joy, O heavens, for the Lord has done this;
shout aloud, O earth beneath.
Burst into song, you mountains,
you forests and all your trees,
for the Lord has redeemed Jacob,
he displays his glory in Israel.

I am included in that verse and you are as well, if you believe in Him. I am redeemed for He has redeemed me. I have been gloriously saved by His grace. I can take no credit. My faith is an act of our Sovereign Lord.

Merry Christmas : )

Roy

 

 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 11, 2011 at 1:41am

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 11, 2011 at 5:26am

David,

I'm having to digest this presentation. Does he have a presentation where he shows this progression? I believe in all those steps but I have not put them in that order but it does seem to make sense.

1) Election; 2) The Call; 3) Regeneration 4) Conversion; 5) Justification; 6) Adoption; 7) Sanctification; 8) Perseverance; 9) Death; 10) Glofification.

For instance: What if we reversed three and four? Does regeneration proceed conversion? He does seem to make an issue of the order of events. I would like to get more on this if available.

Are you still going to camp?

As always, you are doing a great job.

Your brother,

Roy

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 11, 2011 at 9:48pm

This is a clip from the series called "How God Converts the Human Soul". You can order this full series at http://www.crosstv.com. As far as i know there are clips of the series here and there. I will try to get them. Yeap i am still going to camp snoopy hahaaha i will send you a message about it.

 

>>For instance: What if we reversed three and four? Does regeneration proceed conversion?

 

Well if something like that was to happen, we would end up with two different theological schools of thought. KInd of like Arminianism and Calvinism hahaha

 

Thank you for the encouragement and so are you my brother. I am happy to see you sharing a bit more. Hope God is giving you favor in your building project.

 

Love to you my friend and brother.  

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on January 12, 2011 at 1:18pm

Hi Guys,

Let me post a sequential progression found in 1Corintians 1:30 :

"But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus (The Holy Spirit`s conviction), who became to us WISDOM from God (Proverbs 9:10 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.....), and RIGHTEOUSNESS and SANCTIFICATION, and REDEMPTION,"

 

I have to tell ya, in following all the posts pertaining to this series, it`s very impressive, the Biblical knowledge and application displayed by you brothers and sisters. And the passion.......... whew.

For sure, there are numerous Scripture passages that seem to be applicable to each camp. And it`s not like these differences are new, and limited to a couple of isolated factions in the Bride of Christ.

 

You`ve set me thinking(and praying about it). Could there be........... maybe.....some kind of combination of the two schools of thought?? Either school is too BIG to dismiss on its own. And each one`s supporters will probably never change their minds

regarding their convictions. David, I know you and Roy won`t.

 

I don`t know........just a thought......... think about it.

Is it possible?

 

Grace and Peace.

 

 

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 12, 2011 at 1:40pm

Richard,

Can you give me a scenario where God chose us first yet it was actually we that chose Him first? I'm not seeing the realm of possibilities. I stopped arguing with those who say it is actually we who choose Him. However, I do not see a possible way for both camps to be correct. I think it comes down to this: those who feel they're pretty good Joe's take a little bit of the credit to themselves by saying they are actually the ones that chose God. While the others know there is absolutely nothing within them that is any good and would never choose God on their own. Are you possibly saying some choose God and that God chooses the rest?

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 15, 2011 at 3:41pm

 

Beloved Richard,

 

Is such a blessing to read your posts. The spirit behind them is lovely. Thank you for exemplifying the attitude welcome in this hot topics.

 

>>But by His doing you are in Christ Jesus (The Holy Spirit`s conviction), who became to us WISDOM from God (Proverbs 9:10 - "The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom.....), and RIGHTEOUSNESS and SANCTIFICATION, and REDEMPTION,"

 

I personally would not insert by The Holy Spirit's conviction right there only, but mainly what comes to my mind is by His good pleasure.  

 

>>kind of combination of the two schools of thought?? Either school is too BIG to dismiss on its own. And each one`s supporters will probably never change their minds

 

There was a time did not know Arminianism and Calvinism/Reformed Theology existed, but my theology has always been a combination of the two. Kind of like A.W. Tozer's. Very much like the last video I placed here from John MacArthur.

 

>>David, I know you and Roy won`t.

 

At this time I am sold that Reformed theology aligns closer to scripture than the other theological system (Arminianism) and I have always been a combination of the two. Just that now is more like 90 % Calvinism to 10% Arminian. :) But I love to grow and learn and if God tells me to modify something I want to be obedient.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 15, 2011 at 5:38pm

David,

And I as well. I grew up in a strong Arminian home, raised in a very strong Arminian church, and went to an Arminian school of theology. I ministered as an Arminian for several years. I felt something wasn't quite right with what I was teaching and what I believed. I asked God to bring Scripture alive to me. He did. I welcomed the knowledge that He had actually chosen me. I had always felt I would never make it as I knew for sure I was not close to good enough. I also greatly feared I would mess up in the end and miss eternity with God. It took a supernatural revelation for me to be set free from that fear I had had since a child. God showed me in His Word that He had elected me before He had laid the foundation for this world. I was finally set free from the that fear. That was thirty-three plus years ago and I still remain free from fear today. I am so grateful for His Word. When I read of those who will fall, I know that is not referring to me. I praise His name for His gracious gift of salvation. I am grateful to know I am eternally His. I have no idea why I am chosen. He did say it was according to His good pleasure and will. He also says He chose the weak things of this world. I know for certain I qualify in that category. I praise the Name of my Father God and Savior God Jesus. I am sealed with His Spirit. There is no better news available to mankind.

Blessings to you all,

Roy

Permalink Reply by sojourner on January 15, 2011 at 7:45pm

Hi Roy.

I hope you are well my friend.

As you know,I don't hold to Calvinism and while I lean more towards Arminianism,I am not Arminianist.I find your above comments interesting,Roy.Do you think it's possible that as you "greatly feared" missing eternity with God,you may have been tempted towards Calvinism as it appeared (to you) to offer the comfort of certain salvation,of which you sought?

I am also grateful to know I am eternally His,and yet,I am not a Calvinist.

Bless you bro' and I hope you and yours have a great year ahead .

Sojourner.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 15, 2011 at 8:44pm

Thank you, Sojourner and you as well.

Actually, it is Scripture that convinces me. However, it does not bother me that you would interpret Scripture differently than I. I have a feeling it is just too big for any of us to comprehend it completely. I do allow room in my theology for those areas where I need correction. Of course, there are those things that are absolutely essential to salvation. I know we agree on those things. Praise the Lord for giving us His Word.

Roy

Permalink Reply by Richard L. Broch, Sr. on January 12, 2011 at 2:26pm

Hi Roy,

The only scenario I can offer is my own.

I answered an invitation at church and was immersed in the name of Jesus Christ. I did this because I wanted to.

Here`s the thing: I didn`t feel born again. Didn`t really feel anything. Didn`t deny myself, or pick up my cross daily (Luke 9:23). This went on for a number of years (1967 - 1980 (?) ). Went to church regularly, taught Sunday School and Bible Studies, was a Deacon, Elder, etc..Felt secure in the Lord, because during those years I stopped smoking and drinking heavily, and started to pick up my cross daily.

 

Now, sometime ( in the 90`s ?? I don`t know) I was born again! It wasn`t overnight, over a period of time, can`t tell.

But I`ll tell you this = I am now a true disciple of my Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ! And NOBODY (repeat) NOBDY is going to change that! Roy, I was definitely born again, somewhere along the way, I know not how or when.

 

This is the first time I`ve ever told my story in a public manner like this.

So, Roy, this is why I feel that the initial move was made by me, even though it was far from complete.

 

Grace and Peace.

Permalink Reply by RoyW on January 12, 2011 at 2:46pm

You might be right. However, you only know what you did. You don't know what He did. Is it possible that He changed your will? His sheep know His voice. Is it possible that you turned to follow Him because you already belonged to Him? Is it possible that you were one of His and only did that which was natural?

Could be that He was working on you long before you ever had a thought about Him.

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