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Bearing fruit without being guilty of dead works???
We all agreed that we are saved by God's grace, not our dead works. We also agreed that those that are saved will walk righteously. But in our Christian lingo it seems our language is all blurred together at times.
So how do we obey God without trying to "earn" our salvation or even keep it? For the record I believe in the preservation of the Saints by our Lord, he is able to keep us.
Is it just a matter of motives? Is fearing a holy and exalted God a "works" mentality, while the motive of gratitude toward a gracious God is the "Biblical" mentality? Or is it that God is supposed to be the originator of good works, and anything done by a conscience deliberate and disciplined decision is just dead works?
I think we agree we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" and that "God is working in us to will and act", but how does this work???
Example: I dont like mornings!!! But I know by experience when I dont force myself to wake up and pray I am more likely to "enter into temptation", and since I don’t trust myself and my own strength in face of temptation I wake up and pray (most of the time anyway! Hehe!). Is this dead works??? Is forcing myself to pray that I won’t enter into temptation but be delivered from evil a dead work?
Or: if someone hurts my feelings and I want to write them off, I remember that if I don’t forgive, I won’t be forgiven, so I thru prayer, meditating on scripture and all the will power I can muster force myself to forgive them. Is that dead works??? Is forcing myself to obey a command that is conditional to forgiveness dead works?
Simply put, how do we work out what God works in by grace? What’s involved? Spiritual disciplines? Faith? Our own will and discipline? Our feelings? Etc.?
What is a "dead work"? Pls define it.
What is a "godly grace driven act of righteousness"? Pls describe how it is produced in our lives.
By a dear friend of mine Chris C.
So how do we obey God without trying to "earn" our salvation or even keep it? For the record I believe in the preservation of the Saints by our Lord, he is able to keep us.
Is it just a matter of motives? Is fearing a holy and exalted God a "works" mentality, while the motive of gratitude toward a gracious God is the "Biblical" mentality? Or is it that God is supposed to be the originator of good works, and anything done by a conscience deliberate and disciplined decision is just dead works?
I think we agree we must "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" and that "God is working in us to will and act", but how does this work???
Example: I dont like mornings!!! But I know by experience when I dont force myself to wake up and pray I am more likely to "enter into temptation", and since I don’t trust myself and my own strength in face of temptation I wake up and pray (most of the time anyway! Hehe!). Is this dead works??? Is forcing myself to pray that I won’t enter into temptation but be delivered from evil a dead work?
Or: if someone hurts my feelings and I want to write them off, I remember that if I don’t forgive, I won’t be forgiven, so I thru prayer, meditating on scripture and all the will power I can muster force myself to forgive them. Is that dead works??? Is forcing myself to obey a command that is conditional to forgiveness dead works?
Simply put, how do we work out what God works in by grace? What’s involved? Spiritual disciplines? Faith? Our own will and discipline? Our feelings? Etc.?
What is a "dead work"? Pls define it.
What is a "godly grace driven act of righteousness"? Pls describe how it is produced in our lives.
By a dear friend of mine Chris C.
Views: 202
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Kendall Payton on
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David
So then if you are not of the world then you let go of the desires of it such as prosperity, lust, envy, all the things that make a person seek the american dream, so this gives you access to Gods dream of eteranl life here on earth with his God family. I think atmosphere and sky are one and the same;( The atmosphere of Earth is a layer of gases surrounding the planet Earth that is retained by Earth's gravity. The atmosphere protects life on Earth by absorbing ultraviolet solar radiation, warming the surface through heat retention (greenhouse effect), and reducing temperature extremes between day and night. Dry air contains roughly (by volume) 78% nitrogen, 21% oxygen, 0.93% argon, 0.038% carbon dioxide, and small amounts of other gases. Air also contains a variable amount of water vapor, on average around 1%.)
but I will get the verses for you. the third heaven is where god and jesus is now. the second heaven is the firmament (sky, outer space as a whole) and the third heaven is the earth. once I find all the verses i will post for you.
So question if you are taught that you will go to heaven which heaven do you go and why? And if God desires to dwell in jerusalm or zion and we want to be with him, why are we taught that we are going to a far off place then to come back to earth?
My bible tells me he's comeing back and is never going to leave. -
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Dear Kendall
As I stated before we do not have a lot of info in reference to the third heaven and I don't really enjoy speculating or discussing such trivial issues though I admit they do lend themselves for interesting healthy discussions, so with that said I think we are pretty much saying the same thing.
You say: "the third heaven is where god and Jesus is now" I agree 100% with your statement bro, but then you say: "the third heaven is the earth" huh????? God is everywhere we know that to be one of his attributes (omnipresence) but that is different than His adobe or his manifested presence.
Then you asked the question: "So question if you are taught that you will go to heaven which heaven do you go and why?"
To be away from the body is to be in the presence of the Lord, for now is a person dies, the person will either go to heaven or hell. Neither one of those places is permanent for now.
God will make a new heaven and a new earth and when that is done after the white throne judgment. Hell will be cast into the Lake of fire, so heaven (Abraham's bosom, paradise) is for now a temporary home for the dead in Christ and hell is a temporary place of torment for now until it’s thrown into the Lake.
Hope that helps. God will dwell in the New Jerusalem and the saints will inherit the new earth. -
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Romans 8:13 "for if you are living according to the flesh, you must die; but if by the Spirit you are putting to death the deeds of the body, you will live
galatians 5:24 "And those who are Christ’s have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. ~some of the "fighting the Flesh" is simply walking in The Spirit according to these few verses, Obedience to Jesus word is not a "dead work" it is simply obeying.
look at Joseph, potiphers wife coming to him often saying "have sex with me" i wonder if Joseph was attracted to her at all? is his fleeing a dead work if he had an ounce of sexual desire for her? I believe that motive is key but in the process of "crucifying the flesh" i know there were times i wanted the sin in my flesh, but as God allowed me to see how wicked it was i had a transformation (i believe through the Holy SpiriT) that allowed my sinful desire to take a back seat to the greater need for me to obey God. sin is appealing at times and running from it because we love God is not a dead work but a work by the Spirit of God through us but its so hard to walk away at times and do the right thing.
~James 1:12 "Blessed is the man who endures temptation; for when he has been approved, he will receive the crown of life which the Lord has promised to those who love Him.kw -
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I love the verse you have found God now stay on the path and you will be ok. This race is long but the reward is great. Praise the Lord brotha.
Peace In Jesus Name -
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