Why God listens to the slanderer`s assumptions and experiences a Job by such terrible methods?

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 1, 2013 at 11:31am

It does sound like the battle of the gods in a myth of the gods. The gods battling & doing it with men as if we were play toys to them. Back to reality though, God only listened to the slanderer. He knew the truth. He knew he was the father of lies.  To say why is a good question. I would love to hear some of the responses. Great discussion Victory.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on April 2, 2013 at 7:26am

I wouldn't say He listened to him at all, but that He wanted to prove to satan himself that he's lost the battle.  And secondly, He perhaps had something in Job He wanted to change as well.  Job worshiped God, Job was righteous and upstanding, but Job also had likely never seen adversity to show him his true feelings about God and God's power.

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Permalink Reply by Seek on April 3, 2013 at 6:03am

EEP, You deleted your reply Tammy!!!!  Grrrrrrrrrrrr, and I had a really good response.  So I'll give it anyway.  HA!

God listened to Abraham about Sodom and Gomorrah, because Abraham was a friend and He valued his opinion.  Yet God had already decided what He was going to do, but He did agree to save Lot at Abraham's asking.  Why I say however that God didn't listen to satan is...He does not value satan's opinion.  He did not decide to allow satan to do these things to Job because satan made a good argument, but perhaps for many reasons that we can speculate on or ones we cannot. 

Those I speculate on is that He was showing satan that he didn't hold as much power as he thought he did.  That He was instilling a greater reverential awe in Job.  Job knew OF God, but did he KNOW Him?  That He knew that 2,000+ years later, there would be those who thought that bad things happening to a person meant the person must be sinning and God wanted a record to show that wasn't the case.

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Permalink Reply by Tammy on April 3, 2013 at 2:53pm

Sorry. lol. I was in a strange frame of mind that night so I thought I needed to delete my replies. 

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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on April 3, 2013 at 2:58pm

I must admit that I have not fully followed this forum and will inject a quick thought to part of what you originally posted.

 

God knows what we need, but do we REALLY know that we need God? How often do we trust too much in self seeking God to only make up the difference? Coming to Him in prayer is a way of us demonstrating our dependence on Him. When God answers prayers it is a faithbuilding experience and it builds our dependence on Him.

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Permalink Reply by Amanda on April 3, 2013 at 6:07pm

Hi Vicky. You've asked a big question and I apologize for the long answer. Here goes:

I see that Job had a fairly good understanding of God -- for even God says of Job, After the Lord had said these things to Job, he said to Eliphaz the Temanite, “I am angry with you and your two friends, because you have not spoken the truth about me, as my servant Job has." (Job 42:7). Job was not guilty of any sin, not even of being self righteous. His friends were guilty. They said things to Job about God that weren't true and near the end of the book, God asks Job to make a sacrifice for his friends and Job does and God accepts the sacrifice. This obviously means Job's friends had sinned in what they were saying about God. 

What I see is that Job struggles with understanding divine justice. What I mean is, Job knows he is not suffering for some wickedness he committed. That kind of suffering for some sort of sin we commit is very understandable. Job’s friends even assume Job has sinned. They tell him things like, “Whoever perished being innocent?” and “Where were the righteous cut off?” Job will not accept what they imply because his biggest struggle is with not being able to understand why God has allowed all of these calamities in his life that have come upon him knowing that Job is righteous. Job has a good understanding of God but not a complete understanding of the attributes of God (as many of us do not).

Job’s friends perceive his misfortune as proof that Job has sinned and they believe all he has to do is admit guilt and repent and God will surely forgive him. Job maintains the fact that he has not sinned. We know, as the reader, that Job is right because we read in the prologue the conversation between God and Satan. We know the reason Job is suffering is because he is righteous. God Himself says that Job is righteous. 

Job is grappling with God’s justice. IMO this is what the story of Job is all about -- that God is a just God even when the righteous suffer.

Many read the Book of Job and accuse Job of being proud and self righteous. Even his friends stop answering him after he gives them a very detailed account of his righteous ways. His friends try to persuade him of his own guilt. Job does not yield. Job says, “Though he slay me, yet will I hope in him; I will surely defend my ways to his face.” Job 13:15, NIV. This is not pride -- this is honesty. Even if God kills him, he is going to hope in God but also not going to say he sinned when he knows he hasn’t sinned. 

But, Job does feel conviction and does repent of something near the end.

Job 42
New International Version (NIV)
1 Then Job replied to the Lord:
2 “I know that you can do all things;
no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
3 You asked, ‘Who is this that obscures my plans without knowledge?’
Surely I spoke of things I did not understand,
things too wonderful for me to know.
4 “You said, ‘Listen now, and I will speak;
I will question you,
and you shall answer me.’
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.
6 Therefore I despise myself
and repent in dust and ashes.”

It makes me think that most people don't really see God as well as we think we do. I think many, and myself included, often speak of things we don't understand and things too wonderful for us to know as if we do understand and know. We suffer and think this suffering is undeserved and that means God is at fault since we know we are not at fault. Is it possible that even “undeserved” suffering -- if there is such a thing, and it looks like Job’s suffering was undeserved -- is a work of God’s justice, too, just like deserved suffering? Is it that Job's perception of suffering, as well as his friends' perception of it (and ours), is what is distorted, or a lie? 

That's what I think the Book of Job is about. It points to Jesus, who knew no sin but suffered more than anyone has ever suffered on this earth -- an Innocent Sufferer. Jesus was an innocent sufferer. He took our Hell for us on the cross and died for our sins. Yet, there have been times when I've told God that I don't understand why God is so strict and why God's standards are so high and I've told God that He expects too much from people. But do you know what God's answer is to me about that? 

God knew from the beginning that man would never measure up to His standards so the lamb was slain from the foundation of the world. The death of Jesus was determined before Adam and Eve ever sinned and before the Fall of mankind. The Son of God chose to take on human form and to live a perfect life without ever sinning Himself and then to take on human sin and to pay the penalty for that sin. God paid God's penalty -- the wages of sin is death? Why? 

Isaiah 53, NIV
10 Yet it was the Lord’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer,
    and though the Lord makes[c] his life an offering for sin,
he will see his offspring and prolong his days,
    and the will of the Lord will prosper in his hand.
11 After he has suffered,
    he will see the light of life[d] and be satisfied[e];
by his knowledge[f] my righteous servant will justify many,
    and he will bear their iniquities.
12 Therefore I will give him a portion among the great,[g]
    and he will divide the spoils with the strong,[h]
because he poured out his life unto death,
    and was numbered with the transgressors.
For he bore the sin of many,
    and made intercession for the transgressors.

John 3:16
New International Version (NIV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.

God did for us what we could never do for ourselves. Jesus is our Suffering Servant. The story of Job points to Christ. I can almost hear Satan telling the Father the same things about Jesus that he said about Job. Job didn't fail. Neither did Jesus.

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