All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
WHAT IS FAITH?
I posted this question on one of Amanda's Topics and decided to post it for all. The question is out there. What is faith? Do we know and understand.....really understand what the word means? Do we have it? Do we use it?
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Rita Cullimore on
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David,
I did a search on the usage of *a* vs *the* in Romans 12:3 in my logos on my computer.
Of 17 english language versions, 6 use *a* 11 use *the*.
In Matthew 17:20, Christ speaks of a grain of mustard seed faith. He also speaks of people with little faith. He doesn't say they have none. It is my belief that we all have faith, even unbelievers, but it is faith in the wrong thing. If we have faith of the wrong kind, in other than God, it will fail most times. As a person believes in God, and exercises his/her faith, it grows.
There is also varying kinds of faith, in various things and people.
Blessings to you and yours.....
Rita
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Permalink Reply by Leonard T on
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Rita,
One does need to differentiate between biblical faith and faith (trust/belief) in self or faith (trust/belief) in someone else. If faith or trust is placed in anyone or anything other than God we are placing our trust in something that is flawed. Man will let me down. I trust my car to get me home, but it will eventually fail. God can be trusted and our faith in Him is different than a trust in even self, for I will fail, but God never fails. In fact, the door way to trusting God is opened by God as all true faith is enabled by Him in some fashion or another. The Israelites knew God because He had revealed Hiself to them. This is true of you and me today. I did not find God, He found me and I simply responded to the pverwhelming work of God drawing me to Him. I will stop there, but more can be said and probably will be before this discussion is done :-)
Lord Bless,
LT
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LT,
You comment is true, but.....first one needs to know what faith is. That was my original question.
Hebrew 11:1 infers faith in God, but doesn't mention God. I have stated that unbelievers put their faith in the wrong thing or person.
The actual reason for me posting this topic, is to get people to think about faith, not generate an argument about it. I am attempting to get the people who are not exercising faith to start exercising it. At the same time, I am promoting trying to exercise mine to a greater extent. Once people understand what faith is, I have faith that they will carry it with them, exercising their own faith to a greater extent.
May God speak through this morning.....
Blessings...
Rita
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Rita,
I am not arguing :-) The point I am making is that we have to differentiate between biblical faith and a simple trust that the world is capable of having. So, yes, one has to define faith, but in that definition you will find that biblical faith and worldly faith/trust are not the same thing and cannot be evaluated by the same standard.
Lord Bless,
LT
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Rita,
2 Thessalonians 3:2 mentions that not all have faith. I guess I look at faith as belief and trust
www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/faith .
Fallen angels believe and tremble but do not trust God (James 2:19).
I agree with David that there does seem to be different kinds of faith. There is the spiritual gift of faith (1 Cor 12:9), that perhaps is in addition to the faith that comes by hearing (Romans 10:17). It is obvious that many people hear and believe but do not get saved. Do they not have the right kind of faith? Saving faith?
I also agree with what David says about babies being born with trust. I think this is why Jesus said of children that "the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these" (Matthew 19:14).
We can lose that trust. In people and in God. We can stop believing.
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Amanda,
When a person doesn't believe in God, one doesn't have the faith that is biblical. I doesn't mean they can't have it. I believe it means they don't exercise it.
My version of James 2:19
19 tYou believe that God is one; you do well. Even uthe demons believe—and shudder!
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Jas 2:19I do understand what you are saying, though. Faith is trust. I do not believe that people lose their belief in God.
Blessings.....
Rita
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Rita,
The born again will not lose their salvation but many Scriptures tell us that people who believe can stop believing. They probably are not saved to begin with but nonetheless they do believe. Matthew 24:9-13 says many will turn away from the faith. 1 Timothy 1:18-20 speaks of people who have shipwrecked their faith. Then there is 1 Timothy 4:1. We also have the Parable of the Sower found in three gospels which clearly says someone can believe for a little while and then stop ... Not endure.
I am misunderstanding something or getting a mixed message here from you, or something. You make the case that everyone is born with faith. Then you say people do not lose their belief in God. There are people who are atheists. There are people who are agnostic. There are true believers. There are people who, when you ask them if they believe in God they answer yes but if you ask them if they are saved, they answer no. At least I have known several people personally who have given these answers. Also, some will say they are not sure if they are saved or not but do believe in the Creator and that Jesus is real.
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The word *faith* is a huge word. It can be taken in many forms.
Faith in 1 Tim 4:1 to me is referring to people who are a part of Paul's church movement and then they left. I believe that is similar to
4 For it is impossible, in the case of those qwho have once been enlightened, who have tasted rthe heavenly gift, and shave shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 and thave tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 and uthen have fallen away, to restore them again to repentance, since vthey are crucifying once again the Son of God to their own harm and holding him up to contempt. 7
The Holy Bible : English Standard Version. Wheaton : Standard Bible Society, 2001, S. Heb 6:7These are those who haven't believed in the first place. I don't believe they were ever saved.
I believe negative people, those that use the *cup half empty* approach are shipwrecking their faith. I don't believe that only Christians are given this thing called *faith*.
There are many Muslim terrorists that die for the rewards they believe are waiting for them in paradise. That is faith.
I hope I have been able to remove some confusion about what I have been talking about.
What we need to display is Hebrews 11:1 faith.
Blessings.....
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Char,
I believe we all go through what you have stated that you have gone through and we all are working our way out of it...that place where we take the *glass half empty* approach. As I said yesterday, I have watched you turn away from this disbelief that you have had. I see you continuing to turn. That is a great thing. Just you being able to use the past tense, telling of something you used to do. Apparently you have either slowed down that approach or have already accomplished it. That is a wonderful thing. It doesn't matter if you aren't there yet...God sees you using your faith to be able to turn to Him. You are working at it. That is the most important thing, that you are able to continue in the path you are on. You will hear God say "well done, thou good and faithful servant".
Many blessings....
Rita
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Rita,
I don't think the people in 1 Timothy 1:18-20 had shipwrecked their faith by simply being glass half-empty negative people. In fact, Paul was telling Timothy to fight the good fight, holding onto faith and a good conscience. He says some have rejected these, meaning have rejected holding onto faith and a good conscience, and by rejecting had shipwrecked their faith.
Also, people do not just decide to believe in God.
As David pointed out, there is a difference between the belief that the world has, which some people call faith, and the faith that is biblical faith. Many people have been enlightened and have been able to see light and to understand truth. Many choose to remain in darkness though. They may believe for a little while but then stop. Perhaps that means not everyone is given saving faith. Or maybe it just means not everyone is receptive of the free gift of saving faith. For it is by grace you have been saved through faith -- and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God -- not by works, so that no one can boast. Eph 2:8-9. No one just works up enough faith within themselves to get saved. That kind of faith is a gift.
I think another great question to ponder is How can we keep from falling into the trap of having faith in faith?
BTW, my take on the people whom Paul said were shipwrecking their faith is that they were amoral, perhaps even being machiavellian, having no conscience.
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Disbelief begins with a negative attitude.
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Disbelief begins at birth because of the fall in the garden and has nothing to do with attitude. People without Christ are blind, spiritually dead and without faith in Him. They must be brought to life, and this is not something they do, but Christ does.
There is a doctrine that must be understood. It is the doctrine of "The Lostness of Man."
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