You don't earn your salvation but maybe you keep it through works.

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2015 at 5:48pm

I am posting below a portion of a three part article I wrote a while back entitled "Where Did My Faith go?" that includes the following regarding salvation:

Can I lose my salvation?
I once believed that a person could lose their salvation. In the Scripture there are some verses that would initially lead a person to accept that as I had. After examining the whole counsel of God on the subject I have come to the conclusion that it teaches that you cannot lose your faith. Let’s look at some of the reasons why.

1. You cannot be separated from the love of the Son or the Father.
Romans 8:35 tells us that we cannot be separated from the love of Christ by stating the following “Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?” As we go through these things Jesus still loves us. He knows that these events will wear on us and cause us to struggle like the Church in Smyrna where Jesus says to them “I know your afflictions and your poverty--yet you are rich! I know the slander of those who say they are Jews and are not, but are a synagogue of Satan. Do not be afraid of what you are about to suffer. I tell you, the devil will put some of you in prison to test you, and you will suffer persecution for ten days. Be faithful, even to the point of death, and I will give you the crown of life.”
How does this prove that you will not lose your salvation? It is a love never ending. It is a love that endures with us as we go through the battles of life. It is a love that brings a promise. Paul said earlier in Romans chapter 8 verses 28-34 the following that gives us assurance “and we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose. For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all--how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died--more than that, who was raised to life--is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us.”
The last part of Romans 8 seals the deal. Paul writes “No, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him who loved us. For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” We are conquerors. That means we will win the race and overcome the battle. That means we cannot lose. This victory is not dependent upon you, but God.
Some would argue that nothing can separate you from the love of God, but you can walk away. I will refute that shortly when we examine “saved by grace.”

2. You cannot be snatched from His hand.
Jesus makes it clear that once you are given to Him and become one of His sheep you cannot be snatched from the Father’s hands in John 10:27-30 “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all; no one can snatch them out of my Father's hand. I and the Father are one."
You are forever His. The love and protection of God are not dependent on you. The troubles we face in life come as refining fire, discipline, or our battle with the enemy. Even in the darkest hour God is there and ready to put a stop to the events when the time is right. The key is learning to trust God through the storm instead of always wanting to be removed from the storm. The disciples taught us this lesson when the storm rose and they feared for their lives they called out to Jesus Who was sleeping. He was asleep because there was nothing to fear. He awoke and calmed the storm. Before calming the storm Jesus told the disciples the following “You of little faith, why are you so afraid?" (Mat. 8:26).
You and I are secure in the Father’s hands. Trust in the heart and power of the Father. Once you are His He will not let you go.

3. If you were able to fall away there is no sacrifice left to bring you back.
The idea of losing our faith and then returning is not acceptable according to the teaching of God. Hebrews 10:26-27 states “If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.” This verse is not an example of what will happen, but what would happen if it were possible. You see we are saved by grace, not works. We cannot fall out side of the love of God, nor can we be removed from His hand. If we were to be judged under sin we would deserve condemnation, but the Bible says that there is no condemnation for those found in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:1).
The verses are teaching us that if you could fall away there would be no redemption. We can learn from God’s treatment of Israel in the Old Testament and His future treatment in the end times. Israel disobeyed God on countless occasions and chased after false gods. God brought judgment upon them time after time in the form of discipline. When they would cry out He would restore them. Did they lose their relationship with God each time? Were they renewing their relation with God each time? No! Through it all they were, and are, God’s chosen people. They did not become un-chosen and then chosen, and un-chosen and then chosen. The core relationship did not change. The surface issues altered their relationship, but not to the point of exclusion from God. The nation of Israel will be dealt with in the future. We, the body of Christ, are not dealt with as a nation. We are dealt with individually. Our relationship with the Father is through the Son. Once that occurs the core relationship cannot change. You cannot become a child of God and then not a child of God. When a person experiences being “born again” it is the beginning of a new life. That new life is in Christ. As Nicodemus stated that he could not go back into the mother’s womb we cannot reenter the spiritual birthing phase. We are or we are not a child of God. We cannot be born again and become unborn to be born all over again. And we certainly do not lose our salvation once to be lost for eternity. If that were the case the grace, mercy and love of God would be silenced and inoperable.
The apostle Peter denied Jesus three times and was yet embraced by Jesus Himself. Was denying Jesus a sin? Did Jesus die for Him again? Then the sin didn’t remove Peter from the family of God. The fact that Peter denied Jesus three times is important. The number three in Scripture carries an emphasis of fact or meaning. Three denials would qualify as “continuing to sin” therefore according to some he would be lost and need salvation again, but there is no sacrifice left. Therefore, Jesus could not have embraced Him, unless he was never lost, just wayward.

4. You are saved by grace.
I have taught through the years that “we are saved by grace and maintained by grace.” Few dispute the teaching brought forth by Martin Luther that state's it is by “grace alone” that we are saved. Some churches have attached works. Some disguise this, but their teaching of salvation requires some form of works to be saved. The Bible says “For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God-- 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.” (Eph. 2:8-9). The fact that salvation is by grace and not works is clear in the Bible.
The problem arises when we take the next step. What about after a person is saved? Then what? How does a person stay saved? Too many today teach either by design or in error that it is by works. They will not word it that way. They point you to the 10 Commandments. If you want to be saved you must live up to these. Come on! I could not get saved trying to live up to these. I surely will not remain saved if I have to live up to these. Same problem as before I got saved. My sinful flesh and my human weakness will fail again. Some will create a list of dos and don’ts. If you break this list you are a lost sinner. None of this makes any sense. Why would God save us by grace and require us to live under the law to maintain that salvation? He doesn’t. The whole Book of Galatians speaks to this issue. We are free from the law and live under grace. We live under the grace of God. We are saved by grace, and this not from ourselves. We are maintained, kept in salvation, by grace, and this not from ourselves. Anything else would make no sense and be inconsistent with our understanding of God and His Word.

Summary:
1. You cannot be separated from the love of the Son or the Father.
2. You cannot be snatched from His hand.
3. If you were able to fall away there is no sacrifice left to bring you back.
4. You are saved by grace.

I believe the Scriptures teach clearly that you cannot lose your salvation. Whether I am right or wrong, because this debate will not go away this side of heaven, is not the issue. The key is that if we are hungering after God and seeking to get closer to Him we will never be testing to see if there is a line in the sand that goes to far and then “oops” I’ve crossed over and am lost again. I think many ask “Can I lose my salvation” because they want to know how close to the fire can they play and still be saved. Stay away from the fire and draw near to God. In Him you find comfort, safety and love.

Lord Bless
LT

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2015 at 6:38pm

You're welcome. I hope it helps.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2015 at 6:09pm

Here is a link to a discussion that a guy named Rob and I had on this subject. Of course there are others participating, but a large portion was between Rob and me. The forum (especially the part between Rob and me) is in tact.

I encourage you to read this and keep me from duplicating my answers here, but if you do not read it I will attempt to address each question you raise as they come up ...

http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/can-we-lose-our-salvation?i...

Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 3, 2015 at 4:49pm

The topic with which you are truly struggling is, in my POV, dealing with the preservation of the saints versus the perseverance of the saints, in which case both are true, just as you suggest. Here's an article which, IMO, very clearly explains how both ideas are truth. It's called,
The Perseverance and Preservation of Believers: Can I Lose My Salvation?

http://thirdmill.org/studybible/note.asp/id/40937

It states in it's last three paragraphs the following and, perhaps if you will read those paragraphs, then you will be at peace with the issue and not need to read anything more:

Reformed theology strikes a balance between these two positions, embracing some aspects of both points of view and rejecting others. On the one hand, the need for perseverance is acknowledged. It is true that we are justified by faith alone, but faith that saves is never truly "alone." As James put it, "Faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead" (Jas 2:17). For this reason, Paul exhorted the Philippian Christians to "work out [their] salvation with fear and trembling" (Phil. 2:12) because during the Christian life one's faith is tested to see whether the person is truly in Christ (2 Cor. 13:5). In this sense, Reformed theologians often distinguish saving faith from seemingly sincere but temporary faith that leads to hypocrisy and apostasy. As the parable of the sower indicates (Matt. 13:18-23), there are different kinds of faith, but only faith that produces the fruit of holy living is saving faith. This is why the writer of Hebrews insisted that "without holiness no one will see the Lord" (Heb. 12:14). Those with temporary faith may experience many blessings from God because of their close association with the faithful (Heb. 6:1-6; 2 Pet. 2:21-22), but they will lose those blessings as they turn from Christ and will eventually suffer eternal judgment (Heb. 10:26-31). Many who say to Jesus, "Lord, Lord," will not be acknowledged (Matt. 7:21-23). Only those who show themselves to be regenerate by pursuing holiness as they pass through this world are entitled to believe themselves secure in Christ. Persevering in faith and penitence, not just in Christian formalism, is the path to glory. Nevertheless, Reformed theology has also emphasized that God's gracious preservation must sustain true believers so that they remain faithful to Christ. Christians do not begin their walk with Christ by faith and then continue by reliance on their own efforts (Gal. 3:3). Paul exhorted the Philippians to "work out [their] salvation" (Phil. 2:12) but then added, "For it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose" (Phil. 2:13). Paul also assured them, declaring that "he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion" (Phil. 1:6). Jesus himself stressed his preservation of true believers when he said that believers "shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand" (John 10:28).
Sometimes truly regenerate believers backslide and fall into gross sin. But in this they act out of character, do violence to their own new nature and make themselves deeply miserable, so that eventually they seek and find restoration to righteousness. When regenerate people act in character, they manifest a humble, grateful desire to please the God who saved them, and the knowledge that he is pledged to keep them safe forever simply increases this desire. See WCF 17; BC 24, 25; HC 86; CD V.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 3, 2015 at 5:12pm

The article was not meant to be comprehensive and was part of a three part series. Again, if you read through the discussion you will find that we address most of the verses in question (and if not in that one, there are two other older discussion in the archives on the topic). I refer you to the discussion because I really don't want to go point by point again. I know that may sound crude of me for this may be your first journey on the topic, but for me it is a return to a topic that I have discussed more times than I can count.

Regarding the Hebrews text I will simply point you to read the verses in context with the whole Book of Hebrews to determine if I am misapplying the application of the verse(s).

Note: At the end of the day once you have read through the discussion(s) and still desire to discuss this I will go point by point with you, but I ask you take the time to read through the discussions that ask the same questions you are asking ...

Permalink Reply by Mary O on August 4, 2015 at 6:35am

Hi LT, God bless you!

It says we are made complete in Him. How complete would we be if we could lose salvation?

And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: (Colossians 2:10 KJV)

And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself. (Ephesians 1:23 NLT)

Sometimes we set aside verses we don't understand and ask God to show us what they mean. What I understand of the word complete in the Colossians verse is that it's like COMPLETE! If Christ makes us complete, then we must be big time complete, mega complete. How complete are we if Christ has made us complete?

Love,

Mary

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 3, 2015 at 5:19pm

How come the verses you provide over shadow those other condemning  verses.

I don't believe any of the verses you are going to be referring to are condemning verses for the child of God who is born again and been regenerated.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 4, 2015 at 10:09am

Under the New Covenant salvation is conditional in the sense that one must come to Christ in repentance and receive Jesus. Why look at what part is God's and what part is ours? Why not accept that as God works in us we have liberty to respond to the offer to receive new birth, and afterwards, when it is a real experience of being born again, then why not accept the truth that there will be evidence of the new life in the person who has received it? The evidence is not causing salvation or maintaining it. Why not trust in God's provision that His children will persevere but only because of His preservation? It isn't that we "have to" do good works and obey God but that we will be different when we become the new creation, and "Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will grow to become in every respect the mature body of him who is the head, that is, Christ" Eph 4:15, NIV.

I remember struggling very much with this topic and I've re- visited it many times, reading through the discussions in the AAG archives, as well as LT's articles, and God used much of all of it to get through to me. They were sowing and watering and God gave the results. God opened my spiritual eyes and ears and heart to receive these truths.

I think LT's article is very good and, along with the other two parts of the series, is thorough. "I pray that the eyes of your heart may be enlightened in order that you may know the hope to which he has called you, the riches of his glorious inheritance in his holy people" Eph 1:18, NIV.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 4, 2015 at 3:24pm

Most certainly you and they will be in my thoughts and prayers. I don't hold to the OSAS viewpoint either, simply because there are many who believe they are truly saved who have never really received Christ and aren't known by Him but might have said a prayer and might be very involved in a church and might call themselves Christians and that's where the falling away comes into play -- many do fall away from their Christian religion. However, the true believer can't lose salvation once Jesus has made him/her into the new creation. Nowhere in Scripture is there an example of such a thing occurring and then the new birth re-occurring. What Scripture teaches is eternal security of the true believer, and I believe in eternal security.

Regarding salvation, the evidence that one is saved, such as fruit of the Spirit being produced in one's life, might be minimal or elementary, and so might obedience, but we don't seek to live for Him to be saved or stay saved, but rather because we are saved and will want to live for Him (even if sinning and failure takes place at times).

If someone lacks desire to live for Him or has no evidence of the new life being lived out, then the salvation experience is in question and one ought to examine oneself to make sure he/she is really in the faith.

Another concern is when someone excuses away their failure by trying to explain that failure is ok and normal and can't be helped, and giving reasons why one sinned or keeps sinning. It may be expected that we will sin due to the fact that we live in the flesh, and aren't yet perfect, but that does not make sinning acceptable to God. Confessing sin is an evidence of truly being in the faith. To confess means to agree with God about the sin. Repentance is realizing sin is sin and seeing it for what it is and then turning away from it and to God for forgiveness and cleansing.

There's not many things that bother me more than having a guilty conscience. Just knowing that my sins won't be imputed against me because He bore them and His blood covers them and that He has made full satisfaction for all of them relieves my conscience and gives me peace.

Jesus always did His Father's will. We are to diligently seek to do God's will and not our own will. It was His strongest desire and should be ours as well.

But, again, that's not what saves us. It's evidence that one is saved.

Praying for you!

Permalink Reply by Seek on August 4, 2015 at 9:38pm

I would think what you just said would hold up the OSAS theory.

because there are many who believe they are truly saved who have never really received Christ and aren't known by Him but might have said a prayer and might be very involved in a church and might call themselves Christians and that's where the falling away comes into play

I was thinking of: 1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

To me it says once TRULY saved (did they SAY they believed or did they REALLY believe?), if they really believed they wouldn't have gone back to their old ways. If something like getting upset over a driver who cuts us off causes us to feel bad how much worse should one feel about committing adultery repeatedly? If they don't feel conviction over it then I'd say they never truly accepted Christ. Because you must confess with your mouth AND believe in your heart.

But in order to be OSAS one must first BE saved.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 5, 2015 at 5:13am

Once the new creation, always the new creation. That's the truth.

Permalink Reply by Amanda on August 6, 2015 at 1:05pm

Perhaps this article will help. I know, it's just more reading. However, I really like the parts that say:

James says we all sin in different ways (James 3:2), and that means each of us has what may be called “besetting” sins. Some sins are easier to overcome than others. Some struggle with anger, others with gossip, and others with lying. The point is that each of us has a sin (or some sins) with which we struggle. These besetting sins are often, but not exclusively, habits that we developed during our lives as unbelievers and require more grace and discipline to overcome.

And:

The next part of the process is recognizing our inability to overcome habitual sin and our need to rely on the power of God’s Holy Spirit, who dwells within us. Back to Romans 7. Paul says, “For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh. For I have the desire to do what is right, but not the ability to carry it out” (Romans 7:25). The Christian’s struggle against sin is one in which our ability does not match our desire. That is why we need the power of the Holy Spirit. Paul later says, “If the Spirit of him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, he who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through his Spirit who dwells in you” (Romans 8:11). The Holy Spirit, through God’s Word (John 17:17), works sanctification in the people of God. Habitual sin is overcome as we submit ourselves to God and refuse the temptations of the flesh (James 4:7–8).

And:

Another part of the process of overcoming habitual sin is to change the habits that facilitate it. We have to adopt the attitude of Joseph who, when tempted by Potiphar’s wife to come to bed with her, left the room so quickly that he left his cloak in her hands (Genesis 39:15). We simply must make every effort to run from the things that tempt us to sin, including access to food if we are given to overeating, and access to pornography if we are tempted to sexual sin. Jesus tells us to cut off our hand or pluck out our eye if they “offend” us (Matthew 5:29–30). This means removing from our lives anything, even those things close to us, if they tempt us to sin. In short, we have to change the habits that lead to habitual sin.

http://www.gotquestions.org/habitual-sin.html

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