What is Free Will?

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 1, 2011 at 3:15pm

Great answer sis Robbin but indulge me and if you feel led to deal with the questions or question I asked I would appreciated.

 

I am asking what is free will not what we do with our ability to choose.

 

If you Google "free will" you will get 72 pages of information, yet the majority of us throw the word around without even considering what we are really saying, (not saying you beloved) but the word merits consideration.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 1, 2011 at 3:53pm

What is?

 

Free will is the ability to make a choice without exterior or interior motives, an effect without a cause.

 

Your strongest inclination directed your ability to chose - that is exactly what you just did, that is not free will in its strictest form, though we use the two words to describe our ability to choose according to our strongest inclinations.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 2, 2011 at 12:30am

Exactly the point - so is free will - free?  God has free will - He alone has bona fide free will - we have a delegated freedom to choose according to the strongest inclination at the time of the choice being made. Our choices are influenced by many factors such as prejudice; favoritism etc so free will is caused by the influence of many different things, so it is not free at all.

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Permalink Reply by Ginnybee on April 11, 2011 at 4:53pm

 hi Dave... you said "Our choices are influenced by many factors such as prejudice; favoritism, etc, so free will is cause by the influence of many different things and is not free at all." Just because our choices are influenced by isolated issues doesn't necessarily mean we will choose to act in a manner that reflects our strongest influences. I personally can remember many times when I knew perfectly well that what I was about to engage was not in my best interest, nor was it what I wanted to do; however, I found myself engaging that very thing, anyway.

 

We DO have an ability to choose against our strongest influence even though in some instances I might describe it as falling short to stand firm rather than as making a deliberate decision. Still, in not choosing there is a choice being made. Furthermore, if as you say, we are controlled by our influences, then you are suggesting that we make our own choices based on personal experiences, key word being personal (individualized), rather than on simple knowledge of fact and fiction, which defeats your case for predestination. You are saying that our choices remain dependent upon whimsical circumstances. In that case, why our intelligence? Why do we possess an ability to recognize truth?

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on April 11, 2011 at 6:02pm

 

Hey Sister Glenda,

 

It is always good to hear from you. When you chose over options that would have been better for you, you chose according to your strongest inclination at that point, to go for the immediate ratification etc. you did no chose the wises option but you chose according to your strongest desires/inclinations for that particular time.

 

Your strongest inclination is the thing you chose, even if it’s not what you would generally choose.

 

>>if as you say, we are controlled by our influences, then you are suggesting that we make our own choices based on personal experiences, key word being personal (individualized), rather than on simple knowledge of fact and fiction, which defeats your case for predestination.

 

Sister - I said, "our choices are influenced by many factors such as prejudice; favoritism etc so free will is caused by the influence of many different things, so it is not free at all."

 

I did not say we are control by them, but influence, which makes a big difference. Sometimes folks are control by them, but not always.

 

Beloved we live in a world where God is gonna accomplish his plan and his creation has the ability to make choices, which are influence by many factors, but God is the owner of the universe and can do whatever He wants with it. That is a beautiful truth because we serve a beautiful, holy and perfect God, so we got it made. :) It is a beautiful world and life when we are in his will, even if things are falling apart all around us, if we have God, we have it all. We do not have to be against or fear that He is in control, but praise him for that beautiful thruth. I don't want to be in control - I want Him to lead and guide me, all I want to do is response and follow him. :)

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 1, 2011 at 3:26pm

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 2, 2011 at 1:24am

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 3, 2011 at 9:08am

 

Amanda -

 

As always I will respond to your wonderful questions (and I mean it beloved - wonderful inquiries), while addressing the community as well. What that means is that some of the stuff I include in my responses is not directed at you personally, I trust you understand my wacky ways :)

 

>>In one sense I can climb on a bridge and jump off. In another sense, I can’t. Something in me won’t let me. Is that free will?

 

This is what I see in scripture and what I have experience in my own life in Christ (I do NOT nor do I recommend we make dogmas/doctrine from experience), which fits perfectly with the testimony of millions and aligns to scripture:

 

You can climb a bridge and jump off, if one of two of things is true -

 

God who has allowed us the liberty to climb a tree and jump off (who knows the end from the beginning) has from before the foundations of the earth already decided to allow you to do such a thing and does not stop you. God as creator has every right to do with the clay as He wants and since God is perfectly holy and good that never includes Him in a sinful transaction.

 

 Psalm 9

  ¹⁹Arise, O LORD; let not man prevail: let the heathen be judged in thy sight.

 ²⁰Put them in fear, O LORD: that the nations may know themselves to be but men. Selah.

or

 

God who is in complete control of His creation has from before the foundations of the world already decided to stop you from jumping. He already knows what He will allow and what you have decided to do. He has EVERY right as creator to allow you or stop you.

 

Numerous examples in the word of God of him stepping into the picture, to have his will done. This is what we pray for - this is our heart's cry - not our will but his, not because our will can overcome His, not at all, but rather because we are finite and don't see the whole, but He does and oh how He loves us, so we trust, surrender and pray for His will.  

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 3, 2011 at 9:19am

Amanda-

 

>>A chess program can checkmate its opponent and can also move into a position leading to the opponent giving checkmate. Why is that not free will?

 

As I stated before beloved - we can attached the title/saying of "free will" to such actions by a program, but is not free will in its strictest forms.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 3, 2011 at 1:49pm

Ama -

 

God knows all things, but we don't beloved so our lives are anything but boring and we can totally rejoice in the fact that we know who holds it all together.

 

We make real choices - God has decided when to step in and when to allow them to take their course according to his good pleasure.

 

We do not have free will in its purest form, you are correct, but we have been created intelligent (well most of us as you know hahaaha hahaha Just kidding you all hahaha), with the ability to reason and the liberty to chose, we are far from robots, yet we belong to a king that has an agenda and NONE of us should find that offensive, but rather comforting. To know He is in control when everything is falling apart in our partial view and understanding of the whole - my goodness family - that is BEAUTIFUL.

 

THAT IS CHRISTIANITY - WE BELONG TO A KINGDOM IN WHICH THE KING IS ALL POWERFUL, ALL KNOWING, JUST, PERFECT AND HOLY. What is not to love about it? We are the blessed of the earth and we are free to love Him.

 

When we use our LIMITED FREE WILL TO WORSHIP HIM - THEN AND ONLY THEN - IS OUR WILL TRULY FREE.

 

Blessings :)

 

 

Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 19, 2011 at 4:27pm

>>What type of free will does a computer game have?

 

None - A computer has no free will. It is pre-program with parameters to follow. It is strictly following protocol and program - free will does not exist in, in  adamant objects. The object has limited possibilities to choose from and according to how brilliant the programmer is; maybe it can learn and adopt new estragedies according to diverse situations that come up.

 

>>does it mean if God limits our free will are we no better to Him than a computer game?

 

Our "free will" - "freedom to choose" - "Liberties granted to us" are FOREVER SUBJECT TO GOD'S sovereignty, no way around it. Does this make us robots? NoT EVEN CLOSE - IT MAKES US EXTREMLY BLESSED. I praise Him, I am completely in love with Him because my life is in his hands and my eternity belongs to him. He is alpha and omega of who and what I am. I am not even close to a robot, but an extremely blessed human being created a little lower than the angels. Angels can't sin, but have liberties and they are not robots.

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Permalink Reply by David Velasquez on March 2, 2011 at 8:08pm

By A.W. Pink

1. The Nature Of The Human Will.

What is the Will? We answer, the will is the faculty of choice, the immediate cause of all action. Choice necessarily implies the refusal of one thing and the acceptance, of another. The positive and the negative must both be present to the mind before there can be any choice. In every, act of the will there is a preference — the desiring of one thing rather than another. Where there is no preference, but complete indifference, there is no volition. To will is to choose, and to choose is to decide between two or more alternatives. But there is something which influences the choice; something which determines the decision. Hence he will cannot be sovereign because it is the servant of that something. The will cannot be both sovereign and servant. It cannot be both cause and effect. The will is not causative, because, as we have said, something causes it to choose, therefore that something must be the causative agent. Choice itself is affected by certain considerations, is determined by various influences brought to bear upon the individual himself, hence, volition is the effect of these considerations and influences, and if the effect, it must be their servant; and if the will is their servant then it is not sovereign, and if the will is not sovereign, we certainly cannot predicate absolute “freedom” of it. Acts of the will cannot come to pass of themselves — to say they can, is to postulate an uncaused effect. “Ex nihilo nihil fit” — nothing cannot produce something.

In all ages, however, there have been those who contended for the absolute freedom or sovereignty of the human will. Men will argue that the will possesses a self-determining power. They say, for example, I can turn my eyes up or down, the mind is quite indifferent which I do, the will must decide. But this is a contradiction in terms. This case supposes that I choose one thing in preference to another, while I am in a state of complete indifference. Manifestly, both cannot be true. But it may be replied, the mind was quite indifferent until it came to have a preference. Exactly; and at that time the will was quiescent, too! But the moment indifference vanished, choice was made, and the fact that indifference gave place to preference, overthrows the argument that the will is capable of choosing between two equal things. As we have said, choice implies the acceptance of one alternative and the rejection of the other or others.

That which determines the will is that which causes it to choose. If the will is determined, then there must be a determiner. What is it that determines the will? We reply, The strongest motive power which is brought to bear upon it. What this motive power is, varies in different cases. With one it may be the logic of reason, with another the ice of conscience, with another the impulse of the emotions, with another the whisper of the tempter, with another the power of the Holy Spirit; whichever of these presents the strongest motive power and exerts the greatest influence upon the individual himself, is that which impels the will to act. In other words, the action of the will is determined by that condition of mind (which in turn is influenced by the world, the flesh, and the Devil, as well as by God), which has the greatest degree of tendency to excite volition. To illustrate what we have just said let us analyze a simple example —

On a certain Lord’s day afternoon a friend of ours was suffering from a severe headache. He was anxious to visit the sick, but feared that if he did so his own condition would grow worse, and as the consequence, be unable to attend the preaching of the Gospel that evening. Two alternatives confronted him: to visit the sick that afternoon and risk being sick himself, or, to take a rest that afternoon (and visit the sick the next day), and probably arise refreshed and fit for the evening service. Now what was it that decided our friend in choosing between these two alternatives? The will? Not at all. True, that in the end, the will made a choice, but the will itself was moved to make the choice. In the above case certain considerations presented strong motives for selecting either alternative; these motives were balanced the one against the other by the individual himself, i.e., his heart and mind, and the one alternative being supported by stronger motives than the other, decision was formed accordingly, and then the will acted. On the one side, our friend felt impelled by a sense of duty to visit the sick; he was led with compassion to do so, and thus a strong motive was presented to his mind. On the other hand, his judgment reminded him that he was feeling far from well himself, that he badly needed a rest, that if he visited the sick his own condition would probably be made worse, and in such case he would be prevented from attending the preaching of the Gospel that night; furthermore, he knew that on the morrow, the Lord willing, he could visit the sick, and this being so, he concluded he ought to rest that afternoon. Here then were two sets of alternatives presented to our Christian brother: on the one side was a sense of duty plus his own sympathy, on the other side was a sense of his own need plus a real concern for God’s glory, for he felt that he ought to attend the preaching of the Gospel that night. The latter prevailed. Spiritual considerations outweighed his sense of duty. Having formed his decision the will acted accordingly, and he retired to rest. An analysis of the above case shows that the mind or reasoning faculty was directed by spiritual considerations, and the mind regulated and controlled the will. Hence we say that, if the will is controlled, it is neither sovereign nor free, but is the servant of the mind.

It is only as we see the real nature of freedom and mark that the will is subject to the motives brought to bear upon it, that we are able to discern there is no conflict between two statements of Holy Writ which concern our blessed Lord. In Matt. 4:1 we read, “Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the Devil”; but in Mark 1:12,13 we are told, “And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness. And he was there in the wilderness forty days, tempted of Satan”. It is utterly impossible to harmonize these two statements by the Arminian conception of the will. But really there is no difficulty. That Christ was “driven”, implies it was by a forcible motive or powerful impulse, such as was not to be resisted or refused; that he was “led” denotes his freedom in going. Putting the two together we learn, that he was driven, with a voluntary condescension thereto. So, there is the liberty of man’s will and the victorious efficacy of God’s grace united together: a sinner may be “drawn” and yet “come” to Christ — the “drawing” presenting to him the irresistible motive, the “coming” signifying the response of his will — as Christ was “driven” and “led” by the Spirit into the wilderness.

Human philosophy insists that it is the will which governs the man, but the Word of God teaches that it is the heart which is the dominating centre of our being. Many scriptures might be quoted in substantiation of this. “Keep thy heart with all diligence; for out of it are the issues of life” Prov. 4:23. “For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders”, etc. Mark 7:21. Here our Lord traces these sinful acts back to their source, and declares that their fountain is the “heart”, and not the will! Again; “This people draweth nigh unto me with their lips, but their heart is far from me” Matt. 15:8. If further proof were required we might call attention to the fact that the word “heart” is found in the Bible more than three times oftener than is the word “will”, even though nearly half of the references to the latter refer to God’s will!

When we affirm that it is the heart and not the will which governs the man, we are not merely striving about words, but insisting on a distinction that is of vital importance. Here is an individual before whom two alternatives are placed; which will he choose? We answer, the one which is most agreeable to himself, i.e., his “heart” — the innermost core of his being. Before the sinner is set a life of virtue and piety, and a life of sinful indulgence; which will he follow? The latter. Why? Because this is his choice. But does that prove the will is sovereign? Not at all. Go back from effect to cause. Why does the sinner choose a life of sinful indulgence? Because he prefers it — and he does prefer it, all arguments to the contrary not withstanding, though of course he does not enjoy the effects of such a course. And why does he prefer it? Because his heart is sinful. The same alternatives, in like manner, confront the Christian, and he chooses and strives after a life of piety and virtue. Why? Because God has given him a new heart or nature. Hence we say it is not the will which makes the sinner impervious to all appeals to “forsake his way”, but his corrupt and evil heart. He will not come to Christ, because he does not want to, and he does not want to because his heart hates him and loves sin: see Jer 17:9!

In defining the will we have said above, that “the will is the faculty of choice, the immediate cause of all action.” We say the immediate cause, for the will is not the primary cause of any action, any more than the hand is. Just as the hand is controlled by the muscles and nerves of the arm, and the arm by the brain; so the will is the servant of the mind, and the mind, in turn, is affected by various influences and motives which are brought to bear upon it. But, it may be asked, Does not Scripture make its appeal to man’s will? Is it not written, “And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely” Rev. 22:17? And did not our Lord say, “ye will not come to me that ye might have life” John 5:40? We answer; the appeal of Scripture is not always made to man’s “will”; other of his faculties are also addressed. For example: “He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.” “Hear and your soul shall live.” “Look unto me and be ye saved.” “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shall be saved.” “Come now and let us reason together”, “with the heart man believeth unto righteousness”, etc., etc.

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