The Trinity

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 13, 2014 at 8:57pm

Matthew 24:36 -- But of that day and hour knows no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

So if even Jesus doesn't know the day He's returning???  I'm wondering about the trinity, all in one.  I just really need some guidance on this, it's not in the Bible, so i'm wondering where its coming from???  

There is only one God right?  According to the Bible we understand the Son....but then we have the Holy Spirit.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 13, 2014 at 9:56pm

Perhaps understanding what God's attributes are not will help you understand what God's attributes are, at least as far as the Trinity goes.

Question: "What are Sabellianism, Modalism, and Monarchianism?"

Answer: One of the most hotly debated theological issues in the early Christian church was the doctrine of the Trinity. How do God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit relate to one another? How can there only be one God, but three Persons? All of the various early heresies resulted from individuals overemphasizing or underemphasizing various aspects of the Godhead. Ultimately, all of these false views result from attempts by finite human beings to fully understand an infinite God (Romans 11:33-36). Sabellianism, Modalism, and Monarchianism are just three of the numerous false views.

Monarchianism had two primary forms, Dynamic Monarchianism and Modalistic Monarchianism. Dynamic Monarchianism is the view that Jesus was not in His nature God. It is the view that God existed in Jesus, just as God exists in all of us, but that God existed in Jesus in a particularly powerful way. Jesus was God because God inhabited Him. Modalistic Monarchianism, also known as Modalism, is the view that God variously manifested Himself as the Father (primarily in the Old Testament), other times as the Son (primarily from Jesus’ conception to His ascension), and other times as the Holy Spirit (primarily after Jesus’ ascension into heaven). Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism teaches that God has simply revealed Himself in three different modes, and that He is not three Persons, as the Bible asserts. Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism is also known as Sabellianism, named after Sabellius, an influential early proponent of the view. Yet another aspect of Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism / Sabellianism is Patripassianism, which is the view that it was God the Father who became incarnate, suffered, died, and was resurrected. Patripassianism essentially teaches that God the Father became His own Son.

With all that said, Sabellianism, Modalism, Monarchianism (dynamic and modalistic), and Patripassianism are all unbiblical understandings of the relationship between the Persons of the Trinity. It is impossible for us as finite human beings to fully understand an infinite God. The Bible presents God as one God, but then speaks of three Persons—the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit. How these two truths harmonize is inconceivable to the human mind. When we attempt to define the indefinable (God), we will always fail to varying degrees. Dynamic Monarchianism fails in that it does not recognize the true deity of Jesus Christ. Modalistic Monarchianism / Modalism / Sabellianism / Patripassianism fails because it does not recognize God as three distinct Persons.

Recommended Resources: The Moody Handbook of Theology by Paul Enns and Logos Bible Software.

While he is not the author of every article on GotQuestions.org, for citation purposes, you may reference our CEO, S. Michael Houdmann.

Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/Sabellianism-Modalism-Monarchianism.htm...

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 13, 2014 at 9:59pm

PS The word bible is not found in the bible either.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 14, 2014 at 9:04pm

The word Bible is a transliteration of the Greek word for Book.

                                                (2)       Hebrews 10:7 - The Bible is called the Book.

                                                (3)       Nehemiah 8:1, 3, 5, 8, 18 - God’s law is called the Book.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 17, 2014 at 9:52am

I may be misunderstanding your intention, but it sounds like you are making the argument that the word bible is in the bible but is called book instead, but the word trinity isn't in the bible and isn't therefore biblical. Nevertheless, I found this article, and it answers all my questions, including whether or not the word subsistences is interchangeable with the word persons, in describing the doctrine of the trinity. God has helped me understand.

http://carm.org/what-trinity

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 14, 2014 at 8:18pm

Thanks for the copy and paste from got questions Amanda.  I've been reading a alot & have also read this. It's helpful.

Permalink Reply by ribbon on March 17, 2014 at 2:28am

Thank you... :)

Permalink Reply by ribbon on March 14, 2014 at 1:00am

I don't understand the trinity and never knew about it being taught until I was grown. I remember mentioning to my mom once and she was confused as to where that came from too. I do believe in the 3 being as of one. Same thoughts same everything. To me even if we find someone whose views are almost identical to our own we will never find one with the exact same thoughts same  everything . 

I can remember thinking ,like you ,as to where does people get the trinity beliefs. But now I believe they are one.  I don't believe everything Im told about scripture either. I just know I started to believe it. I remember they told me about something in Genesis and different things in the bible both old testament and new  .

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 14, 2014 at 8:21pm

Confused,

I think that we're on the same page...not arguing the authority of Jesus, just reading the Bible  & understanding.  You're so sweet and kind.

Permalink Reply by Seek on March 14, 2014 at 6:34am

The Trinity isn't mentioned in the Bible, and as Amanda said, neither is the Bible.  Neither are cars, since none of them were words that were thought of then.  And I've heard that hell was never in the Bible either, but that they used hell to encompass what the context was saying regarding Sheol, Hades and Gehenna.  And by the way, heaven also wasn't in the Bible.  Jesus called it paradise, and that actually may not even be the proper term.  Translators translated from old dead languages from people who lived in another time with different customs.  Using historical events to understand their times, context, etc., they developed more modern words that they used to describe the meaning behind the ancient Greek and Hebrew texts.  Therefore, since the Holy Trinity isn't in the Bible (or scripture as it is referred to), we have to use the context to grasp the meaning.  Trinity is a word designed to refer to many verses throughout the Bible.

Here are just a few that show the concept of a Trinity (or Triune God).  Triune is a Latin word whose first known use is from the early 1600's.  So 1600 years after Christ, they develop a word to describe Him, and it means: consisting of three parts, members, or aspects.

John 1:1: In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

So if the Word was God:

John 1:14: And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

So now we know Jesus was the only begotten (Son) of the Father (God), and He was the Word and the Word was God.  Therefore, we now know Jesus was God...in the flesh.

And there are several verses about the Holy Spirit in us, here are two:  1 Corinthians 3:16: Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?  and 2 Timothy 1:4:  That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

So now we know the Holy Ghost/Spirit is in us and He is the Spirit of God.

Also Jesus tells us in John 14: 15-17: If ye love me, keep my commandments.  And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

But He says He will pray the Father (talking like He's not the Father) to send us another Comforter (like the other Comforter is also a separate entity. 

Yet then we have Ephesians 4:6: One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

So is God in us or the Holy Spirit?  And if both God and the Holy Spirit are in us, does that mean they are one and the same and yet separate. 

The key is that we cannot understand all there is to God while in the flesh.  1 Corinthians 13:9-10: For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away. and 1 Corinthians 13:12: For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So we try to explain God with human terms that endeavor to encompass that He is One being (as stated) but three separate (as shown in scripture).  We try to use references such as eggs consisting of yoke, white and shell, or people consisting of mind, body and spirit.  But in our humanness, we can in no way accurately describe it, so we use words such as trinity and triune to try and put them in a form we can grasp. 

As for Jesus not knowing the day He was returning...He was made flesh, He willingly came down in the flesh.  He gave up His place in heaven/paradise and His omnipresence, omnipotence and omniscience.  Which are also not original terms. 

I gathered these excerpts from http://www.cogwriter.com/god-omnipotent-omniscient-omnipresent.htm: 

The Greek word translated as “Omnipotent” here is pantokrator, meaning “All-ruling”or (as it is more frequently translated) “Almighty.” When we say God is “Almighty,” we are stating our belief in His authority and rulership over all creation, and the Bible is firm in declaring this fact. Even though Satan is now the “god of this age” (2 Corinthians 4:4), it belongs to him only because Almighty God has granted it to Him.  There is even a verse that, in the King James Version and New King James Version, uses this very word: “Alleluia! For the Lord God Omnipotent reigns!” (Revelation 19:6).

Being omnipresent means being present everywhere at the same time. Can this term be applied to God?  King David posed this question directly, asking: “Where can I go from Your Spirit? Or where can I flee from Your presence? If I ascend into heaven, You are there; if I make my bed in hell [the grave], behold, You are there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea, even there Your hand shall lead me, and Your right hand shall hold me” (Psalm 139:7–10).

The Random House Unabridged Dictionary (2006) offers this definition of omniscient: “having complete or unlimited knowledge, awareness, or understanding; perceiving all things.”  The Bible tells us that God does perceive all things, which means that no fact can be hidden from His knowledge. As King David recognized: “Indeed, the darkness shall not hide from You, but the night shines as the day; the darkness and the light are both alike to You” (Psalm 139:12). God sees all things, and nothing can be hidden from His knowledge—not even the secret intentions of the heart (Psalm 44:21). In fact, He understands our own intentions better than we do (cf. Jeremiah 17:9-10; Hebrews 4:12)! As Paul explains, “there is no creature hidden from His sight, but all things are naked and open to the eyes of Him to whom we must give account” (Hebrews 4:13).

It also states:  Human beings perceive through the senses, but there are limits to what the senses let us perceive and understand.

Which may explain why Jesus didn't know the day of His return.  But since we can now only know in part, we can only truly guess at it unless it is revealed to us.  Which is usually done through reading and studying scripture and taking it all in context.  And we still have our limitations on how to describe it.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on March 14, 2014 at 8:06am

Good points, Seek. Also, after His resurrection, the Scripture confirms that Jesus "knows all things" -- John 21:17. During His life before He died, the reason for His saying He didn't know something at that time is likely due to Him submitting to the limitations of being fully human, which still in no way denies His full divinity, either. See Philippians 2:6-11.

Permalink Reply by thewatchman on March 14, 2014 at 8:23pm

Seek, 

Thank You

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• …
• 5
• Next ›
• Page