All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
What is love?
What is love?
It is one of the most difficult questions for the mankind. Centuries have passed by, relationships have bloomed and so has love. But no one can give the proper definition of love. To some Love is friendship set on fire for others Maybe love is like luck. You have to go all the way to find it. No matter how you define it or feel it, love is the eternal truth in the history of mankind.
What is Love?
Is the friends I have, thinks I own?
Be together, share your joy and sorrow, understand each other, provide space to each other, but always be there for each others need. And surely love will blossom to strengthen your relationship with your matter of affection.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carla on
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Hi Amanda and LB,
I heard a great quote at church today... loosely translated it goes something like this "God's Judgement is when He gives us what we want." This makes perfect sense to me. What have we as a society wanted.. well for the most part we 've done a pretty good job of telling God to mind His own business and stay out of ours. God has simply stepped aside and said "As you wish". Romans 1:24-32 gives us a clear picture of this. What are we going to do about it? We are not accountable for anyone else...only ourselves.
Blessings, Carla
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i see that...that is very strange.. here it is again:
My comment didn't have anything to do with being our brothers keeper.
My comment is that we are accountable for ourselves. This does not mean that we are not to rebuke or correct the brother/sister sinning..
In addition to that.. when I typed my response, it was directed towards those who are not in the faith...not fellow believers.
All that aside...we are accountable for ourselves. We cannot changed another person or their actions. We can warn or rebuke them...and they may choose to not listen.. we have done our part to warn/rebuke etc...
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Has that now changed to?'
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Dear Linda Ruth,
let's try it one last time... very strange..
My comment didn't have anything to do with being our brothers keeper.
My comment is that we are accountable for ourselves. This does not mean that we are not to rebuke or correct the brother/sister sinning..
When I typed my response, it was directed towards those who are not in the faith...not fellow believers.
All that aside...we are accountable for ourselves. We cannot changed another person or their actions. We can warn or rebuke them...and they may choose to not listen.. we have done our part to warn/rebuke etc...
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Has that now changed to?'
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Permalink Reply by Sarah Gardener on
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I still cannot see the message Carla - perhaps you should put it into a private message.
God Bless you!
Linda Ruth
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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on
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Brother LB,
I truly enjoy your posts. I will comment on your post and hope you do not find an offense on me doing so. My intentions are only to balance the topic and grow in the knowledge of our Lord.
>>"I will love them no more!!" I know it is a very common thing for Christians to think that God's love is unconditional but the Bible never says that anywhere.
It is essential to make a distinction between the saved and the unsaved here as well as a saved Israelite against someone that thought that merely being a descendent of Abraham made him son of God. God did not only choose the Israelites as His people (this does not mean everyone who is born an Israelite was saved) but built that Nation to show the world his love with a stiff neck, rebellious people.
God hates the wicked. But God's love for us, partakers of a new and better covenant will never cease.
Romans 8 New International Version
Those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the likeness of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30 And those he predestined, he also called; those he called, he also justified; those he justified, he also glorified. 31 What, then, shall we say in response to this? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare his own Son, but gave him up for us all—how will he not also, along with him, graciously give us all things? 33 Who will bring any charge against those whom God has chosen? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he that condemns? Christ Jesus, who died—more than that, who was raised to life—is at the right hand of God and is also interceding for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall trouble or hardship or persecution or famine or nakedness or danger or sword?
God's love for His people, those He called and will justify and further glorify will never cease. There will be times of correction, but never abandonment.
Now the world receives general grace and more so the people He had chosen, yet they were proud and took for granted the Lord's goodness towards them.
1. Rejoice not, O Israel, for joy, as other people: for thou hast gone a whoring from thy God, thou hast loved a reward upon every cornfloor.
God was angry with his people as a nation, but not necessarily people who were saved who were the faithful remnant.
13. Ephraim, as I saw Tyrus, [58] is planted in a pleasant place: but Ephraim shall bring forth his children to the murderer.
Hosea in verse 12 here confirms his previous statements that the Israelites in vain trusted in their present condition, for the Lord could reverse their prosperity whenever it pleased him. Men, we know, harden themselves in their vices, when they enjoy their wishes and when they are sunk in pleasures; for prosperity is not without reason often compared to wine, because it inebriates men and makes then demented.
God's love will never leave nor forsake those He called. For the rest of humanity it is not so. He may pass judgment over them by leaving them to their own lustful ways as Sis Carla mentioned below.
So if you are saying that God's love is conditional for the elect, I do not agree, I would agree that some of the benefits of being in Christ are lost when we are in rebellion, but even His correction is a blessing. If you are saying that God's love (general grace) comes to an end when He gives people us to their own lustful desires, we are in agreement.
God will never leave nor forsake us.
Jude 1:21 "Keep yourselves in the love of God, looking for the mercy of our Lord Jesus Christ unto eternal life."
Verses like this one continue to remind us that our salvation is not a passive one; we are to be active in the process of Sanctification. I believe this is saying that we are to be obedient and faithful by living out our salvation (Phil. 2:12), while God works out His will (Phil. 2:13). God wants us in a place where we can be shower with fellowship with Him, instead of being in a place of correction.
check out the promise that follows verse 21Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, And to present you faultless Before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy,Jude 1:24
>>but I also strongly believe we all have the responsibility to speak God's truth to one another when it looks like someone's opinion does not agree with what the Bible says very plainly and clearly.
Amen and amen. You are right on bro. Right on. Praise God for your desire to bless God's people with the truth.
Blessings beloved LB.
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Hey you sis Amanda,
The amen and amen was only for the statement our sister LB made about our responsibility to speak the truth. I am not sure if LB is saying that God's love for His people, not just His people by title as the Israelites were and are, but His people, the saved and regenerated ones is conditional or his love for the world is conditional.
The Love of God for his people is unconditional, the I love you according to your performance has been taken out of the equation, for God knows we will all fall short of His glory daily. Now that does not give us a license to since of course. We are to hate sin and love and seek righteousness. :)
But his love for the world is conditional. There comes a time that He withdraws His Holy Spirit from people’s lives and allows them to be as wicked as He allows them to be, for as long as He allows, according to His good pleasure and His perfect and holy purposes.
Blessings Sis.
LB-
Sowwweee for calling you brother sister. My bad. Love to both to you sis.
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Beloved LB,
>>"unconditional love" has been a term used by many Christian preachers and teachers for many years to describe God's love.
For sure that statement has been misused, but that does not mean that is not true of us, the born again, bought by the precious blood of Christ.
>>I also know that the word "if" is conditional, and the word "if" is used many many times in the New Testament,
Amen beloved, but bear with me as I dare to venture in loving you with the truth. :) Though you may disagree, which is perfectly ok on secondary issues? We can still pull together as the bride of Christ and have differences of beliefs in this one topic, but I take the time to answer you because the truth and the truth alone can set us free and because LB, who ever and where ever you are, you are my sister and that means a lot to me. You are my family, my family girl. when the verses that are conditional (if) are viewed in context one can clearly determine that God is not saying He will ever stop loving his elect or that He will ever take their salvation away.
I may be wrong but it appears to me that you believe in the erroneous teaching that salvation can be lost. Salvation cannot be lost but I have taken my time to respond here because it seems the discussion is headed down that road and there are many excellent discussions dealing with that topic. Check this one out:
http://www.allaboutgod.net/forum/topics/losing-salvation we looked at many of the "ifs" in scripture and pretty much showed how when they are placed in context they are not teaching that a born again child of God can lose what they did not start or merited.
Ok let us look at the ones you brought up.
>>IF my words abide in you..." "IF ye love me..." "IF a man love me..." "IF any man draw back..."
John 15:7 New International Version (©1984)
If you remain in me and my words remain in you, ask whatever you wish, and it will be given you.
This verse is not teaching that one can lose the love of God or our salvation. It is simply stating that we are misinformed if you believe that you can be outside God's will and get your heart’s desires, which is a promise of God if we abide and delight in His word, in Him.
John 14:15 New International Version (©1984)
"If you love me, you will obey what I command.
This is not saying God will stop loving you either. It it's simply stating a fact that helps us to examine our walk with the Lord. To find out if we are truly in the faith. Some folks think they are born again and their has been no interior change which spills out into our action. If we love Him we will obey Him and when we fall short, He is faithful and just to forgive us and correct us.
Hebrews 10:38 New International Version (©1984)
But my righteous one will live by faith. And if he shrinks back, I will not be pleased with him."
Galatians 3 You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. 2 I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard?
Paul is teaching or whoever wrote Hebrews (I personally think it was Paul) that we should not go back to our old ways of salvation. We should not think that keeping the Law or doing good works will saved us, when we were justified by faith and faith alone, of course that faith produces good works in us, but the good works are not meritorious unto salvation.
Again when we look at the whole chapter and we keep in mind the whole counsel of God everywhere else there is no way we can conclude that either love or salvation is conditional for the elect, for the born again.
In the discussion above we dealt with almost every single scripture, including the ones in Hebrews, that is use to teach that we can lose our salvation or the Love of our King. Almost every single argument was looked at and successfully debunked.
>>God never said he would add names to the Book of Life
Revelation 20:15
15 If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
So obviously names were added to whatever the books represent in the Spiritual world.
Revelation 20
12 And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne, and books were opened; and another book was opened, which is the book of life; and the dead were judged from the things which were written in the books, according to their deeds.
There are multiple books mentioned in scripture and also it is good to keep in mind that the word uses anthropomorphism, which refers to the perception of a divine being or beings in human form or attributing heavenly things worldly names. God is a Spirit and He dwells in the Spirit realm, so are there actual books as the ones we know?
We do understand what is being taught and that is that there are records of those alive and of those born again and of everyone’s works while alive.
I believe that when scripture is teaching that we can be erased from the book of the living or of live is not referring to eternal life, but to being taken out of life before our time as we see in multiple examples in scripture.
Psalm 69:28: “Let them be blotted out of the book of the living.” This “book of the living” should not be confused with the Lamb’s Book of Life. David is referring to earthly, physical life, not eternal life in heaven.
>>I still wish we could get rid of that term "unconditional love" because our own free will is so much a part of keeping ourselves in the love of God:
Girl you don't even want to get me going on the issue of free will, which is HIGHLY OVER RATED. But the fact that we can be partakers of an unconditional heavenly love is one of the most beautiful truths we can come to embrace and appropriate to our persons after examining ourselves. I know my God loves me unconditional but that does not mean my salvation is passive or that the benefits of being in Christ are not conditional or that I can live not abiding in Christ and not be corrected by my Lord and King who is able to keep me.
I love it - what an AWESOME GOD WE SERVE. HALLELUJAH!!
>>the New Testament says that we are the ones responsible--not the Father, or the Son, or the Holy Ghost!! We are the ones who have to draw nigh unto God--we are the ones who have to cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit--we are the ones who have to take up our cross daily and follow Jesus--we are the ones who have to purify ourselves as we go on with the Lord!! If all that is our responsibility, then what happens if we just decide to neglect it??
Simple beloved - we can expect to be corrected and to live a sorry Christian life.
>>Does God love fools and rebels and apostates and blasphemers of the Holy Ghost "
hahahaha you are pretty cool LB I would have a good time fellowship in with you and yours. Your hubby and your family. I can see us going at it in love over some bbq girl hahahaha
1 Corinthians 1:27 New International Version (©1984)
But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.
MY LORD IS ABLE TO KEEP ME AND HE IS PLEASE TO DO SO. MY KING AND LORD IS NOT A MAN, NOR THE SON OF MAN. Now He cleans us up and commands us to obey Him, but we fall short and He is faithful.
>>1 John 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purified himself, even as he is pure.
Amen and amen sista. :)
Love to you LB.
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Surely it is a condition that we remain/abide in HIM - so therefore we remain in the perfect law of His love. To remain/abide in Him we need to remain in the truth of His word and not deviate from it.
From that aspect it does appear to be conditional as sister LB has stated but then we have a Shepherd who is willing to go after that 1 sheep - that is the extent of His love. We have a Shepherd that will discipline - that is the extent of His love.
So therefore I truly believe that He is perfectly able to keep but we must abide in HIM and His word!
Blessings
Linda Ruth
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Joh 15:5 I am the Vine; you are the branches. The one abiding in Me, and I in him, this one bears much fruit, because apart from Me you are not able to execute, nothing.
Joh 15:6 Unless one remains in Me, he is cast out as the branch and is dried up; and they gather and throw them into a fire, and they are burned.
Joh 15:7 If you remain in Me, and My Words remain in you, whatever you desire you will ask, and it shall happen to you.
Joh 15:8 In this My Father is glorified, that you should bear much fruit; and you will be disciples to Me.
Joh 15:9 As the Father loved Me, I also loved you; continue in My love.
Joh 15:10 If you keep My commandments you will continue in My love, as I have kept My Father's commandments and continue in His love.
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16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not obelieved in the name of the only Son of God. 19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Jn 3:21
John 3:16 is about as unconditional as it gets. God can love us and still send us to hell. Our actions are what He hates, not us.
Does He hate the sinner? No! He hates what the sinners do. If He hated sinners, He would hate all of us, because we are all sinners. Therefore, I say His love is unconditional. Did he really hate Esau? No, He hated that Esau sold his precious birthright for a bowl of soup.
Do you hate your children when they disobey? Not me. But I sure don't like their actions sometimes.
Blessings,
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Greetings all,
If God only loves the righteous or elect, then is God asking us to do something He does not do? Are we to love our neighbor if God does not love them? That would make no sense. The Bible says the following.
MT 22:37 Jesus replied: " `Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.' 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: `Love your neighbor as yourself.' 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Luke 10 and the parable of the “Good Samaritan” gives a good picture of who our neighbors are.
If people want to debate identifying a neighbor, then what about this verse?
MT 5:43 "You have heard that it was said, `Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.' 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Is God asking us to love our enemies, when He does not have love for them? That makes no sense.
Is God capable of not loving His creation, including man? The Bible says that God is love. This is a state of being. It is Who He is, not what He does. What He does flows from His attributes of which love is one attribute of God. God does not ever cease to love because God never ceases to be love. To be clear God is not only love, but is also holy and just to name a few more of His known attributes.
Further we see that John 3:16 puts no qualifiers or limitations on God’s love for the kosmos (World, His creation), which includes mankind.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Dear Linda Ruth,
My comment didn't have anything to do with being our brothers keeper.
My comment is that we are accountable for ourselves. This does not mean that we are not to rebuke or correct the brother/sister sinning..
In addition to that.. when I typed my response, it was directed towards those who are not in the faith...not fellow believers.
All that aside...we are accountable for ourselves. We cannot change another person or their actions. We can warn or rebuke them...and they may choose to not listen.. we have done our part to warn/rebuke etc...
I'm not sure what you mean by 'Has that now changed to?'