You don't earn your salvation but maybe you keep it through works.

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by JB on July 30, 2015 at 8:36pm

The works stems from your new nature to give, help others, love with a love that says I don't need physical evidence to prove my faith, because I'm in Christ and it is He that does the works. In other words, I don't quit sinning to give, or to become Holy, and righteous in the sight of God, I am Holy and I am the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus, and I use my holiness and righteousness to do the works, and to quit sinning. Otherwise a person will lean more on his self-efforts to try and please God, rather than, the fact that he is a child of the most high God, and it is not by our works that we are accepted in Christ, but by God’s love and grace through Jesus Christ that we are accepted in the beloved.

JB

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 31, 2015 at 7:34pm

I did not have time to read all your responses in the other forum, but want to comment on two specific things here.

If your Bible reading and prayer life seem like work you need to evaluate your relationship with Jesus. Our prayer life and dedication to the Word of God should flow from a passion (love) for our Lord Jesus, both to know Him better and to learn to walk in His ways as led by the Word and the Spirit in this life. When I travel I look forward to emails and phone calls from my wife. I always take her calls and always read her text/emails. These are never a chore, but rather something I look forward to. How much more should our passion for the Lord be.

Secondly, if it requires works to maintain our salvation then it is still a works salvation and not of grace alone. It is inconceivable for us to be saved by grace and maintained by works. We could not do the works to get saved and we surely will not do the works to stay saved (meaning perfection, for that is God's requirement). We are saved by grace and maintained by grace. Our desire to live for Him is not out of fear in order to retain our salvation, but rather because we love Him and desire to please Him.

Permalink Reply by JB on July 31, 2015 at 7:52pm

Romans 11:6 (KJV)
⁶ And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on July 31, 2015 at 7:56pm

Amen!!!

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 1, 2015 at 3:51pm

Gregory,

I think, IMO, you have it backwards. You work on your faith and that leads to a deeper relationship. It is as we grow in faith that we develop a deeper relationship with Him. There is no shortcut to the process. We engage in His Word and in prayer. We seek to live a life out that is pleasing to God constraining self and the desires of the flesh along the way.

I have a second comment that will be posted in your direct response to me.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 1, 2015 at 3:57pm

A.W. Tozer believed that no one was ever filled with the Spirit of God and did not know it. I believe that if one is not sure they are saved there is a strong possibility that they are not. One of the Holy Spirit's responsibility is to affirm our salvation. I do not know if you are or if you are not saved, and thus will not try to convince you that you are ... that is God's responsibility. I can only point to what the Word of God says and trust the Holy Spirit enlightens the person along the way.

Regarding knowing the facts as you pointed out they in of them self do not assure salvation. We can know all these things intellectually and still be spiritually blinded or by self will (willingly or unknowingly) be blocking the work of the Holy Spirit. We have to examine ourselves and look to see what may be hindering the salvation or growth in faith. Is there something that we are not willing to let go of? Is there something that we think God is wrong about and thus are living in a form of rebellion? The second question is more common than most people think. We like A, B, C, but cannot agree with God on D. God never gives us that option. He is always right and we must be willing to accept His truth and desire to align with Him even when it is not our preference.

I am not saying any of this is you, but giving you some food for thought.

Permalink Reply by Seek on August 2, 2015 at 5:34am

I'm going to disagree with Tozer. I usually like his quotes, but because I went back and forth in my own questions of whether or not I was saved, I found that it took lots of time in reading and prayer to finally know that I was.

Romans 12:2 (KJV)

2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

John 8:32 (KJV)

32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

2 Timothy 2:15 (KJV)

15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

There are many scriptures telling us to study in order to discern, rightly divide the word, to know the truth and be set free. Paul even speaks to those who knew the truth that were being led away. How could you be led away if you know the Spirit is in you? Babe's and children in Christ believed the message they heard yet until they had studied until receiving revelation, they were easily led astray.

It took me years to know without doubting. Satan still tries throwing in doubts when I'm tired, stressed or under heavy burdens. But I recognize those doubts much quicker now and can quickly shoot them down.

When I accepted Christ, there wasn't a shred of doubt, yet as I faced one hardship after another, doubts would creep in. I studied the Word because I needed to know the truth and not waffle and struggle with these doubts. One day I knew I was saved but when a bad situation arose, I was pulled into despair and questioned.

I think back to Gideon. He didn't believe in Himself, but God gave him signs so that He might believe that it WAS God and trust what He said about him. Or the father who said "I believe. Help my unbelief."

I now know that even when I don't "feel" the Spirit is with me that He will never leave me nor forsake me and that even when I am unfaithful (or lacking faith), HE is faithful.

I believe Tozer, like many others, never struggled with their faith because they knew who they were in Christ, but some don't know because they don't know enough of the Word to counteract lies they had already come to believe. We have to renew our minds. Something we wouldn't need to do if our minds weren't full of wrong beliefs.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2015 at 6:34am

For clarity ... the Tozer comment relates to being filled with the Holy Spirit and not salvation (his comment was only the first sentence). I stated that it is my belief that if we are not sure about our salvation then we have reason to question our salvation and need to seek to be sure. We should not be left in a state of uncertainty.

Hope that helps clarify.

Permalink Reply by Seek on August 2, 2015 at 8:24am

It was where you said "I believe that if one is not sure they are saved there is a strong possibility that they are not." I initially thought that was part of Tozer's quote but on rereading it seems this was you speaking maybe? All I know is that I know many who struggle with that and I did too but I don't see it as being a strong possibility they're not but more so a possibility they are. I have wondered why would one who loves the dark worry about whether they following Christ. I feel like if they're questioning then they have a desire but struggle with wrong teachings and their own actions and personality that don't seem to be loving at times. Rather than question the questioning, I have learned to ask myself am I bearing fruit? And it doesn't have to be massive but is there any change at all in me and am I still in the Word. I tend to focus more on when I don't act right towards others, or when I ruminate on a hurt, than I do on what has changed about me.

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on August 2, 2015 at 5:24pm

I guess I'm going to throw a monkey wrench into this.  I've noticed that different believers had different opinions on this.  How do we know that this isn't just another opinion?Answer: What does the Word of God say in context when taken at face value?

I do not believe that speaking in tongues is the evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit.

There are numerous verses that speak of our position and new life in Christ. Nothing talks about being born again again or even again, again and again. I do not have time right now to list the various verses, but will come back to this as soon as possible. In the meantime look for one example in Scripture of a person who is identified as saved and then lost their salvation and was then born again again ...

Permalink Reply by JB on August 1, 2015 at 6:37pm

Gregory,

 There are those who believe that the Word of God is like magic, just because they say the right things; things will happen. Like MK.11:22-24,saying unto this mountain, be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea, and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith. Therefore I say unto you, what things so ever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

The key to receiving, is believing and not doubting in your heart. Everything we receive from God, is by Grace through faith, we have access by faith into this grace. Ro.5:1-2

So when we read the Word of God, as if it really is God speaking to us, and that becomes reality, rather that theory, then believing what God says we can do; by faith we speak what He says. When we hear what He is saying and then by faith believe it in our heart, then things spoken in faith will respond to your words.

Remember Jesus says in Jo 5:30, by  Myself I can do nothing, I judge only as I hear.  So do you believe you can hear God speaking through His Word? The Word speaks to our spirit, the flesh cannot hear (hearing they hear not…) or receive the Word of God.

The following scriptures, must be believed, not just read. One can read the entire bible and still be an atheist. I knew one, my neighbor’s father. I don’t know how he believed before he died, I can’t judge.  

Ephesians 1:3-7 (KJV)
³ Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who hath blessed us with all spiritual blessings in heavenly places in Christ:
⁴ According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:
⁵ Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
⁶ To the praise of the glory of his grace, wherein he hath made us accepted in the beloved.
⁷ In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

John 6:35-41 (KJV)
³⁵ And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
³⁶ But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe not.
³⁷ All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
³⁸ For I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.
³⁹ And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
⁴⁰ And this is the will of him that sent me, that everyone which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Romans 10:12-13 (KJV)
¹² For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
¹³ For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.

2 Peter 3:9 (KJV)
⁹ The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

1 Corinthians 1:30 (KJV)
³⁰ But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

Ephesians 1:13 (KJV)
¹³ In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

Be blessed.

JB

 

 

Permalink Reply by JB on August 2, 2015 at 9:27pm

Don’t feel bad Gregory, neither can anyone else, intellectually. It makes very little difference which translation you use, it’s the Spirit that reveals truth anyway. God spoke to Balaam through the mouth of an ass. I’m sure He can speak to us through many ways to get our attention as well.

It’s the Elizabethan English that’s difficult to comprehend, I don’t think Jesus used it either. It’s like praying in the Spirit, we don’t know exactly what we are saying either, but we still get edified by it. Building up yourselves in your most holy faith, praying in the Holy Ghost. Jude 1:20

The Word of God is Spirit, life and truth.

JB   

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