All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
When are we no longer new Christians and can we learn from them?
In last Sundays group, my friend Michael, saved one month before I was, said he's a new Christian. I spoke to him about this later. I guess due to his younger age, he's not as bothered with wanting to grow up fast. And I need to not be bothered by it myself even at my age as it only causes agitation.
Then in last night's Saturday group we were discussing spending time in the Word. Michael admitted he doesn't do this enough and finds it slacking with his schedule. But then our praise and worship leader Pastor Jamie said he too has trouble in that area. He feels led to worship and spends much of his time in the music ministry and church work that he doesn't spend enough time in the Word cause he wants to worship so much. It seems as if nearly everyone there doesn't spend every day in scripture. And I've felt condemned if I missed a day. But God gave me something for Jamie even as long as he's done this. I said Jamie, reading the Word, spending time getting to know God IS worship. Something he and others hadn't considered.
Sooo...when are we no longer new and when can we not learn even from new? Jesus said to be as little children...innocent, trusting, always learning. But we're also to grow up. Sometimes though I think we can forget the simplest beginnings when we get so caught up in wanting to grow up. So part of me wants meat and part hopes to always remain a child.
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Bless you, David. I'm blessed to have you as my brother in Christ.
I'm a little dense, well, a lot but spiritual truth is given by God and not based on logic, as you often say :)
Colossians 3 : 10 explains that the new self is being renewed in knowledge after the image of its creator. Being renewed in knowledge means a process.
The mind, or intellect, consists of attitudes, perspectives, thoughts and so forth. We renew the mind with the Word of God, through reading and studying it and praying for the wisdom and the discernment and the understanding of it. Romans 12:2 says, "Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God" (NKJV). We ask God to shed light upon our paths and to enable us to walk in the light that He gives us. I don't believe anyone understands all the truth that is in the Bible but there are essential truths that all can know, which are fundamental to the Christian faith. When we are born again, we still have so very much to learn but the Spirit is within, causing us to live by what pleases God in a growing relationship, much like the way parents raise children.
For me, it's been a journey where wrong beliefs are being replaced with God's truths. There is only one truth -- God's. I'm still learning and I want to be biblically correct and I know we cannot know everything there is to know. I can only know in part. 1 Cor 13:12. Yet, I do know that we were created for so much more than all of this and we are being changed, and, yes, we are not to be passive.
I like the way Max Lucado says the following:
"Salvation is the process that’s done, that’s secure, that no one can take away from you. Sanctification is the lifelong process of being changed from one degree of glory to the next, growing in Christ, putting away the old, taking on the new.
"The Psalmist David would tell us that those who have been redeemed will say so! If we’re not saying so, perhaps it’s because we’ve forgotten what it is like to be redeemed. Let the redeemed of the earth say so!"
-Walking With the Savior
From Thomas Nelson's Grace for the Moment: Morning and Evening Devotional [2008] [Max Lucado]
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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I'm a firm believer that Bible studies must be accompanied by action. Each passage you study should prompt you to start doing what the word says. God is not concerned for theoretical giants, he wants people who will do what they learn, each step at a time. Far too many people want to focus on learning, but never taking action from what they learn.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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We had a group that seemed to be really receptive Saturday night on the topic of reading the Word. Even the group leader admitted he'd had trouble with it, which is why he felt led to lead the group. It forced him to study the lesson. He said he'd never really studied the Bible like that before, looking up related passages, terminology, etc.
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Thread #1:
Two comments.
Comment 1:
A. The Church Side: Thus the struggle is a interesting one. The church can try to offer deeper life teachings, and yes, start with the foundation ... yet 80% or more will not come. The church then tries to figure out how best to reach and retain these people and in the process often set aside the foundational message since only a small portion will come. (Note: most Sunday school classes and small groups teach Bible stories or a life application (of sorts), but often do not get into the basics, the fundamentals).
B. The Attendee Side: The very thing that the new believer (or at least the person who recently said a prayer) needs is the very things that they reject. Thus, this rejection puts the lack of teaching and the lack of attendance on a downward spiral that feeds off of each other resulting in a negative outcome. More and more churches are moving away from Sunday School, Sunday Night, Wednesday Night and Prayer Meetings. This is a sad situation.
Comment 2:
It is sad to note that your churches average of 20% engaging is higher than most churches get.
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I'm getting better at this new thread thingie.
The very thing that the new believer (or at least the person who recently said a prayer) needs is the very things that they reject. Thus, this rejection puts the lack of teaching and the lack of attendance on a downward spiral that feeds off of each other resulting in a negative outcome. More and more churches are moving away from Sunday School, Sunday Night, Wednesday Night and Prayer Meetings. This is a sad situation.
One thing my Pastor said he'll do is preach even if there's only one shows up on Wednesday night. He has enough backup help now that even if he cannot, someone can always step in and give a sermon. We did do away with Sunday night services in favor of the in-home groups though, but it was also part of a workaround of some sort so that the children's church ministry might attend a Wednesday night service since they were never able to sit in on services. We now have a larger children's ministry as well though so they can split things up a bit.
I'm not sure so many reject it though as they simply don't know. I partially grew up in church but didn't know the basics because I never really listened nor read the Bible. Then after, I got so confused about things trying to figure them out from books and sermons. I tried asking others but their ideas were as varied. And yet I never considered what was essential so it wasn't something I ever asked anyone and instead just learned as I went.
We have an altar ministry that used to speak with any individual who gave their life to Christ and they would get their name and information to keep in contact with them, but people got busy and stopped getting these names or didn't pass them onto the New Converts class or we could've followed up with them.
It is sad to note that your churches average of 20% engaging is higher than most churches get.
Yikes! Higher? It may be the area actually. Cause I think most churches here are like that, judging by the number of cars in the parking lots. You gotta remember we're kinda in the Bible belt here.
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I'm not sure so many reject it though as they simply don't know.
By "reject" I simply mean that they have a choice and most choose to not partake.
I partially grew up in church but didn't know the basics because I never really listened nor read the Bible.
That is often the case.
Then after, I got so confused about things trying to figure them out from books and sermons.
At the root of that confusion I am confident, but cannot prove it, is that you were being influenced by a wide variety of teachers who come at the Bible from different approaches (i.e. Word of God - word about God; Liberal - fundamental - something in between; Allegoric - Literal - Face Value; Exegesis - Eisegesis; True Christian - False Teacher: etc ...). I know I beat some of these things into the ground, but these issues are a major part of what causes the major confusion in the church today IMO. In my message this week I spent ample time venting about this confusion in the church and some of what I see here on AAG that troubles me.
We have an altar ministry that used to speak with any individual who gave their life to Christ and they would get their name and information to keep in contact with them, but people got busy and stopped getting these names or didn't pass them onto the New Converts class or we could've followed up with them.
Or the new convert (if that is what really happened) did not come or come for long or did not want to be bothered. It is a long walk and we have to be patient with people, but it is discouraging when so many say they want Jesus, but never really attempt to follow Him. They tend to want all the good stuff from Him, but want to continue living their life the way they want and often do not want to be bothered with all this other stuff.
This may not come across as intended, but will say it and hope it does. Those who have not spent time in ministry and/or on a ministry team do not understand the struggles the church and the pastor face today living in a society that has devalued Jesus, the church and the Word of God. Jesus is still God, the church is still His bride and the Word is still the Word of God, but most openly reject, some openly attack, and many attempt to mock all of the above. The church is infiltrated with wolves in sheep clothing understanding that in these instances darkness masquerades as angels of light. With all the external pressure and internal corruption the church experiences it is amazing that the church, the body of Christ still stands ... but for God!!!
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What I was meaning by their not rejecting it was that they didn't know where to get answers. I was attending class and getting lessons that would best be described as the meat but there was none feeding milk...you're saved now what? And usually that would be answered with you need to come to church, read your Bible, be baptized....ta da!....start tithing.
The questions in my mind that I didn't know how to express or who to ask were: why am I feeling like everything I do is wrong, why do I still have trouble with certain behaviors, is "this a sin", why do I keep hearing negative thoughts, why are scriptures I'm reading seemingly condemning me...ie: verses on the righteous had me thinking I wasn't righteous because I wasn't able to do all the things scripture was saying to live like...I still battled hurt, anger, timidity, etc.
I know our pastor is one person and he's tried. He started assigning everyone an elder team but the teams either left to other churches, took I'll (such as Pastor Jack had a heart attack and has been in a wheelchair since) that it never really accomplished what it was meant to do. And the life groups but you can't get enough willing to open their homes to it or teach it and sometimes not enough interest.
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