All About GOD - Growing Relationships with Jesus and Others
What are the real deeper earmarks of a true Christian?
I know we've spoken on the fruits of the Spirit and various things that define a Christian, but how about a bit deeper...what are the real defining earmarks? Since we have Christians who are babies, those who are young men, those who are old men, each in a different area of growth, how would we define a true Christian? A baby Christian may not display enough fruit that one could even see unless they lived with that person. A mature Christian may still display some bad behaviors while everything else has changed as they are still failing in a particular area. So if we're judging by fruits alone and do not know where a person is in their walk, how do we judge?
The main earmark is love. If we have not love then Christ is not in us. But how does one define love? If a man loves his wife and yet gets angry over something she does to hurt him, yet he remains and tries to work it out...because he got angry, did that mean he didn't love her? He may not have loved what she did for good reason. Our kids do things we don't like and we punish them, but we don't stop loving them. So by this we can see that even Christians can get angry at one another. So by that...how do we determine if they love?
So many question their own salvation and/or the salvation of others because they don't see what they define as fruit or love. I went through the questions because I wasn't seeing growth, even though others were assuring me they saw growth. I couldn't understand what it was they were seeing then. And it may have been because I did get hurt when people hurt me, I had angry thoughts, sometimes I even spoke back out of hurt, but I didn't stop caring about them. I was also led to believe fruits were to have perfect patience, always have a smile on your face regardless of what was happening in your life, go out of your way for everyone while denying your own basic needs if need be, etc. And there are some who do those things after many many years of being trained by the Holy Spirit. But for those yet untrained...how would you assure them that they're a Christian? How would we honestly judge another?
All through scripture, love is the main theme, but when we question if we love or if another is showing love, how can we know? There is also if you remain in His Word, and other scriptures to the same idea that show we have to abide in the Word to grow. Therefore, is it possible to have love planted in our hearts but need to learn how to express it better since we've been taught so wrong for so many years?
I had an evangelist pray over me not too long ago that God was healing me from the inside out and I've not felt really healed in years. But lately, I can feel more and more is being healed than ever before. Yet for several years I was in that torment of not really knowing, questioning, feeling condemned over scriptures describing behaviors I hadn't attained despite all efforts to do so and all desire to want to. I'm actually coming to a place where I can even see some good of the situations of people who've hurt me and where I have a concern to pray for them more so than pray about the hurts they've caused. But in those years before, it caused a lot of inner turmoil because we all have the scriptures to tell us what a Christian should look like, but not always the wisdom to apply it appropriately.
So I'm just wanting to get your thoughts on how you would determine someone's Christianity, or even your own, regardless of what age one is to Christianity and what level their walk is.
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by ScribeD on
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My son and I were just recently having a discussion on the behavioral markers of a Christian. You have listed a few here. What I find is that we often think we want to look for deeper things, but really we need to look at the basics. So often we are tempted to find some new teaching, some greater insight; and the problem is that this can be a path to deception as it says in 2 Timothy 4:3.
Healthy Growth
What Jesus calls us to is a deeper relationship that grows from the basics. Notice what Jesus says in John 15:2 "...He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes so that it will be even more fruitful." So, in other words, he takes us back to the basics. He removes extraneous things. We can get wild growth that becomes unhealthy and drains us from producing good fruit. The Master takes his pruning shear and cuts it back at times. So that we can grow and bear more fruit.
In this regard, I like the Forrest Gump philosophy "stupid is as stupid does", only with a twist "Christian is as Christian does." So, back to your list:
1. Fellowship with God. Primarily, the Christian life is about a vibrant relationship with God. Jesus said in John 4:23 "...a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in the Spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks." First and foremost, the Christian life is a walk of worship and adoration for our great God and Savior. We are called to love him with our whole heart, whole mind and whole strength.
2. Fellowship with believers. Christians are called to a life of fellowship with other people who are messed up and who need a godly friend. We grow best when we are helping others grow. James 5:16 speaks of intimate trusting inter-relationship with other believers "...confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous person is powerful and effective." Notice it doesn't say "...so that THEY may be healed..." Also, consider Proverbs 27:17 "...As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another."
3. Love your brother/sister (in the faith). Romans 12:10 "...Be devoted to one another in love. Honor one another above yourselves." And 1 John 2:10 "...Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble."
4. Help the truly poor and needy. Luke 11:41 "...But now as for what is inside you—be generous to the poor, and everything will be clean for you." and Psalm 15:5 "...who lends money to the poor without interest; who does not accept a bribe against the innocent. Whoever does these things will never be shaken."
5. Stand firm in the faith. 1 Corinthians 15:58 "...Therefore, my beloved brethren, be ye stedfast, unmoveable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, forasmuch as ye know that your labour is not in vain in the Lord." And Philippians 4:10 "...my brothers and sisters, you whom I love and long for, my joy and crown, stand firm in the Lord in this way, dear friends!" And Jude 1:3 "...contend for the faith that was once for all entrusted to God’s holy people." When we encounter temptations and attacks on the faith, we must stand firm against evil.
Christian by definition
These are the foundations for walking humbly with our God. Doing these things define us. They also allow us to grow and bear fruit. Often the inner wounds that we struggle with are aching because we have stopped growing in the things of the Lord - these basics of the Christian life.
A major part of learning to love God, requires us to learn His Word. You can't love someone you don't know. a major part of loving God is giving Him time to speak to you from His Word. Sit down and make a discipline of reading large portions. Pick parts you like and then pick parts you don't fully understand. Ask Him to guide you. He will.
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Permalink Reply by Seek on
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First and foremost, the Christian life is a walk of worship and adoration for our great God and Savior. We are called to love him with our whole heart, whole mind and whole strength.
What if you're unsure if you love Him enough? If through years and years of being messed up internally by many wrongs in this world, your emotions are skewed and you don't feel you truly know how to love? Some people are "numb" from life and when they come to Christ, they want to feel, they want what He offers in changing their hearts. But during the process of change, if growth doesn't come instantly they question their love because of their feelings of love inadequacy. But love can grow deeper as we study too.
James 5:16 speaks of intimate trusting inter-relationship with other believers
Yet how many times to Christians hurt others who trusted them, destroying that person's trust? I think we trust in God and not each other because we can then realize we each fail and the one you trusted today may turn on you tomorrow. In this way it can lessen the hurt if one does.
who lends money to the poor without interest
And if they themselves are poor can't this leave them thinking they're failing to obey God?
When we encounter temptations and attacks on the faith, we must stand firm against evil.
And if you at times fall to temptation but learn from it, repent of it? One could start to believe since they failed to stand firm that they weren't truly saved even though they tried to stand, want to, but we're weak and messed up. So they start believing their heart is wrong and never changed.
I experienced all of this. But I stuck it out determined to not give up in the face of all those doubts. Only through sticking it out and staying in the Word have I grown. But some start to believe they're failures and give up thinking they can't please God or God doesn't want them, because they haven't been exposed to the true Word long enough but a lot of false teaching for years. I feel sorry for them because their heart was right and they just didn't know it because of those who hammered all the Do's and Don'ts into them but never taught growth, never encouraged but judged and condemned. Truly sad. Because some want to love God with all their hearts but feel too messed up that they'll never be able to and be rejected come judgment day.
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Seek, I totally get it. Let me answer a few things I think can help, because what I hear you saying is that you're stuck and you want to move forward.
"What if you're unsure if you love Him enough?"
None of us loves Him enough. It's a feature of being trapped in this fallen fleshly state. The good news is that there is grace for us to grow in this area. The fact is we fall and fail. But, I find it's helpful not to look at your love of God or your holiness as a destination, but rather as a goal. We press on. Every great saint has had to do the same. James 4:6 tells us "...God resists the proud, but gives graces to the humble..." This follows directly after he has confronted sin and failure in the church and warned the believers to purify their hearts.
The good news is that we can start today, humbly asking God for the grace and strength to walk as lovers of God.
"Yet how many times to Christians hurt others who trusted them, destroying that person's trust?"
This, unfortunately is more the norm than the rarity. Somehow, in His wisdom, God has put us together in the body to grow. Sometimes church can seem more like an insane asylum, other times like a hospital. Yet, it is through this that God grows his Kingdom. If you will take a moment and think about every book from Romans to Jude, these are primarily written to correct sin, failure and conflict IN THE CHURCH. Yet, the church is God's primary instrument in the world to be salt, light and his living message in the world. This requires each of us to have some humility and accept that fact. Then, begin being the solution to what is broken within our own members - because scripture is clear that we are the church and the church is us. If it is broken, it is because we came in as broken people and made it so.
"And if they themselves are poor can't this leave them thinking they're failing to obey God?"
There is always someone to whom you can minister. There is always something you can offer that is the lifeline and the healing to another. Jesus said that even a cup of cold water offered in His name has a reward. A big part of experiencing the wonderful powerful abundance that God gives is that the more you give, the more He gives you to give. Offer what you have, in love and grace, to God. Make your teapot, your time, your prayers, your encouragement available to God - to give to the needy. He will pour more into you. When you recognize a need, fill it with what you have. Peter came to a lame beggar at the temple gate who wanted (and needed) money. He didn't say "i'm too broke to help, you sorry I'm heading on." No, he offered what he had: attention, faith, prayer, belief, time, compassion. And what did God do with that? Miraculously, the answer to the lame beggar's needs also answered Peter's need. Peter needed to demonstrate God's power to the nation of Israel, the beggar merely needed a change in his situation. What I have learned is that God pours his grace out to those who are humbly willing to give Him what they have. There are many cases of this demonstrated in scripture. [I know the prosperity preachers exploit this and try to dupe people into sending them money, but the principle actually works when you put it into Jesus' hands.]
"And if you at times fall to temptation but learn from it, repent of it?"
If you're going to fail, please learn from it! LOL. We all do that. But, learn by determining to grow. Try responding to that temptation differently. Make a decision in advance for how you will respond to that type of temptation again.
I challenge you to read James 4:1-11. Consider that this pastor (James) understands these issues intimately because he failed for his entire life to recognize that his older brother (Jesus) was the son of God. Consider that he tried to stop Jesus in his ministry. He was angry at Jesus for challenging the authorities. Then, bam, the resurrection shook him up and finally, he began to follow Jesus after Jesus has left! Think he felt like a failure ...just a little bit? Yep, you can be sure he did. James is telling you from experience that these things will change your life.
:)
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Permalink Reply by Amanda on
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Scribe,
I really like what you've shared, especially this part:
"None of us loves Him enough. It's a feature of being trapped in this fallen fleshly state. The good news is that there is grace for us to grow in this area. The fact is we fall and fail. But, I find it's helpful not to look at your love of God or your holiness as a destination, but rather as a goal. We press on. Every great saint has had to do the same. James 4:6 tells us "...God resists the proud, but gives graces to the humble..." This follows directly after he has confronted sin and failure in the church and warned the believers to purify their hearts."
We aren't to look at obeying God as something we have to do and have no choice, but we are to look at obeying God as God protecting and delivering us, and God gives us grace to do so, from glory to glory, progressively.
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Sorry, I don't have a lot of time to go through this right now, but just wanted to say it's not that I'm stuck. I can't say I never have any thoughts like these, but I deal with them. But this is what I did go through for awhile. And it just concerns me about the number of people who do go through it and can't seem to get answers. So I'm always trying to get input to store away in my filing cabinet to hopefully help others.
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None of us loves Him enough. It's a feature of being trapped in this fallen fleshly state. The good news is that there is grace for us to grow in this area.
Some of the reasons I questioned this was because I heard others talking like God was all they thought about. They spoke as if even if their world completely caved, they wouldn't even shed a tear because heaven was all they thought about. And I wasn't feeling that way. I wanted to be like Christ. Wanted Him to turn my ways around and change my character, make me useful to others and not self focused. And I loved Him. But it didn't seem to be in such magnitude as I was hearing. Also not being real vocal and hearing others vocalize this way...it had me completely questioning. And it was coming from those who were saved 10 or 20+ years ago and I'd been recently saved. Part was due to multiple traumas that skewed my emotions about love and God's still working on that inner healing.
There is always someone to whom you can minister. There is always something you can offer that is the lifeline and the healing to another.
Yet here too I saw how much others devoted their time to helping with clothing drives, helping with Bible School, painting and working at fixing the church classrooms, etc. And I tried to get involved and keep up. Yet while doing this, my son would often have problems around the other kids while I tried working. I also started getting sick with arthritic problems building up from stress. I would spend hours on my feet painting or bending up and down to empty and sort bags of donated clothing just to go home, take pain pills and fall into the tub and soak half the night. If I gave money to help somewhere I always felt it was too little. Again, a lot of these feelings were tied to my upbringing and what I was rigidly taught.
Make a decision in advance for how you will respond to that type of temptation again.
I did...three times. I cried so hard at the altar begging God to show me how to not let it happen again.
I know so many others who face these same questions. Some struggle with growing. What bothers me most are those who eventually give up because they're convinced they can never meet God's expectations because, like me, they've been taught all the wrong things. And once a teaching takes hold it becomes a belief. And beliefs are hard to change until one sees revelation.
In the meantime, they feel as if they have to measure up to perfect love, overcome every shortcoming overnight and be transformed "in the twinkling of an eye" (confusing salvation with the rapture), and when they fail at trying to be perfect, they're now aware of sin and it hurts them deep inside and they go to God with it. When they find themselves repeatedly failing even when trying everything not to, they question if they were even saved. They can read the Word, know how they should act, then if they fail to do all those things they think they'll never be good enough because they were brought up believing they never were good enough. And sometimes they give up before they can realize God's work in their life. They feel the trouble they are facing is God's punishment instead of a way of shaping their patience and endurance. They need mentors to step in and guide them compassionately without fault finding, every step of the way until they do not doubt their salvation and realize the work God is doing in them.
Sadly there are extremely very few of these mentors.
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Permalink Reply by thewatchman on
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"None of us loves Him enough."
I would question this thought. I am sure that there are great sighs of relief with this statement, but may we truly take a very close look at it please?
If we love God, as in Luke 10:27-- "And he answering said, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself. " According to His own Word, this is enough.
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Lol. Yes, that is the amount. We are to strive for that amount. Will we attain it in this life? We certainly are to seek it. Love grows, like faith.
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Hmm I wonder. All YOUR heart, All YOUR soul, All YOUR strength, All YOUR mind. Maybe it's that we each love Him with all the capability our heart, soul, strength and mind possesses. And that ability can grow.
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Jesus said we are salt and we are light. Therefore, we are. He didn't say we should seek to be these things or that one day we will become them. He said, "You are ..." You are salt and light because He lives in you. However, the danger is there that salt can lose its saltiness and light can grow dim. Our light isn't even our light, but we reflect the Light of the World -- Christ Jesus. When we fail, confession and cleansing keeps our light shining brightly and our salt salty. (Michael Youssef gave a sermon once on salt and light and it, too, helped me understand them better.)
I know that I've been on a journey of growing to trust God, and it also has been a journey of growing to love God and others. The amount has been an issue for me. Is it enough? Am I OK? Is God pleased? Etcetera.
I've been focusing on the wrong thing.
In my devotions this morning, this stood out for me:
"Trusting the Lord isn’t hard as long as you are scoped into the Lord you trust. When the concern shifts to trying to measure the power, strength, or endurance of your trust itself, you’re already in trouble. But when your attention is daily turned to Him, seeking to know Him better and better, eager to worship Him and be with others who want to worship Him, trusting becomes part of the response." (James MacDonald, Walk in the Word)
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If you take the WHOLE counsel of the book of Romans... And if you think about Paul's personal account in Romans ch 6, ch 7. I challenge anyone to say they love God "enough". Even if you consider the letters to the churches of Revelation. Jesus has correction for all but one of the 1st Century Church.
I could be wrong. But, I see this as a pursuit, not as an accomplishment.
Further, one person's love for God may look weak, but they have endured great hardship and loss to get there. Whereas another's may look strong, but they have seen no trials to endure. God is the judge and not we ourselves; neither of ourselves nor of others. What appears to be "all" for one, may be very different for another.
I look back on nearly 30 years a believer. I've failed terribly at times. Other times, I see how God has grown me. To Him be all the glory. I have never loved Him "enough". Yet, at the time, I felt I was loving God with all my heart, soul, mind, strength.
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