Why can one not call another member by their denomination?

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 6:47am

Hi Amanda!!

 

Happy to hear from you too!

 

Well, guess what? I had a slight change of plans and ended up going to Europe instead! LOL...I am leaving for Israel on the 15th of January though. This time tickets are booked and paid for, hotels and everything taken care of....  I am looking forward to it.

 

Have a great week!

Yael

 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 2, 2011 at 1:33pm

Yael,

 

The answer to your question is as follows:

 

We do not pretend that we share the same exact beliefs. Many share the same essential beliefs and we tend to differ on secondary topics and doctrine.

 

With that said, I would like to know the point of your post? What is your real complaint? How are you feeling restricted? With that information I may be able to address your real concern.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 7:13am

LT,

OK, I think I must have expressed myself poorly when I used the word 'pretend'... But I do notice a lot of reluctance to address the problem of des-unity...At least I see it as a problem...others might not.

 

Anyway, I guess I don’t have a complaint, as you put it, I was just making an observation....  I am just concerned that when I read the scriptures I see that Jesus talks a lot about THE TRUTH. He makes a few promises and says that the Holy Spirit would lead his apostles in the TRUTH.

 

He was a teacher, a Rabbi... He says to the 12 "As the Father sent me I send you"... Meaning that he sent them as heralds of the good news of God, not many different versions the good news..."Those who listen to you, listen to me, Those who reject you, reject me and the one who sent me..."

 

To me Jesus is clearly saying there is ONE Truth. NOT two, not ten or 50 thousand! His church is not a 'learning' church, but a teaching one. 

 

For this reason Paul tirelessly condemned those who taught anything that was not in accordance with what Jesus  taught to his apostles… “Hold fast to what you've heard from me…”

 

If I had to say one reason for my objections to Bible-believing Christianity, this would be it: Contradictory teachings. There is no unity, no teaching consensus, but the authority of each persons interpretation of the Scriptures (which they claim to be their sole authority, but which in fact fails in practice).

 

Had I not had so many objections to the catholic church, ( not theological, but moral ones, because of  their Nazi sympathy), I would say that the catholic model as the only way out for the problem of denominational craze in Christianity...

 

TAKE CARE

Yael

 



Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 3, 2011 at 1:46pm

 

Yael,

 

The good news, the Gospel is the same among ALL Christian denominations.

 

The Gospel  

 

 

Jesus’ virgin birth
Perfect life
His death
His resurrection
His glorification
He ascended

 

In order for a new denomination to be consider Christian they must be in agreement with the above central truth of our faith. There are more doctrines we consider primary. As we have told you before in other discussions we differ in secondary issues. So there are not many versions of the good news within all the Christian Churches. Any organization that deviates from the Gospel is not considered Christian, but a cult.

 

>>But I do notice a lot of reluctance to address the problem of des-unity...At least I see it as a problem...others might not.

 

I just did a Google search using: unity in the body of Christ, it produced 88 pages of articles dealing with the divisions in the body of Christ, how to get rid of those etc... So I do not know how you assume we do not deal with the topic. Here in AAG we Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace (Eph 4:3). So we do not ignore that there is differences among us, hence the Forum discussions to help us reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ. 

 

>>To me Jesus is clearly saying there is ONE Truth. NOT two, not ten or 50 thousand! His church is not a 'learning' church, but a teaching one. 

 

We are extremely aware of it friend and hence the Forums to help us diminish those.

>>If I had to say one reason for my objections to Bible-believing Christianity, this would be it: Contradictory teachings. There is no unity, no teaching consensus, but the authority of each person’s interpretation of the Scriptures (which they claim to be their sole authority, but which in fact fails in practice).

 

You are mistaken Yael. The bible is a big book. A compilation of 66 individual books written in different places, by people of different backgrounds with great spans of time between them in authorship dates, yet it harmonizes within itself perfectly and so it is with the body of Christ. Our unity does not come from agreeing in every single doctrinal matter, but in the primary doctrines and we strive to come to unity in the secondary ones, but all along there is the unity of the Spirit and love we share among us, because - There is one body and one Spirit—just as you were called to one hope when you were called— 5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism; 6 one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.

>>Had I not had so many objections to the catholic church, ( not theological, but moral ones, because of their Nazi sympathy)

  

I really do not know what you are talking about by saying the RCC is a Nazi sympathizer, so I cannot comment on that, but the answer is to rightly divide the word of God, to have a teachable spirit and not prideful and stubborn.

  

>>denominational craze in Christianity.

 

I am surprise you ignore the fact that Jesus stated that many false teachers would arise, so is no big surprise for us Christians that there are many out there teaching error. It creates problems, but God remains in control and Jesus remains the head of the body.

 

Blessings to you friend.

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 5:08pm

David, I just had a chance to read your previous reply.

You said this:

 

Our unity does not come from agreeing in every single doctrinal matter, but in the primary doctrines and we strive to come to unity in the secondary ones, but all along there is the unity of the Spirit and love we share among us, because...

 

Can you please tell me which are the Primary and Secondary doctrines? And why is it ok to disagree on the Second ones and not on the Primary ones?

 

Thanks

Permalink Reply by roy ruser on January 2, 2011 at 9:44pm

hi Yael

the problem with denominations you ask ?, i think i could liken it to mans conditioning, explanation from childhood we are told to obey our parents, teachers, (if your raised in a church), the pastor, the minister, the priest, etc. so you are to listen and obey, with out question, but, many parents lie to us, example santa claus, they also lie for us, my little boy/girl, wouldn't do that, when in fact they did do it, we don't want to take responsibility, we are taught, it's not our fault, we go to school we are taught by teachers who we think are to tell us the truth, but that's not the case they teach us what they have been taught, weather it is the truth or not, example evolution, nothing but a pack of lies, now a days in Canada they are teaching grade ones little Johnny comes home to 2 daddy's and this is good, in other words 2 homosexuals, now if 2 men or 2 women choose, to reject the natural design of God, which is one man and one women, to reproduce after there kind, that's up to them, they are living in disobedience to God, and he will judge, but don't teach young children that your sin is good or natural, because it isn't,  proof positive, put all the queer men on a huge island with no women, what happens, when that generation dies off, well, that's the end of them, they can't reproduce, same effect for a island full of lesbians, these are just a few of the lies told to us, many times if we question the lies, we are, looked down upon, scolded, rejected, put in jail, ( different lies different countries ) etc., to put it simply, when i question something that someone says, the unspoken response, is who do you think you are calling me a liar, or "the look" don't you dare question me, the way i see this playing out in denominations, is to begin with many people are lazy, or too busy, example Mary and Martha, one was busy preparing food etc. one sat listening to Jesus, and many don't spend the time to do as The Holy Spirit  says study to show your self approved rightfully dividing the word of God, another area is if a person is involved in a sin usually it won't be spoke of from behind a pulpit, example gluttony spoke of in various passages of scripture, but when was the last time you heard a sermon on it,  i remember maybe one sermon on gluttony, why ? i think because many in this country Canada, are fat, and we don't like to hear it, because we get convicted, i my self put on too much weight for me i went up to 155 lbs. my normal and comfortable weight is 130 lbs. so my clothes didn't fit i felt sluggish etc. well there are many diets out there some might work some don't, i am not interested in them, i know what works, unless you have a true medical problem, at which point obesity is not sin, but a body malfunction, in other words one is not stuffing them selfs,  when i was younger i could eat like a horse, so to speak, and not put on weight, but, as i got older, i continued to eat  the same, and started putting on the weight, knowing what works, i decided to eat less, of the same food i liked, what do you know' it took about 2 1/2 months to take off 25 lbs. i eat, pretty good food, but, also what some call bad, if your overweight, chips, chocolate, ice cream, etc. example, i use to eat a bag of chips now i eat a handful, the problem with gluttony is discipline, if, i discipline my self, not to over indulge, i'll keep the weight off , if not, i'll put it back on, so lets start at the beginning of a denomination, someone gets a hold of a truth, more than likely they come to know Jesus as there Lord and Savour, i say "more than likely" as there are those  who call them selfs a denomination, (i am really not sure about), that aside, they speak of the truth they have just learned (but sometimes they see a truth that seems to contradict there truth and they don't except the new truth ,or even check it out, because the first truth they learned is the only truth for them, and those they teach), others listen before long this person is the leader,  it becomes a denotation, they start to put rules in order because the bible says everything is to be done decently and in order, most denominations get this one, in capital letters, in the denomination i recieved jesus into my heart to be my Lord and Savour, they ran there meetings according to "Robert's rules of order" a total world philosophy, they choose there deacons and elders by a motion from the floor and a seconder, thus they totally disregard the scriptures, when i got saved, i raised my hands to the Lord, because i was so excited, i got told very quickly get those hands down, i thought i had committed, the unpardonable sin, i started to study the scriptures, discovering the scriptures say to lift up holy hands, meaning i am made holy by Jesus blood and righteousness, nothing i could do, now in that church i stopped raising my hands at least that they couldn't see, about 1/4 of that church may have had a relation with Jesus, the rest had a religion,  and kept a tight  reign on it, this was a baptist church in Canada, but not all baptist churches are the same, i have been in a baptist church in the U.S. where you have the freedom to shout, raise your hands, and dance, before the Lord, as the scriptures say to, but a lot of denominational churches i have been in are equivalent to a funeral service, not what God has called us to, now if your in a denomination you believe what they teach, if you don't they will soon ask you to leave, now i had been raised catholic so i believed what they taught me, you study the catechism, not the bible, and listen to the priest or nuns without question, i did, i was an alter boy, but i got disillusioned, they told me i was a sinner, lie, steel, lust, etc. they told me to go to confession i did, the priest told me to do many hail marries and are fathers, each time i went, this is how the priest would take away my sins, but it didn't work, he could not remove the guilt of my sin, i got disillusioned and left, it wasn't  until many years later that Jesus came into my heart taking away the guilt of my sin, what no man could do, except him because he never sinned, all other men are sinners, and fall short of the glory of God, the Anglican church is pretty close to the catholic church, only a couple of differences, but i was up north of toronto camping, Huntsville area and went to an anglican church, you would knot know that it was an anglican church except for the name on the sign, the minister had become born again, according to scripture, and so most of there congregation had also come to Jesus, i knew another anglican minister who came to know Jesus, he left the denomination but keeps his membership up by paying a dollar a year, which allows him to speak in there annual meeting, he tells them Jesus heals, giving testimonies, in many denominations you get involved doing a little, you don't make waves, you get put in a place of leader ship, example i was teaching sunday school,in a denomination, i was teaching on false religions, the Holy spirit gave me the lessen, it was all scripture, i had each person read 2 scriptures at a time, i said Nothing except what would you like in your coffee or tea, for the entire class, no comment by any one only reading, the next week, a deacon who had not been in the meeting approached me, and said to me, " you will not preach that around here " indicating he would have me removed, i said "you can kick me out of here ,but you won't stop me preaching the word of God", God sent me to a interdenominational bible collage, where i heard the " word" from different denominations, which i questioned, if i could poke holes in there teaching with a different scripture then i wanted answers, i then had to search and search and search, until i found the truth, the reason was, i wanted to know what the word of God said, so i could stand on it , not the word of man, one teacher called me his thorn in the flesh, now many sat in the class day after day, never asking questions, many sit in churches never asking questions just excepting what is said, never checking it out, when i went to bible collage i didn't go to get a degree, (long story behind it), i went with my family totally on faith, through circumstances to long to get into at this time, i ended up after 5 years with a B.R.E. pastoral minor, degree, to me the degree means nothing, what counts is am i walking closer with the Lord, many have said why am i not a paster, i have the degree, well i could apply to different denominations, say i agree with there doctrines and get the job if they like me, as long as i don't rock the boat, so to speak, but i would become a hireling, like a lot in different denominations are, but the only ones who will be successful in Gods eyes are those whom God calls and equips, the others may make money , have power,  and prestige, on earth but nothing in heaven, and may not enter, it is written "some preach Christ for money", etc. others preach because they love Jesus, they are the ones who will be rewarded, for obedience, God wants to use us how he choses he knows more then us, the foolishness of God is wiser than all of mans wisdom, we use to have a funny one in bible collage, we say the lazy student just opens the bible and reads, "judas hung himself", says no, no, can't be, opens it again, it says, "go do likewise", no, no, can't be, opens it again, it says, "what ever you do do quickly", but a good real example is, did God create the world in 6-24 hour days, or 6000 years, or 6 long periods of time, as this is what these are the meaning of the word

"day" means,  in  Hebrew, the context dictates which meaning that is to be used, all 6 days of creation, say "there was morning and evening", each day of creation, thus pretty simple, 6 - 24 hour days, all one has to do is read the scriptures,to see this truth, but, i am always amassed at how many won't study, or won't, believe what the scriptures say, because of what someone has taught them, "we are to study to show ourselves approved rightly dividing the word of God" so as niki says just do it , there is much more that could be said about denominations, but don't fret over them, Jesus said "He (being the rock, not Peter as the catholics are taught, if one has questions about this, read the scriptures before and after if you don't find this truth write me i'll show you,) will build His church and the gates of hell will not prevail against it", i hope this is helpful to you, let me know,

roy ruser

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 11:40am

Aslan

 

No good using irony. That doesnt help.

 

Are you saying that it is OK to go about twisting things, as long as one firmly believes to be following Christ to the letter?

 

Do you think that heretics and Apostates see themselves are such?

 

Please....

 

 

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 5:01pm

Aslan,  see what you mean...but I SOMEHOW feel that you dont see what I mean...

These things can never be taken from granted.

I've just got a book that talks about Jesus as he presented himself: in the light of the OT.

I am really hoping it will help me answer some questions.

Thanks anyways for your input.

 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on January 3, 2011 at 12:11pm

Yael-

 

Is good to see you back. How was your trip? But what is not good is reading negativity into the comments of the members. There is no irony in Aslan's comment. It looks like you have come back with a loaded shot gun friend and that is not a welcome attitude in the forums. Please modify your approach. This is a Christian community and not just another social network. We speak about real issues which at times can created heated discussions, but the way you are approaching the members here is not the best one Yael.

 

>>Are you saying that it is OK to go about twisting things, as long as one firmly believes to be following Christ to the letter?

 

You asked the above from a sister who simply said: how about being a foller of Jesus first. Please modify your approach. We are happy to have you here and your desire to learn about our faith is welcome, but you need to come at us in a more respectful and positive manner. By all means ask the difficult questions, we are not offended by them and there are very good answers for all your inquiries, but how you go about asking those questions makes a world of a difference.

 

Thank you in advance for your understanding.

 

David V.

Volunteer NET Moderator

Permalink Reply by Michael Vernon McEntire on January 3, 2011 at 12:43pm

Yael, I understand what you say, and I suggest that if you really want to know the truth, then you are asking the wrong questions.  If you believe that Yah-El Adonai is real, and you are wondering about Christianity, then stop looking at Christians and look at Christ.  Your question should be, "Is Jesus of Nazareth the Messiah?"  If you are not a Humanist, then you know that observing the behavior of people is never the proper way to discern the Truth.  If you ask why it is that all Christians do not believe the same doctrines, then the answer is, "Because they are only people!"  The Truth is not a doctrine; the Truth is a Person.  Jesus of Nazareth claimed to be the Truth.  A real Christian is someone who loves Jesus, not someone who loves a doctrine or a denomination.  Again, the Truth is a Person.  Many skeptics die having never stopped looking for excuses not to accept the Person.  Yael, are you looking for reasons not to accept Jesus?

Permalink Reply by Yael Levi-Bénédict on January 3, 2011 at 5:02pm

Michael,

 

Thanks for your sympathy.

 

You've given me a great piece of advice. I will concentrate more on Christ and let my heart  and God lead me.

 

Shalom!

 

Permalink Reply by Leonard T on January 3, 2011 at 5:35pm

Yael,

 

Michael has truly given you some wonderful advise.

 

Regarding the differences, each case would have to be looked at in order to determine the cause of the difference. There are a lot of reasons, but Michael hit it on the head with "because they were only people." The churches that Paul wrote to were works in progress as we are today.

 

Lord Bless,

LT

• ‹ Previous
• 1
• 2
• 3
• Next ›
• Page